Using a schooling whip

nich4

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I’ve started loaning a horse who is on working livery at a riding school (owned by them) and he can be quite lazy when I'm schooling him on my own (bit more forward in a group lesson) particularly on the 'bad' rein. I get a grunt when I have to use a sharp leg aid and not much of a positive forward reaction. I've started to hold a schooling whip when riding and generally just having it there he is much more forward and it feels like he's using his back end much better and he is starting to come round and into the contact nicely at times - i'm also learning so this isn't consistent yet. In a session I may need to tap him once or twice but he generally is much better for me just having the whip in my hand. I think being used in the school albeit for the more experienced riders has made him a little dead to the leg and i'm probably asking for more circles etc than he is used to to try and supple him. I feel it's kinder to give a tap and have him going forward and into the contact as he generally has gone around with his head in the air and has quite a lot of muscle on the underside of his neck so i'm trying to get him to use himself properly and hopefully become more balanced and supple, HOWEVER I was told by an instructor there that I need to learn to push him on from my leg rather than having the whip and feel that I may be being viewed negatively for using a schooling whip. I literally come out of the school sweating without the whip and the session will have been him mainly dragging himself around the school and I don't feel like it has been beneficial for him or me. I agree that the leg aid should be given first (then backed up with the whip if the response isn't forward) but I would hope that over time he would learn to listen to my leg aid? Long post but am I doing the wrong thing? Should I ditch the whip?
 

be positive

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It sounds to me as if you may have more idea than the instructor, I hate seeing stiff horses struggling to move with the rider pushing and shoving when a flick with a schooling whip would send them forward in a much more positive way, the harder you are working the less you will actually achieve in the long run and if he is generally behind the leg in all his schooling sessions/ lessons then you will probably struggle to ever get much improvement.
I would keep carrying the whip, use it to back up the leg aids and sharpen him up through loads of transitions, if you don't already use poles or small jumps they may help get him more interested.

He is not yours so doing checks on saddle fit and his soundness may be tricky but need to be considered, many horses that are bilaterally lame will appear to be sound and a horse working a lot in a RS may well be struggling one way or another.
 

nich4

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It sounds to me as if you may have more idea than the instructor, I hate seeing stiff horses struggling to move with the rider pushing and shoving when a flick with a schooling whip would send them forward in a much more positive way, the harder you are working the less you will actually achieve in the long run and if he is generally behind the leg in all his schooling sessions/ lessons then you will probably struggle to ever get much improvement.
I would keep carrying the whip, use it to back up the leg aids and sharpen him up through loads of transitions, if you don't already use poles or small jumps they may help get him more interested.

He is not yours so doing checks on saddle fit and his soundness may be tricky but need to be considered, many horses that are bilaterally lame will appear to be sound and a horse working a lot in a RS may well be struggling one way or another.
Thank you, I have tried to start off with him doing all the things I have been taught previously (at a different yard) about getting the horse forward from behind and using transitions and have found poles really help loosen him up. I guess I will continue unless i'm told to stop using it. Yes saddle fit is something I've wondered about but as you say it's difficult as he's not mine although I do wish he was :)
 

nich4

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Nope, you are doing the right thing by using the whip to back up the leg aid. If you are having to kick and thump with your legs (or sweat while doing it) then you need to retrain your horse - using a whip.
Thank you, this is what I had been taught - to ask with the leg then back up if needed. I wonder if they are concerned about him becoming to responsive to be used in the school but I will carry on as I am for now.
 

nich4

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I’d try and hack out more- this will hopefully motivate more forward thinking.
Thank you, I'm hoping to when the nights start to get lighter but as I ride after work in the week we can't go out so I'm taking advantage of weekends at the moment to go out with him and he's really quite forward out on a hack
 

Zuzan

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I prefer using a schooling whip to strong leg aids .. find it is more effective at teaching a horse to go forward by "fluttering" a schooling whip immediately behind the leg.. the horse should learn to move in response to the lightest of leg squeezes.
 

tallyho!

