Urgent help needed am i mad sad or bad?

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Trinity Fox

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Need some advice as my head is done in i am selling one of my horses lovely boy does a bit of everthing Warmblood can be forward in company but a real sweetie, does wear nose net ... now here is the thing he has been up for sale for 10 days after having to put off all manner of people coming to see him who were just not suitable i have had three viewings the first woman was going to have him vetted but then didnt get back in touch, the second viewer made an offer that i turned down as i didnt like her she was really not very nice to the horse and niggled him all the time.

Now i have had a couple look at him and say they would like to have him vetted and would pay asking price now something is putting me off selling him at the viewing they were very nice slightly older and i am worried he will be too much for them in company he doesnt do anything nasty but keen and can prance and i have also explained he can have a wimpy moment when hacking on his own nothing major just a stop for a second or a couple of steps back, they say they have ridden forward horses in past but she asked a couple of times if he is ok to hack and i explained what he was like her asking more than once made me think is she a bit unsure.

Also they want to mostly keep him out rugged will not clip in winter but will ride, now i have to clip as they get so sweaty and it takes them so long to dry i dont think its suitable to keep them out and exercise unclipped, there is a stable for extreme weather but they dont want to use all the time.
I guess my biggest fear is that it wont work out and they choose to sell him on without offering him back to me, are these niggling doubts me being silly i have been told i am crazy for turning down buyers and i am aware may have to wait a long time for another, i dont know if i am letting the fact they wouldnt be keeping him how i would sway me and i do get the impression they may not consult me if it doesnt work out. what i really want is a buyer who i think is perfect for him he is such a lovely boy but am i being unrealistic
If you made it this far you have permission to whack me for being such a saddo and believe it or not this horse was never bough to keep forever, please help before my head explodes.:confused:
 
It sounds like a good home which is a positive. Also they have been upfront about how he will be kept. I sold a horse a few years ago to someone who promised a life long home and said they would be getting plenty of training with the horse and had had a medium level dressage horse before. A few weeks later I saw an ad as she was selling him on. It turned out she couldn't manage him and was not getting the help she had said she would. It was very upsetting but of course out of my control.
I think what I am saying is that when an animal has been sold it is not ours anymore and sadly we cannot influence what happens. This couple do sound genuine so if you actually liked them I would go ahead.
 
Like the others say, invite them over to ride him more, then you can see if they get on ok on a hack. Re the clipping, that may be what they intend to do, but when they see him sweat up they may change their minds and give him a clip. Though of course they may not. At least they have been open with you about their plans - they could have just lied through their teeth! With selling him unfortunatly you just need to be able to cope with someone else taking the decisions on what they think is best for him.
If you are happy that they will offer a nice home, they are nice people, and they have offered asking price - take their offer! You only need to go through a couple of pages of this forum to realise that it is a buyers market, esp with winter worries about hay, credit crunch etc.
Of course, if you have big worries (not last minute nerves) then you don't have to sell him to them. But you need to consider how likely it is that the perfect people will come along. A decision only you can make. Lots of luck.
 
I think you are being silly personally!

They bsound like lovely people, just because they are older doesn't mean they can't ride! They may have years of experience and due to that probably know what horses are capable off and just want to watch they aren't buying a dodgy one!

With regards him living out, most horses love this, I would be much happier to sell a horse to someone who wanted them to live out then someone who wanted him to be stabled all the time. They say there is shelter available so it's not like they will force him to be out all the time even when weather's appauling/extremely cold etc (although to be honest once he's used to living out he probably won't care about the weather etc). Horses are alot tougher than we give them credit for!

Also with clipping there is no rule that horses in work MUST be clipped in winter, many manage fine without and especially if he's living out it will be better for him to have a coat. Maybe they don't plan to work him that hard in winter? You can get wicking turnout rugs now which are very good if a horse does get sweaty from being ridden before turnout.

I would maybe ask them a few more questions about how they plan to keep him. But try not to be too condecending/patronising, they may know more than you do! Don't put them off by being too precious about your horse, he is a horse afterall! Obviously don't sell him to someone completely unsuitable but if your only issue is management differences then I think you need to be more open-minded.
 
If you don't want to sell them the horse, just tell them and move on. Definitely suggest they hack the horse out before going forward with the deal and reiterate that he is not a "bombproof" ride in those circumstances. You don't have to offend them by saying you think they aren't suitable, just say you're fond of the horse and want to make sure everyone is happy with the situation.

