URGENT HELP!!! GET MY PUPPY HOME

twiggy2

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 July 2013
Messages
9,743
Location
Highlands from Essex
Often when animals are signed over to the care of the vets the animals are then homes through a rescue centre the vets already work with, some go to staff or family of staff.
IME animals are signed over and the bills are then swallowed by the practice, even a large cooperate I worked at did this.
At the end of the day etc are not charities to subsidise pet ownership.
A fold in the intestines is an emergency and requires emergency surgery so if suspected need swift action and time is of the essence so there is no time to allow an owner to source funds.
As others have sadi the OP has stated they had funds but these funds were allocated to a mortgage, I don't judge anyone for how much they want to use their money but a choice was made by the ow er not to use those funds but they are expecting a business to take them on their word that they will pay over time, if the money is there why should the vets wait to be paid whilst a house purchase goes ahead for the person wanting to owe them money?
 

Rowreach

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
13,041
Location
Northern Ireland
Out of interest, how many of you totally put together, never made a misjudgement in your lives people have taken ownership of a horse on the basis of a successful vetting, and then arranged the insurance (which requires the vet cert) and spent the next 14 days praying it doesn't self destruct in the field?
 

paisley

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 August 2005
Messages
750
Its obviously a very distressing and unfortunate situation and my sympathies, as the day I got my pup he managed to smack his face into a bush and get a tiny cut on his eyelid. Cue 14 days of crossed fingers and daily saline eye washes before insurance kicked in
However, the veterinary business is struggling on an unprecedented scale. Dealing with the sheer volume of clients and keeping over worked staff is only part of it.
Its not fair to expect the whimsical 'James Herriot' approach nor is it fair to regard veterinary practices as the animal version of the NHS. From what I can gather, the pup was treated (thus fulfilling the emergency to alleviate suffering clause and duty of care), and the practice would like to be paid. Emotions regarding a pet are totally understandable (talking as someone who cried their eyes out for about a week waiting on the whippets negative biopsy result) but there needs to be a serious shift in current attitude towards vets and the services they provide.
 

Pearlsasinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
36,014
Location
W. Yorks
Out of interest, how many of you totally put together, never made a misjudgement in your lives people have taken ownership of a horse on the basis of a successful vetting, and then arranged the insurance (which requires the vet cert) and spent the next 14 days praying it doesn't self destruct in the field?


I have made plenty of misjudgements over the years but never the particular one that you cite. I have never had a horse vetted (with no regrets) and always self-insured. Neither have I ever had to ask a vet to subsidise my pet-owning. I have robbed Peter to pay Paul, many a time, however and if I had been in OP's position I would have used the mortgage deposit to pay the vet bill, without a 2nd thought.
 

Rowreach

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
13,041
Location
Northern Ireland
I have made plenty of misjudgements over the years but never the particular one that you cite. I have never had a horse vetted (with no regrets) and always self-insured. Neither have I ever had to ask a vet to subsidise my pet-owning. I have robbed Peter to pay Paul, many a time, however and if I had been in OP's position I would have used the mortgage deposit to pay the vet bill, without a 2nd thought.
You’re in a position to do that, so am I, we are fortunate. I don’t personally think that precludes everyone else from ever owning an animal, nor does it mean that some of the comments on here towards the OP have been entirely fair.

Upthread they explained the situation regarding their house purchase and why there’s no deposit money.

I think a lot of posters are missing the point of the thread and giving the OP an unnecessarily hard time. A couple (Mrs Jingle and Red1 in particular) have at least provided practical and sensible advice, and actually read what was written instead of the usual jumping to assumptions that some people did.
 

Pearlsasinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
36,014
Location
W. Yorks
You’re in a position to do that, so am I, we are fortunate. I don’t personally think that precludes everyone else from ever owning an animal, nor does it mean that some of the comments on here towards the OP have been entirely fair.

Upthread they explained the situation regarding their house purchase and why there’s no deposit money.

I think a lot of posters are missing the point of the thread and giving the OP an unnecessarily hard time. A couple (Mrs Jingle and Red1 in particular) have at least provided practical and sensible advice, and actually read what was written instead of the usual jumping to assumptions that some people did.

I think it is a question of priorities, personally. My priority would have been to pay the vet bill and if I were able to find £100 per week, I would have used that to replace the 'borrowed' deposit, rather than agreeing to sign over the pup in a panic. I am not certain that the vet practice has come out of this episode well though, it does sound that OP was pressured into signing the pup over. But then, I am not convinced that this particular pup and vet practice exist, either.
 

