Using a twitch or sedalin - pros and cons...

[ecrozier]

Just looking for other opinions really. I've never really needed to twitch either of my two as they've either stood and behaved or been so bad they need sedating (eg mare for xrays!!).

Background is that our youngster is quite a big lad (16.2hh and growing) and 99% of the time is an angel to handle etc. However the other 1% he is a pain as he throws his weight around and gets to the point where you can do nothing with him! He doesn't bite, but barges into you and will kick out. A bit makes little or no difference, and the crosser you get with him, the worse he gets. Haven't tried a chiffney as he doesn't actually go up or foward, its more spinning around if that makes sense!

TBH this has only really happened 3 times....when the vet wanted to microchip him, when the saddler came (weirdly) and then yesterday morning when the vet came to look at a kick injury and wanted to dress and bandage the wound. Its not the vet himself as when he arrived yesterday he was absolutely fine with him patting him and looking at the leg....until he started putting dressings on....and yet its not pain related as that evening OH and I managed to do all the same process which we had to abandon in the morning, and he stood like a lamb!

So I am wondering about using a twitch on him for these occasions? Its really hard to train him out of this behaviour as so little seems to set it off, so we don't on a day to day basis get a chance to correct the behaviour, and when we do get it, we usually NEED him to behave! I think our other option will be to use sedalin every time we have a vet appt or similar booked - I'm hoping the saddler was a one off as he just didn't like her at all, but is never difficult to tack up at home, have had everyone one yard do it to check it isn't just us that he's used to!!

Any other suggestions?!

 

[littleme]

twitch's are greta if they work - to be honest they do on most horses (however annoyingly not on mine, cant even pull her mane as she wont have it and twitch ahs no effect!)

 

[angela_l_b]

I use a twitch to pull manes, even on the young one that really doesn't much mind it, as it seems to distract just enough. Have never had problems and it certainly saves getting into a fight.

My older horse can be very bolshy whenever he is fiddled with - osteopath, vet etc - after a year of being hauled about including some pretty painful tests and treatments, I don't really blame him. But it is bad manners and I need to stop him doing it. We have started telling him off using a spray bottle of water - I quickly spray his nose when he gets strong and it seems to give him a little shock, and he does behave afterwards. However, I only do this as he isn't really scared - he has just learnt he can chuck his head up and barge, and he's stronger than i am. I don't use it to scare him, which would be counter productive. It really does seem to work though, he looks very surprised and then stands like a lamb!

 

[ecrozier]

Littleme thanks, I wouldn't hesitate to use on my arab if i ever needed to but he's never needed it, gues am just worried about scaring/hurting the youngster!
Angela - interesting ide! Does he sort of bodyslam you with his shoulder and refuse to stand still?
I'm a little unsure whether he is genuiney scared of the vet or just being naughty, but the problem is even if it is naughtyness, its hard to train him out of it as so rarely does it!!

 

[NW1]

i agree - a twitch is a fabulous tool, the horses own natural endorphines (or whatever it releases) are the best thing for the horse and once you are done with the twiching they snap out of it straight away (also it takes effect very quickly), so if you are only needing a calm horse for 5 minutes the twich seems prefect.

as my vet said a twitch puts them in a happy place!

i find this works well on my large boy, who also gets bargey & 'body slams' when he doesn't like something, i.e he used to get like this with clipping legs, but with the twitch is was very very good boy.

Sometime twiches wont work on horses but if a horse wants to fight a 'sedation'.... it will! (ACP & sedaline included)

some dont like the intial putting of the twitch on but you can get this done pretty quickly once you get the hang of it.

hope this helps give you more of a picture but obviously i am biased!!

 

[ecrozier]

NW1, vet did produce a twitch on 'microchip day' but he'd already worked himself into a bit of state by then. Maybe I need to make/get a twitch and practice putting it on one of the others so I can do it quickly!

 

[MurphysMinder]

We sometimes have to use a twitch on our pony for various things as she is a bit of a psycho. Sorry if I am preaching to the converted but if you do use one please, please don't leave it on for long. A vet used one on our pony when she was on loan to x ray and dress a fractured leg. It was on for 45 minutes plus, made a real mess of her muzzle which was swollen for days and left a scar. When our own vet (who took over treatment) found out he went mad and said she was lucky not to have done more damage.

 

[Guinness]

I always thought you werent meant to use twitches on Arabs?? As for your other problem is he actually scared of the vet or just being naughty. If hes being naughty I cant really see how sedating him will achieve anything, and you really dont want to get into a cycle of sedating him every time the vet comes....sounds to me like he needs more work on his manners!

 

[angela_l_b]

Oh yes! I know all about the shoulder shove, as well as the walking through me like I am not there, and the incessant head jerking...

I got the idea from my friend who uses it on her puppy to stop her barking / biting at the kids. It seems to be enough of a shock to make them think again, without actually scaring or hurting them. The shock value is an advantage you have over him, as he is using his size against you! But I think you have to remember immediately afterwards, when he does stand, to praise him and make sure he is instantly rewarded for good as well as punished for bad behaviour.

My main fear was that it might make him scared of similar things like fly spray, but he's such a big bolshy prat I don't thnk it's likely. He never looks scared of it, just a touch surprised.

 

[Aru]

twitch...used correctly it just causes the horse to produce endorphins to calm them down ...only use the drugs like sedaline if you need too...