If you genuinely feel he will not be suitable for their management options, then tell them that. As far as a horse working unclipped, some people do do it successfully. If it's not for you, great, but it's not really a seller's place to tell a buyer to change their situation for the horse, so long as you've been honest with them as they've been honest for you. How many people on here would take that sort of thing well if they were on the other side of it?

As far as making sure they contact you if they resell, it's a reality of life you cannot guarantee that. If you want, you can draw up a contract saying you will take the horse back for a refund within such and such a time but if they horse is theirs, it's theirs to do with as they wish.

To be honest, they do sound like nice straight forward people. If you don't think they're right for the horse, tell them. They should thank you for it and it should make you feel better. But be aware, if you do that sort of thing to often, you can get a rep for being a "difficult" seller and it will definitely slow down the process. It can also backfire and make people MORE determined to have the horse, so just be on guard for that.
 
Could they get away with a trace clip, or maybe a blanket clip? That way he could live out with rugs but get less sweaty. There are many ways to manage a horse, and not just one right and one wrong way.

Re them asking more than once - people can express themselves in very different ways when describing horse behaviour - one persons angelic hacker is another persons total nutter - so I'd take it as a positive that they are asking for clarification. Agree with Clippy, get them to hack the horse, then everyone will know one way or the other.
 
Its not so much that they wont clip him its the fact they seem convinced that you can work an unclipped horse in winter and let it live out, and this is just not the case they take so long to dry and rugging up a damp or wet horse can lead to all sorts of problems. As for the hacking out i had another horse there and tried to encourage them to go out on a hack but they didnt want to he doesnt do anything drastic even on his own that an experienced rider couldnt deal with.
I guess i am worrying they should know enough to know about the clipping living out rugging thing, i would of course have to insist they come and hack him but even that makes me think on of two things are they only going to school him i dont want this for him he came from a home like that and loves a good blast of a gallop every now and again, and surely you would know before buying a horse you need to see it hack out, saying that the people who have been to see him have all only really wanted to school him in the field rather than go out on him.
I do need to find him a home as i have a youngster to bring on one to break well i have another seven as well as him but i am not under financial pressure and have ample grazing stables so could hunt him this winter but really that is just putting it off i am such a worrier when it comes to things like this the last horse i sold a couple of years ago i found a great buyer who i clicked with and thought was right straight away oh well just have to think about it.:confused:
 
Quick... someone had better rescue my mare from my evil clutches! :eek:

I never clip her in the winter, she lives out, I rug her and yes... I ride her and sometimes she gets sweaty! :p
 
Trinity Fox said:
Its not so much that they wont clip him its the fact they seem convinced that you can work an unclipped horse in winter and let it live out, and this is just not the case they take so long to dry and rugging up a damp or wet horse can lead to all sorts of problems. As for the hacking out i had another horse there and tried to encourage them to go out on a hack but they didnt want to he doesnt do anything drastic even on his own that an experienced rider couldnt deal with.
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You can have a horse living out, rugged, unclipped, and manage them safely if they come home sweaty. Their experience is obviously different to yours, but they could well know how to deal with this scenario. So I wouldn't worry about that too much, and really I think that's a small worry when you consider all the things that can happen to a horse.
Just because they are older, it doesn't mean they aren't up to riding him. However, I would insist that they hack him out before you agree to them having him vetted. If necessary remind them gently that selling and buying horses is a two-way process and you have to assure yourself that he is suitable for them, as you won't be able to take him back if that isn't the case.
It's hard, but when you sell a horse you can't guarantee their future, you can only do your best to match them with the right new owner. I don't think the lady I brought my horse from expected that he was going to a "happy hacking, wierd NH-nutcase" home. He was qualified for all sorts of things. However, I think we're the perfect match for each other and he's happy as Larry bimbling through the woods and doing non-competetive things. So if she'd decided not to sell to me because my plans weren't what she might have done with him, that would have been very sad.
 
In reply to i think it was AllySmalice i think i have come across as a bit of a fluffybunny all my horses are turned out full time summer, my natives not clipped and live out all winter with access to big barn those in full work clipped but out every day all day whatever the weather in at night so i keep out as much as possible and they all live in one big herd.

Partly i was asking advice as it seems so strange to me to not even want to hack out a horse you were buying but maybe thats just me i have to say i dont think because you are older you cant ride my dad has been riding in point to points since his forties and should be this year if he is enough recovered form an operation he has just had and is 71 this year but he is mad anyway was just trying to pick your brains as i am struggling a bit but i am not silly about it if you know what i mean, i am i guess a bit soft compared to some as far as doing the right thing by them and wanting a happy ending but that is just me maybe i need to harden up but thankyou for all your views its good to hear others opinions.:)
 
I think that you should calm down a little :), seriously, they sound like decent people but you should insist that they ride him while you're there first, even just for your own peace of mind.

