urgent advice needed

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cellie

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We have new horse owner on our yard who has just purchased cob for her granddaughter.The horse was vetted but didnt have a passport .The dealers supplied the passport and he was aged at 9/10 years.
We all had the equine dentist out today .He has aged the horse at 21years.They have had him 3 weeks and are devasted.The good news is that they have month trial but I cant see the dealers honouring the trail period.There was nothing else that was suitable and they paid £3500.
The granddaughter is only 10 so they were looking for long term and wanted to start pc club etc.
Does anyone have any legal advice I could pass on .She knows shes made a terrible mistake and we all told her not to buy without passport ..I think her first visit should be to citizens advice and the vet that did the original vetting.Any other advice I could pass on would be really helpful.
Thanks everyone
 
[ QUOTE ]
Surely the vet would have noticed he was that old at the vetting?

[/ QUOTE ]

Took the words right out of my mouth!
grin.gif
 
The first point of contact would be to speak to you local trading standards office - you should find the number in the local phone book.

They will be able to advise as the vendor has sold something that is not as described.

They will have to explain the impact of the horse being double the age it should be to TS though - as they're unlikely to be horsey!?
 
He wasnt our vet who we all trust .I have advised her to ring him.The dentist is very experienced horseman and highly qualified he didnt want to give a opinion they really had to press him.Really difficult situation.
 
My first port of call would be the vets who did the vetting!!! They sholudn't be making that kind of mistake....
 
Why wouldnt he want to give an opinion? He would be helping!!

Also has anyone actually contacted the dealer and asked if they will have this cob back, as agreed in the months trial period?
 
does the age matter? if the horse is brilliant in every other way?
i had a tb that cribbed when i was looking to lease him out a lady and her friends had a go at me telling me he was at least 10 years older than i had said. he was registered and branded so i told her to go look him up. she rang me back and appologised!
 
In a vetting the vet usually asks the age then checks teeth. I would not have thought they could be over 10years out. You should have some comeback on that?

I would certainly get a 2nd opinion from another dentist before persuing this further. Everyone can make mistakes.

If the horse is on a trial then surley they can send it back? Or have I missed something here?
 
No you havent missed anything.Just spoken to new owner she has looked at vetting slip and the vet has marked that the horse is older than 10years as described.Two to five years wouldnt have made to much difference but they compared his teeth to the other horse on our yard who is 26 and the teeth were at the same stage.I have advised her to get another vets opinion speak to trading standards first and ask previous owner to share cost of second opinion or have horse back before trial finishes.
Trouble is no dealer is going to happy having horse returned.
 
Trading Standards.

It could be questionable about the vetting as it's only a cursory check of the teath that are made.
 
I think it matters if you are sold horse as 10 year old and he is 21.It matters that the young girl might only have few years and hes not capable of what she bought him for.I feel the passport was made up to suit requirement of potential buyer.They paid £3500 for a horse that wont be able to do what they bought him for.Hes a nice horse and gentle what they are concerned about is they might have to retire him after a few years plus its harsh on a horse expecting it to do what a horse of 10 would happily do.They also sold him as green as in not done much I think they must get another opinion.I understand what you are saying but a lease is different to buying a horse for long term use and paying premium price.
 
Just trying to get as many facts as possible before they make the call.Knowing your right s really helps in this sort of situation.We have a broken hearted young girl who loves her new horse.They might try and get price adjusted because they really like him already.
 
21 seems a bizarrely and impossibly precise age to arrive at. It is very difficult to age a mature horse. I would get your vets opinion, but it is likely that you will never really know.
 
The passport cannot 100% verify the animals age unless it was sold as a pedigree pony and the breed papers were part of the passport. The onus was on the vet to verify the age of the horse. If these people are that naive maybe they did not have it vetted independently and actually bought it "with a vet certificate".
 
Agreed. I applied for passports for all mine (including one I was given WAY after the deadline, as I knew the previous owner, so knew he wasn't stolen). No questions are asked. You can supply any age you want - doesn't matter! If the vet has put down 'older than specified', then I'm not sure you have come-back on him. Once the Galvine's groove has grown down, too much depends on diet/management. My shettie is 30 something, but the dentist was very impressed with his teeth - aside from uneven wear at the back, he apparently has the teeth of a 20 something. I'd be persuing the dealer and demanding that they honour their trial period.
 