Quigleyandme

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 March 2018
Messages
1,296
Location
County Sligo
I’m not usually one to stick my neck out here for fear of a metaphorical karate chop to the throat and I’m not vet bashing in any way, shape or form. My son and DiL are both vets but he is with the army and she is farm. I have thought about it at length but I still feel very uncomfortable with the Judgment of Solomon thing that was played out here. I also don’t understand why small animal vet fees in the UK are so astronomically high. You can’t insure an equine here in Ireland and I actually have no idea if you can buy pet insurance but my elderly farm mog had an emergency visit to the vet last week. He was sedated, examined, swabbed, given a long acting antibiotic and a long acting steroid and the bill was €66. The follow up visit yesterday was FOC. This is an up-to-date, very professional, multi-disciplinary practice but somehow they manage to do their jobs and make a decent living without charging in the mid to high three figures for an ultrasound and bloods.
 

twiggy2

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 July 2013
Messages
9,743
Location
Highlands from Essex
Out of interest, how many of you totally put together, never made a misjudgement in your lives people have taken ownership of a horse on the basis of a successful vetting, and then arranged the insurance (which requires the vet cert) and spent the next 14 days praying it doesn't self destruct in the field?
I have made many misjudgements, never had a horse vetted or insured, same for all my pets, that said if I do not wish to afford a given treatment I would have an animal PTS, the OP had a pot of money to draw on and chose to use it on something other than the puppy (not judging its OP's choice and nothing to do with me) the vet bashing is unfair though, at the time if the vets had not offered the opportunity to sign the puppy over it would be a dead puppy.
 

teddypops

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 March 2008
Messages
2,174
They have said that if you pay the bill in full you can have the puppy back. That’s what you have to do then. I wouldn’t expect a vet who doesn’t know you to wave you and your dog off into the distance trusting that you - a stranger to them - will pay the remainder of the bill. Having worked in a vets, there are so many people who think it’s ok to not pay a bill, then never be heard from again.
 

smiggy

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 February 2008
Messages
567
Ok, look at this from the vets point of view.
you present them with an animal needing expensive emergency surgery or euthanasia on humane grounds. There is no time to dither at this point .
you categorically say you can’t pay.
they try and find a solution, ie sign dog over and we pay , and bear in mind they will be doing this because some soft hearted member of staff can’t bear to see it euthanased, not because they want your dog.
you agree to sign dog over
they fix dog
you change your mind and want him back
they say , no problem, here’s the bill and hey lucky you , it’s less than we thought, just pay bill and collect dog.
you say, oh no , actually I still can’t pay bill but want dog back or I’m going to kick up a fuss, cause you of dog napping and report you

at what point is the vet the unreasonable one ?
bear in mind, dog would otherwise be dead .
 

honetpot

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2010
Messages
7,165
Location
Cambridgeshire
My friend who's cat was involved in an RTA couldn't afford the bill, so signed the cat over, and it died after surgery. It may seem unfair, but the vet is providing a service, if the dog had died, would the now ex owner still want to pay the bill, and would they still think they had been pressured?
I find most small animal vets very fair, I took a stray which was ill to the vet and it had to be euthanised, which I was happy to pay for, and they waved the fee. Just disposing of the body costs money, how many cats end up at the vets to be scanned after being found on the road, and they have to pay for disposal.
When any animal has a medical emergency it's a pressured situation, and most horse owners have to make their minds up quickly what's best for the animal, and what is best for them. With horses there is not usually the option of signing over in return for treatment, you can either afford the treatment, or the insurance will pay or it's euthanised. I have had to do this, it is of course stressful, but that's the downside of taking on the responsibility of animals
 

Lipglosspukka

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 November 2020
Messages
520
My friend who's cat was involved in an RTA couldn't afford the bill, so signed the cat over, and it died after surgery. It may seem unfair, but the vet is providing a service, if the dog had died, would the now ex owner still want to pay the bill, and would they still think they had been pressured?
This is spot on.
 

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
6,705
Out of interest, how many of you totally put together, never made a misjudgement in your lives people have taken ownership of a horse on the basis of a successful vetting, and then arranged the insurance (which requires the vet cert) and spent the next 14 days praying it doesn't self destruct in the field?
I was a complete numpty. I got my dates wrong with the initial 3-month for accidental injury only thing and started a claim for lameness one day before the 3 month limit was up. Needless to say the insurance wouldn’t pay (quite rightly, my stupid fault) and I was lumbered with a £2k bill the week before Christmas. You live and learn, as they say!
 

Rowreach

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 May 2007
Messages
13,041
Location
Northern Ireland
Ok, look at this from the vets point of view.
you present them with an animal needing expensive emergency surgery or euthanasia on humane grounds. There is no time to dither at this point .
you categorically say you can’t pay.
they try and find a solution, ie sign dog over and we pay , and bear in mind they will be doing this because some soft hearted member of staff can’t bear to see it euthanased, not because they want your dog.
you agree to sign dog over
they fix dog
you change your mind and want him back
they say , no problem, here’s the bill and hey lucky you , it’s less than we thought, just pay bill and collect dog.
you say, oh no , actually I still can’t pay bill but want dog back or I’m going to kick up a fuss, cause you of dog napping and report you

at what point is the vet the unreasonable one ?
bear in mind, dog would otherwise be dead .
A couple of posters have managed to say all that and still managed to show a bit of understanding at the same time ...
 