Remember that while you referred to galloping and getting sweaty while hacking, and going hunting (with you riding), they might just want to walk and steady trot in the winter (they might not even have access to bridle paths etc. and won't necessarily ride any more than once a week), so the horse probably wouldn't sweat much, so a full coat should be fine as with many other happy hackers.

Good luck! I'm sure everything will work out.
 
If they're older people they will be perfectly familiar with unclipped horses being ridden during the winter and managed perfectly successfully living out - and that's without the vastly improved rugs we have today.

however if you're not happy that they will be able to ride him then get them to hack him out again - or tell them you're not happy with them as a home and look for another buyer. At least these ones have been honest with you. The next ones you get along, when you tell them that you wouldn't sell to someone because you didn't like the way they were going to look after him, might ask how you want him managed, agree with you 100%, buy him at a reduced price because they are so perfect and then laugh themselves sick as they chuck him out in the field, unclipped, sweaty and rugged.
 
It sounds to me as though you want to maintain a degree of control over the management of this horse. Sadly when you sell something as expensive and long-lived as a horse that is unlikely to be the case for its whole life.

If you want to ensure the horse is managed the way you'd want you should consider sharing or loaning. Any new owner, however ideal they may seem might have a change of circumstances which forced them to sell/change training methods and so forth.

If *you* really have to sell you're going to have to accept that you can only take a few reasonable precautions. :-( Go with gut instinct and advice from here.

That might sound harsh but I'm in a similar position with regard to wishing I could change how the owner of the horse I ride keeps him. If I had the money to buy and keep him I would, as it is is I'm not the owner and therefor don't have rights (but am solvent!). Sad but necessary compromises.
 
And in reply to FARACAT i am sure you are well aware if the horse doesnt get dried off properly before its rugged its a good way to get a nice bacterial infection and a nice scabby back i am trying to get unbiased advice and i know all about rugging living out clipping or not, but in my poinion if you are going to really work a horse in winter you really need to clip or you only need to plie in more feed in beacuse of weight loss caused by excessive sweating i mean lets face it all hunters racehorses and horses ridden alot in winter are usually clipped for a reason i am not saying you cant mange a horse in other ways so really there is no need for you to state the obvious in a rather sarcastic way, after reading all the horror stories about horses being misold to unsuitable homes i hardly think i am in need of sarcastic comments beacuse i want to air a few concerns i was under the impression that was what this forum is for please correct me if i am wrong i just want to try and make everyone happy the buyers as well as me and the horse i am not a silly person but do think if more people considered everything and any concerns before selling a horse they wouldnt be so many stories even on this forum about buyers being so badly let down. Sorry for the long rant.
 
Calm down. You are speaking from your experience and knowledge re the rugging thing, it's just that there are ways of managing this that you are obviously not aware of. With modern rugs and good management it's quite simple to cool and dry off an unclipped horse after work and still have them living in a field. I wish they did lose a bit of weight, but sadly my fatties (including the Arab) tell a different story.
I think the thing that would most worry me is the fact that they are refusing to hack him out. I would not sell him to them if they won't do that, because you don't want to be the next one here saying "buyers are calling my horse dangerous and threatening to sue if I don't refund". So you're being very sensible on that.
 
Ah thanks Tinypony i know i probably sound like a nutter and i dont wrap my horses up in cotton wool but after reading the horror stories on this forum about the purchase of new horses going horribly wrong i just want to be sure and was just chucking my ideas about,
I would hate for anyone to be unhappy after they had bought my horse or for horse to end up in wrong place i am not one of these dimwits who think they are the only one who can look after a horse but alot of horse purchases go wrong and i just dont want that to happen i do not want to be involved or interfere once he has gone just want to make sure everything is right before that happens and be there to help if it is needed.
By the way when you write down all your concerns about it looks alot worse on paper than it is and i am not that insane really.:eek:
 
