Using the same stallion again

Asha

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I was just wondering, if anyone had used the same stallion on a mare more than once, and if so, how different / alike the resulting foals where ?

Did they look alike / similar temperaments / similar talent ?
 

ritajennings

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I used Crosstown Dancer Liver Chestnut 3 times and all the foals are alike bay with a tiny bit of white just like the dam all with great temperaments like the sire and Dam.
Stallion
190467_10150116482264190_691824189_6223465_6820204_n.jpg

Mare
threecounties2005.jpg

Archie and his brother Gordon
ArchieandGordon3Counties2004.jpg

Gerty
13mayJanetMatthews4.jpg


Ooops sorry about the size :)
 

RealityCheck

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these two are out of a Prinz gaylord mare, by my young stallion. Both are nice, tall foals, with IMO beautiful heads/necks, and nice hips. I may be bias since they come from my favorite mare, but you couldn't ask for a nicer temperament from them.
2jbv4th.jpg
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Castro mare, same stallion. Big, long legged foals, with this years filly (bottom) more upright and expressive. For the market, (HJ) less hock/need action is acceptable, to give a smoother, more level looking ride, both foals would be suitable for this.
wrb0ao.jpg
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Lynx mare, both Popeye K. Both foals offer a vast improvement on the dams neck, with a lot of natural muscle tone. Both are tall and elegant, with pretty heads, they were also both champions at their respective gradings.
vwvak5.jpg
21klbts.jpg
 

emlybob

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Used the same stallion on the same mare 6 times. First foal ended up at 17.1hh big moving bay, a couple similar. The 4 year old 16.2 and chestnut very different stamp
 

Asha

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Wow, they are all absolutey stunning.

Really nothing between yours Ritajennings. Their dam really put a fantastic stamp on them all.

Realitycheck - what gorgeous babies, and so similar

This is very reassuring.

My first foal now 3 1/2 has just gone away for backing, and we are getting some very exciting vibes about him, its early days so i am keeping my excitement under control.

Shes had another foal by a different stallion, she has the same fantastic temperament as her brother, nicely put together, but different. Not in a bad way, just different. Just musing with the possibility of using the first stallion again.

Thanks
 

cundlegreen

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I bred three. the first gelding took after Dad for colour, the others after Mum. The one filly has less bone than the boys, but are all very similar in way of going and height.
Dad....
willyrihs.jpg


Mum.......
podge2.jpg

Kids....
IMG_0026.jpg

befpics1.jpg

P1010024-1.jpg
 

EstherYoung

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Spud and Felix have several full siblings. They are all pretty typey and you can tell they're a product of their parents but they've taken different things from both. Their dam only had eyes for their father and it was very much a love match. They're all a bit special (Spud in more ways than one.... ;) ).

The owner of one of their sisters has done a brief overview of the family on their website:
http://www.skou-arabians.dk/Affiffa_eng.htm

To add to the list are the two youngest - one is in race training and the other is Felix, the baby of the bunch.

Spud and Felix are very different characters (Spud is away with the fairies and Felix is a bit more serious), but they both have a liking for digging very round, symmetrical holes. Felix I think will end up taller than his brother.
 

Asha

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Cundlegreen, your 'kids' are beautiful, such gentle kind faces, as well as everything else. You must be very proud.

Esteryoung - spud sounds fab, i like em special;)
 

the watcher

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I also have two by HTobago out of the same mare. Both are red duns with a tiny white star, the older gelding has a little more bone than the younger filly but in every other respect they are a very close match, temperamentally they are very similar

The gelding as a 2 year old
28261_442371404459_701219459_577987.jpg


The filly as a yearling
222013_10150237799424460_701219459_8525273_3807204_n.jpg
 

oldywoldy

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We have used Jumbo many times on different mares mainly thoroughbreds. My best mare has had 13 Jumbos they are all like peas in a pod. Same colour, slightly differing in size but not much, same fabulous temperament, same stamp, all move and all jump and all of those who are old enough are eventing from 4* downwards. I love a stallion who seriously stamps his stock and you cannot get any better than Jumbo! His sons are also stamping their stock too. And no I do not have anything to do with Grafham Stud I am just a big fan!
 

foxy1

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I wonder if it makes a difference if you get colt/filly siblings rather than the same sex? I mean, are the same sex siblings more similar?
 

Asha

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We have used Jumbo many times on different mares mainly thoroughbreds. My best mare has had 13 Jumbos they are all like peas in a pod. Same colour, slightly differing in size but not much, same fabulous temperament, same stamp, all move and all jump and all of those who are old enough are eventing from 4* downwards. I love a stallion who seriously stamps his stock and you cannot get any better than Jumbo! His sons are also stamping their stock too. And no I do not have anything to do with Grafham Stud I am just a big fan!

The stallion i used initially really stamps his stock too. They tend to be bay, white socks and stripe, plus great temperaments.

Must admit i nearly used jumbo, but as she is 3/4 ID i thought the foal would be too chunky. He is undoubtedly a superb stallion.
 

TBB

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I find it varies a lot, one Tb mare had 3 Tbs by the same stallion all the same colour and confirmation but 15.2, 16.0 and 16.3 at 3 years old, the first was a filly. The same mare had two by a different Tb stallion one 16.3 at 3 and bay and the other ches. and 14.3 at 3, the latter is a filly and again similar conformation. We had a sport horse mare who went to Cruising 4 times and had 2 colts and 2 fillies and all 4 were differnt shapes, colours and types and none took after mum or dad!
 