Lipglosspukka

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 November 2020
Messages
520
Ok, look at this from the vets point of view.
you present them with an animal needing expensive emergency surgery or euthanasia on humane grounds. There is no time to dither at this point .
you categorically say you can’t pay.
they try and find a solution, ie sign dog over and we pay , and bear in mind they will be doing this because some soft hearted member of staff can’t bear to see it euthanased, not because they want your dog.
you agree to sign dog over
they fix dog
you change your mind and want him back
they say , no problem, here’s the bill and hey lucky you , it’s less than we thought, just pay bill and collect dog.
you say, oh no , actually I still can’t pay bill but want dog back or I’m going to kick up a fuss, cause you of dog napping and report you

at what point is the vet the unreasonable one ?
bear in mind, dog would otherwise be dead .
I don't think your post is unkind. It's just matter of fact.

The poster had had this puppy for two days. She can't have been that attached to it anyway 🤷🏼‍♀️
 

Equi

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2010
Messages
11,965
Location
Mini land
Think op is getting way more agro than is really necessary. Insurance wouldn’t have kicked in and this is a totally random thing to happen, no one expects for this to happen two days after getting the pup. In an ideal world we would all have 10k sitting in the bank for things like this but that’s not reality. I don’t think vets should have the right to demand death or ownership it feels unethical, I do understand they can’t do treatment without knowing if it can be paid for (a vet refused to come to my mare with horrible foal stuck distocia without payment upfront) but the fact the owner was not even there and they only did this via the phone sits off with me.

I think it’s a very unfair comment to say they only had it two days so can’t have card about it - we all know how important our animals are to us from the second we get them.

I don’t know what the solution is if you can’t provide full payment immediately (and sounds like the vet is done with you so might not even accept that now) but it’s all a very sad affair and upsetting for all.
 

twiggy2

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 July 2013
Messages
9,743
Location
Highlands from Essex
Think op is getting way more agro than is really necessary. Insurance wouldn’t have kicked in and this is a totally random thing to happen, no one expects for this to happen two days after getting the pup. In an ideal world we would all have 10k sitting in the bank for things like this but that’s not reality. I don’t think vets should have the right to demand death or ownership it feels unethical, I do understand they can’t do treatment without knowing if it can be paid for (a vet refused to come to my mare with horrible foal stuck distocia without payment upfront) but the fact the owner was not even there and they only did this via the phone sits off with me.

I think it’s a very unfair comment to say they only had it two days so can’t have card about it - we all know how important our animals are to us from the second we get them.

I don’t know what the solution is if you can’t provide full payment immediately (and sounds like the vet is done with you so might not even accept that now) but it’s all a very sad affair and upsetting for all.
The thing is the owner has said they did/do have the money but it is allocated to a mortgage!
What would you like vets to say in a life or death emergency when an animal is suffering?
 

YorksG

Over the hill and far awa
Joined
14 September 2006
Messages
14,340
Location
West Yorkshire
I have to say that the thread title raised my hackles somewhat. I can imagine that if the thread had gone a different way, there would have been a plea for help in raising the money to pay the vet bill.
That was my thought as well, I believe the next would have been crowd funding, if the responses had been different....
 

ester

Not slacking-multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
56,578
Location
Cambridge
The vets are really pretty stuck between a rock and hard place. If they treated in these circumstances without getting the animal signed over people would have that expectation of not needing to pay for vets fees. The few I've known in similar situations have just been pleased that there has been an alternative for the animal rather than to PTS to end suffering.

Arguably they could insist that the animal gets signed over to a charity that will pay for treatment but given that these are often emergency cases I suspect that wouldn't be practical.
 

Pearlsasinger

Well-Known Member
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
36,014
Location
W. Yorks
RR, I think you must have missed this post


Credit card/ loan isn’t an option at present as in the process of getting accepted for a mortgage and been told not to apply for any credit (not that that is any of your business) and before you say well what’s more important your dog or a mortgage ect ect I don’t have some huge deposit saved which I could of dipped into I’m doing a first time buyer scheme.

1st time buyer schemes all appear to need a minimum 5% deposit, which in some schemes the gvt will match. I cannot find any 100% mortgage schemes for 1st time buyers.
 

Lipglosspukka

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 November 2020
Messages
520
RR, I think you must have missed this post





1st time buyer schemes all appear to need a minimum 5% deposit, which in some schemes the gvt will match. I cannot find any 100% mortgage schemes for 1st time buyers.
Plus credit card or loan ARE an option. They are just chosing not to take it as getting a mortgage is their priority.
 

Boulty

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 April 2011
Messages
1,322
My personal thoughts on this are that anyone taking on an animal of any sort should have a cushion for if / when things go wrong be that on day 1 or 10 years down the road. Even if the animal is insured / planned to be as there is always a cooling off period when starting insurance & then there's random exclusions, excesses & things it turns out they don't cover.

Ideally these days that should probably be upwards of £1k (not necessarily sat in the bank as a low or no interest credit card would do the job as long as the repayments would be affordable). If someone takes an animal on knowing they can't raise the money for a vet bill if something goes wrong then there is the possibility they will have some hard choices to make at some point in that animals life. Euthanasia is a very sad & unfortunate thing for all the humans involved when it is for financial reasons but it is not a welfare issue for the animal when it is giving them an end to their pain in the only way their owner is able to.
 
Last edited:
Top