 

[NW1]

its a shame coz it sounds like it could have worked

there is a knack to them... depending on which one you use. i prefer the one which is jsut something like an old broom handle with a hole with baling twyne looped through.

p.s bodyslamming....

does you horse tense up, throw the opposite bend, drop the closest shoulder slightly and push all weight through & lead with the shoulder, followed very quickly with the rest of the body?

thats what my horse does! if its the same i might be able to help!

 

[muffinino]

[ QUOTE ]
I always thought you werent meant to use twitches on Arabs??

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never heard that - why not?

 

[ecrozier]

[ QUOTE ]
I always thought you werent meant to use twitches on Arabs?? As for your other problem is he actually scared of the vet or just being naughty. If hes being naughty I cant really see how sedating him will achieve anything, and you really dont want to get into a cycle of sedating him every time the vet comes....sounds to me like he needs more work on his manners!

[/ QUOTE ]

Why shouldn't you use on arabs?? I wouldn't actually need to use - his manners are impeccable, but to practice the acton of getting lip in right place.

In response to rest of comment, I'm not sure yet if its fear or naughtiness, as I said above, has only happened twice. If you can suggest to me how to improve him manners in this context I'd be really grateful! As he is IMPECCABLY behaved the rest of the time, he stands quietly on yard, recently went to Patchetts for second ever outing and behaved perfectly well, had second ever set of shoes on a strange yard, not bothered, 100% for farrier.....so I'm struggling with how to improve him when he goes into this 'panic' mode. So far sedtaing him achieved getting the microchip in which we needed for his passport....

Know it wouldn't be ideal to have to sedate every time, but when he needs treatment.....think the twitch is maybe a good thing to try, thanks all. Would hopefully only ever be for minutes, eg to get a wound treated.

Thanks all

ETA NW1 that sounds about right, he also just swings round and pushes you away with shoulder. Easy enough with me as I'm quite short but even does it to 6 ft 14stone OH! Vet also said he's one of the worst he has ever seen. Actually rang vet at 8pm last night to tell him had not only managed to clean wound, put cream on, and do all 5 layers of bandaging/dressing!!Like a different horse.

 

[Guinness]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I always thought you werent meant to use twitches on Arabs??

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never heard that - why not?

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume its because their noses are not very substantial-more in the Egyptians I think. My boss told me, I had never heard it before either but it kind of makes sense when you see how tiny some of their heads are! We never twitched our horses at work...

 

[ecrozier]

Yeah I guess on some of the more porcelain like ones there isn't much lip there - mine has a fairly normal muzzle tho. But never needed to twitch him.

 

[Ladylina83]

I love my twitch I aquired it many years ago and it is my most prized possesion I panic slightly when I can't find it! (it's a shovel handle with a bit of rope... some may gasp)

Some people hate them but I find it is much safer quicker and easier to twitch for a few mins than have a full on fight and get all wound up to get a simple task completed

 

[NW1]

What a monkey!!!!

re: bodyslamming - i am 5'6 average build... i have a 16hh maxi cob weighing over 750 kg and all muscle (i promise!). the trick is (i find) getting a good hold of the headcollar by the nose/chin bit, standing by their shoulder, (they will never throw the bend towards you becuase that would mean they are going to bodyslam away from you - just wont happen), have your arm running along their neck with your elbow placed on mid neck area. as soon as you feel them try to throw the opposite bend dig your elbow in their neck (leaning your body weight on it if necessary) and pull the headcollar with all your might. this will stop them from throwing the oppposite bend & body slamming. to start off with their head will probably end up in front of you... but their body will be far away from you, may even make them move away. as you get the hang of this & they do they will realise that when they try to do it, it is just useless and you will win the situation.

Sorry if you think i am harsh, but i know it does not hurt my horse in any way, this just gives me control & once i get in the position he knows that he will not win! i needed to find something that worked without sedating or evil restraints!!

i hope this helps & works but like anything each horse is an individual!

 

[ecrozier]

NW1, sounds like I am same kind of size as you - and our boy is 16.2hh ISH x WB so not quite as big as yours! I will try that thanks - problem is I guess with ours the evasion is moving, so moving in any direction will do....as it takes away the 'thing' he doesn't like - vet, needle, whatever!
Such sods when they want to be arent they! Problem is ours is so nice (think butter wouldn't melt!) the rest of the time!

 

[NW1]

I wish sometimes we could glue their hooves to the floor!!

it sounds so familiar that they are angels most of the time, its nice to know that our monsters are similar... pepole think im mad when i say my boy is naughty sometimes.. becuase he is angellic all other times!!!!

Fingers crossed he behaves himself for you

 

[ecrozier]

Same!! Its so funny, our vet/saddler CANNOT see what we see in this horse because for the them he has only ever been dreadfully naughty/bargey, yet all friends on yard/farrier/instructor/judges in showring, comment on how sweet and gentle he is, and well mannered considering we only just started him this spring really!
OH's previous mare was a moody baggage but at least she was consistent!

Hmmm....glue.....now there is an idea!

 

[Storminateacup]

The twitch is an amazing gadget. Works every time. I wish I had used it on my youngsters but for some strange reason forgot about it. Sedalin and ACP are not very effective if the horse is either really scared or really determined also some horses seem to get get worryingly wobbly on sedatives.
Plus I need the twitch to administer the Sedalin!!!!!

 

[AengusOg]

Here's a link to a similar topic, and some of my views on the subject. You may find it useful.
http://www.trotonline.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2914