Trinity Fox said:
And in reply to FARACAT i am sure you are well aware if the horse doesnt get dried off properly before its rugged its a good way to get a nice bacterial infection and a nice scabby back i am trying to get unbiased advice and i know all about rugging living out clipping or not, but in my poinion if you are going to really work a horse in winter you really need to clip or you only need to plie in more feed in beacuse of weight loss caused by excessive sweating i mean lets face it all hunters racehorses and horses ridden alot in winter are usually clipped for a reason i am not saying you cant mange a horse in other ways so really there is no need for you to state the obvious in a rather sarcastic way, after reading all the horror stories about horses being misold to unsuitable homes i hardly think i am in need of sarcastic comments beacuse i want to air a few concerns i was under the impression that was what this forum is for please correct me if i am wrong i just want to try and make everyone happy the buyers as well as me and the horse i am not a silly person but do think if more people considered everything and any concerns before selling a horse they wouldnt be so many stories even on this forum about buyers being so badly let down. Sorry for the long rant.
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I really did not intend to upset you. However I tried to put my point across in a lighthearted way. OK, I failed, but my point stands- it is possible to work a rugged horse in winter (unclipped) and not give it 'a nice bacterial infection and a nice scabby back'. I've owned said mare for years and she's never been clipped and with good management it's never been a problem. I'm sure that others (possibly including your potential buyers) manage it too.
 
Honestly Faracat i am not upset maybe i am bad at putting my point across i know you can manage a horse in nearly any situation, but they sort of kept saying that the horses they have had didnt sweat enough to have to worry about all this now i find it hard to believe any horse doesnt sweat at all if worked in winter now granted maybe we do harder work than some but when they get really sweaty they have to dry off first before rugging, and the not riding out before buying is concerning me now i am going to get a tin hat before i tell you this i have on more than one ocassion bought horses without riding first and the seller is usually selling this way for a reason.
I do not want to do this as i have nothing to hide and dont think its a responsible way to sell a horse and he is such a nice boy i want the best for him i have sold before so am not being a complete loon but i do find it stressful.
And as i said when you look at all your concerns written down it does look a bit fruit loop although i do feel like i am starting to develop a tick down to this ha ha and i mean the twitch type of tick not the bloodsucking type, you see i am getting better at explaining myself already and even if i seem a bit irate at times i am not easily upset or offended so dont worry but thanks for replying to my rant.:o
 
Yep, I think there was a bit of misunderstanding there. I dry mine down using a cooler rug and a breathable outdoor rug, like a Fal, on the top. After maybe 20 mins I can take the cooler out and they will be nearly dry, they finish off nicely under the breathable rug and all is fine. I even rug horses that have been soaked in the rain, thanks to modern technology. LOL!
That's not the main point of the thread though is it? Hope you manage to get it sorted so you don't feel worried Trinity Fox. If the buyers refuse to try your horse in any way, personally I'd be noting that on the receipt. "Buyers declined the opportunity to hack horse away from the yard".
 
Maybe you're just worried about finding the best home possible for your boy? I really hope that you do find the right home for him regardless of whether it's this couple or someone else. :)
 
I was only joking about the tick dont want you to think of me looking all twitchy as well as being a loon ha ha, yeah, its always a worry although i probably look in to things a bit much i am sure it will all work out in the end thanks for all advice it does go in.
 
I don't think anyone thinks you're insane ;), just that you're concerned about where the horse ends up and don't want to have a situation where it all goes wrong in a couple of months, if you can help it.

The hacking thing is one issue. It's a bit of a red flag they say they want to hack yet you're implying that they've actually REFUSED to hack the horse out before buying. That does seem odd. Make the offer again, explain that you just want to be really sure they're happy with hacking the horse, and see what happens. If they refuse again, then you'll have to decide how badly you want/need to sell the horse.

Is your issue with the rugging/clipping business that you think it means they don't know about managing horses? I think that's quite a harsh generalisation since people can and do keep horses successfully in other ways than you do. I know quite a few horses that live out in harsher climates than this one, work through the winter, and don't end up with the problems you seem to feel are certain. HOWEVER if your point is that you feel they don't know enough to look after this particular horse and this is an example of it, then that is a bit different.

The problem is you cannot guarantee what happens after the sale. Ever. All you can do is decide whether or not to go through with it in the first place. So if these people worry you and no one here has been able to give you a more balanced perspective, withdraw the horse from sale and try your luck again. I do think though, you might struggle in the current climate to find a "perfect" buyer, depending, of course, on how flexible you are about price etc. and how desirable the horse is. But if you have seven horses and one has to go . . .

One thing you can possibly do is draw up a very clear sales contract. Don't promise the horse will or won't do such and such, but describe the horse fully "as is", what he's been doing competition wise etc. and that you're NOT guaranteeing him as a quiet hack etc. If they still want to go ahead, at least you've got something towards "buyer beware". (And no, it won't necessarily hold up in court, but it does go towards assumption of risk.)
 
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