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This situation is a little hard for you... not your own horse, unbalanced horse/rider combination (perhaps not you but we are slightly unbalanced - perhaps the owner was even more so) and from what you write, it seems that the instructor is unhelpful.

Can I ask which is the "bad" rein? How old is he? What's he done before? What are you having to do exactly? What type of horse and is he shod/unshod, is his saddle ok? What bit do you use?

Very difficult so say what is right but generally a schooling whip is much better than using the leg when you don't know what for.
 

nich4

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This situation is a little hard for you... not your own horse, unbalanced horse/rider combination (perhaps not you but we are slightly unbalanced - perhaps the owner was even more so) and from what you write, it seems that the instructor is unhelpful.

Can I ask which is the "bad" rein? How old is he? What's he done before? What are you having to do exactly? What type of horse and is he shod/unshod, is his saddle ok? What bit do you use?

Very difficult so say what is right but generally a schooling whip is much better than using the leg when you don't know what for.
This situation is a little hard for you... not your own horse, unbalanced horse/rider combination (perhaps not you but we are slightly unbalanced - perhaps the owner was even more so) and from what you write, it seems that the instructor is unhelpful.

Can I ask which is the "bad" rein? How old is he? What's he done before? What are you having to do exactly? What type of horse and is he shod/unshod, is his saddle ok? What bit do you use?

Very difficult so say what is right but generally a schooling whip is much better than using the leg when you don't know what for.

It is a little. I've loaned before but either shares with friends or full loan and always kept everything up to date - saddle, back teeth etc but I've no idea whether that's the case here I don't know anything about saddle fitting so I really couldn't say but it's quite old and well used one. His left rein is the 'bad' rein and he's shod on fronts, ridden in an eggbut snaffle. I think he's done a bit of everything at a low level - riding club stuff and he's 10. I'm finding a squeeze or a nudge with my leg isn't getting any reaction in the school I have to actually give a good kick to get trot which I don't like doing and then having to keep after him with my leg all the time unless i'm holding the whip and with it he is so much better. I have to make a decision over the next few weeks I think as to whether to carry on or give him up and look to buy my own :( the though makes me sad as I have fallen a bit in love with him and that's what keeps me going back but if I can't be responsible for his upkeep - saddle fitting, teeth etc then I don't really know if there are any issues causing him to be 'lazy'.
 

Trouper

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Is he the same when you hack out? If not, he could just be completely stale from working livery life and/or finding work in a school difficult if he has some physical issues which are not being addressed. If you love him, could you offer to buy him? However, I would want a very thorough vetting before taking him on.
Sorry, but I don't think the "schooling whip or no schooling whip" is the issue here.
 

mossycup

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If the instructos has been telling everyone to use 'more leg' (which is the world's most pointless instruction) on him, then he will just become dead to it. Much better to do lots of up and down transitions, up and down the gears in each pace, and tap with the stick if you don't get the response you need from a light leg aid. If he's not truly moving forward, he will feel stiff, and stiffness/not following the body round corners/sticking the neck in the opposite direction, can all be laziness/evasion techniques
 

Carander

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Advance forward to July 24 2024 when Olympian Dressage Charlotte Dujardin withdraws from 2024 Olympic Games because of video showing her “repeatedly whipping a horse “ whereas she is using the schooling whip as it is intended with a novice horse.
I started riding at 60 and found that a young boisterous New Forest quickly responded to leg aids when I carried the whip. If I got over confident and not used a whip I built up some strong leg muscles which was great for Squash.
Any comments
 

Goldie's mum

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Advance forward to July 24 2024 when Olympian Dressage Charlotte Dujardin withdraws from 2024 Olympic Games because of video showing her “repeatedly whipping a horse “ whereas she is using the schooling whip as it is intended with a novice horse.
I started riding at 60 and found that a young boisterous New Forest quickly responded to leg aids when I carried the whip. If I got over confident and not used a whip I built up some strong leg muscles which was great for Squash.
Any comments
You went to all the bother of joining a forum to comment about a video that it is obvious you haven't watched.

Beyond odd!
 
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