To be honest, even if he is 21, he is a first pony and will be a good safe rode for a 10 year old. I know a horse who is a the peak of fitness and about to do cross country at the age of 23! I also used to share a horse who was 18 and he was amazing! Wasn't showing his age at all!
 
Trouble is if he has no proven track record for pc etc if he isnt suitable then they have just wasted alot of money.The idea was to buy a horse of about ten to keep and work on.Hopefully they can get some money back at the moment I agree he is very suited to her needs ,safety first.
Ill keep you all posted Thanks for all the advice .
 
If the horse is in fact a little pony 12 - 13 hands say then yes, we all know of fabulous little ponies that race around gallop and jump until they are in their late 20s but they said cob didn't they?
21 is very old for £3500, and most vets and equine dentists should be able to recognise the teeth of a horse past his mid teens.
The purchasers should do everything to get a refund from the dealer, as I am sure the dealer would be fairly proficient in telling the age of a horse. After all it is their bread and butter.

But in all of this lets not forget the plight of this poor old horse. Without wishing to be sentimental, lets hope that some consideration will be given to the animal and that he is not just dumped back to the dealer and probably sold off to the meat man, cos that is what often happens.

I made the very same mistake, buying an old sick horse from a very dodgy dealer now forced to cease trading and publicised in Horse & Hound last year. I refused to exchange him for another horse from the dealer because
A, it would have probably been just as much of a disaster as the first, but in a different way, and
B, I felt it was partly my duty to be responsible for the horse that I had bought and try to do the best for him.

I lost £2800 on the purchase price and incurred a vet bill of £800 for the horse, but eventually found a friend who was willing to take him on and give him a good home.

Horses purchasing is a risky business, we all come a cropper at sometime, in someway.

Lets not forget that we come into this as horse lovers first and foremost.

Good luck
 
are you sure that its not just that he's never had his teeth seen to before? My 15 year old has had his teeth done every 6 months since he was 7, we have recently moved stables three times in three years so have had a new dentist each time, as I'm often not there when he gets his teeth done they write everything on their little dental card things, well he's been "8 years old" for the last four years according to them! and they are all registered and highly professional, so sometimes teeth can't always correctly reflect age!
 
All I can say is he is very experienced he has his own horses and has been in the trade a long time.
The independent vetting said that the horse was older than the ten years reg on passport but being niave she thought by 2/3 years which wasnt a problem.If its closer to 10 years out this is a different scenario.
I know its all a opinion she just needs some good advice.
She has also paid a lot of money out for all his equipment new rugs back lady dentist etc.
What worried me initially is that the new owner went to the dealer and told her exactly what she wanted ie. 10 years cob type and they found something to fit the bill but didnt have a passport.We all told her not to buy without one .
The advice she has know been given by trading standards is to send a registered letter explaining all her concerns re age.That gives dealer a chance to explain reply etc.She is entitled to her money back as she has months trial.I suggested that she could make a more reasonable offer on the horse one that is more suitable to his age I felt she paid well over the odds.Safety is a major issue and he seems ideal on that front .The granddaughter could have a few years really improving her skills with him its quite sad as he is a lovely boy.I hope they keep him but for the right price.
 
I share a 28 year old and providing you give her time to loosen up will quite happily tackle the x country course at the yard. Although saying that none of them fences are above 3ft (at least I hope they ain't lol)
 
if safety is their main concern for this ten year old girl then does it matter what they paid if the horse is safe? say for arguments they want £1,000 off is the 10 year olds safety worth it? how many people have either had the wrong first horse or spent years looking. sounds like they've found a good one. agree with elllies mum2 i have ridden a few over 20s who had much more buzz than the younger ones. sorry if i am ranting just seems silly if they feel done over on his age.....could have been a lot worse.
 
I can understand where people are coming from about the age not being a problem but £3500 for a 20 odd year old horse is a lot of money plus if the dealer had lied about the horses age then what else have they lied about that won't show up until the horse is in hard work. I would take the horse straight back they only have a week till the trial is over - 1 day over and the dealer will wash his hands!!!
 
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