PennyJ

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Very interesting thread, I am just about decided to go back and use the same stallion as my mare's first foal, who is now under saddle and showing a lot of promise with a HOYS campaign planned for next year...
 

Asha

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Very interesting thread, I am just about decided to go back and use the same stallion as my mare's first foal, who is now under saddle and showing a lot of promise with a HOYS campaign planned for next year...

Which stallion, have you any pics of your first foal?
 

First Time Mum

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My 3 year old has 2 full sisters and a full brother.
2 year old colt is the spitting image but moves differently to her
Yearling is totally different colour (dark bay - others are bright chestnut) very similar head totally different temprament moves very similar to the 3 year old
Foal is the spitting image of my 3 year old similar personality, movement the lot
 

JanetGeorge

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I was just wondering, if anyone had used the same stallion on a mare more than once, and if so, how different / alike the resulting foals where ?

Did they look alike / similar temperaments / similar talent ?

Having had my own RID stallion for 8 years, I have used him on a number of my mares year after year! The mare who has had the MOST foals by him is Northwood Rose RID - a very traditional ID - only 15.2 and built like a brick outhouse! She has had a total of 9 full siblings by Raj. They are ALL grey - so I suspect Rosie is homozygous for grey! :D The oldest is an 8 year old mare, then there were 3 boys in a row, then 4 more fillies - and a colt this year. Heights range from about 15.3 (a now 4 year old filly) up to 17hh (a 7 year old gelding who was entire until rising 6.) The biggest daughter (now 3) will finish up about 16.3!

Conformation varies a bit - but they are all similar in 'look'. But the over-riding similarity is temperament (all great!) Next year will be the first foal by a different stallion (and he's not grey) so it will be interesting to see the result of that - the decision to change stallions was purely because of her age - I wanted to use a much smaller stallion on her for her comfort during covering - and in hope of a smaller foal at foaling (she always has BIG foals!)

Another mare who had a lot by him was Little Macha RID - a very good mare - a full sister to the great RID stallion Agherlow. She was in foal to another stallion when I bought her, and 1 of her daughters by a different stallion again came here for covering, and I'd say the Raj offspring were her best! The oldest daughter was a little lacking on the conformation front, the next daughter was better (and the better brood mare.) The 3rd full sibling was a bay colt - and he was TOTALLY different to all the other full siblings (all of whom are grey) except in temperament. All the progeny have had fantastic temperaments which was to be expected as she was a lamb and my stallion is also exceptional in that regard. We're just backing her last foal - he's been about THE easiest horse we've ever backed (and we've had a lot of easy ones.) One of the full brothers was backed at Robert Oliver's yard, and Robert also said HE was one of the easiest they've ever had.

I guess one of the drawbacks to having your own stallion is that you tend to use him on your mares as long as the progeny are good - so you DON'T find out if progeny by other stallions MIGHT be better! AS my stallion has got much older I have got a bit more adventurous and used other stallions on some of the mares, either because I was looking for improvement (or variety, or non-greys, or in a couple of cases because the mares were 'difficult' with natural cover so were better AI'd!) I've particularly used Avanti Amorous Archie over the past 4 years and in a few cases, the foals were strikingly 'better' - so have stuck with him for those mares. With others, the quality of the foals has been very similar - not surprising as Archie and my stallion are both very similar in type, size and temperament!

The other stallion I've used on some in the last 2 years is a home-bred youngster who is very different in type, smaller for starters - with a dash of TB high up in his pedigree - and one has to say the Breed Inspectors didn't like him much!:rolleyes: But a couple of the mares have produced foals that are VERY different to those they've produced before - and I like them a lot - so we used him on a few more this year. Time will tell!
 
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Lgd

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Three foals from the same mare, all outstanding movers. One chestnut, two bays. The first is a bit of a shrimp and threw back height-wise to her grandsire. Her brother is going to be a hand taller than her but similar type. Third one sadly died as a foal but would probably have been similar height to her brother - typically also the best one of the lot which is not dissing the other two.

Number one - mixed album but she is the chestnut one

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.35569552977.43359.673237977&type=1&l=d67711ecf8

Number 2

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.397242062977.177329.673237977&type=1&l=d6dbed1aca

as a 2yo

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151087376537978.460986.673237977&type=1&l=d58f63e9ec

number 3

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150208094157978.333768.673237977&type=1&l=8c7639ac04
 

Maesfen

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Where to begin!
Spry, my first mare had two by Embla Statesman, peas in a pod! Fiver (the yearling in this) is now 22 and still going strong.
008-1.jpg

Then she had two by Big Connaught (TB) a chestnut and a bay. Conway Gold won the HIS Sale Show and was top priced 2 yr old there while Jackson was a small bay who has just celebrated his 19th birthday.
Chestnut foal
004-3.jpg

A bad pic but used for advertising the next year after his win
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007-1.jpg


I've had 4 by Bazaars Texas from 3 different bay TB mares. Again, all very similar. This is Joey and Dotty. Very sadly, my vet lost Joey last weekend when he struck into himself out hunting; to say we're all devastated is an understatement. Even regarding them all as special in their own way he did have to be the best I had bred; Joey had so much natural talent he was a machine cross country; we had high hopes of him, sadly no more.

jd013.jpg


I've had 4 by Fairlyn Gemini, 2 different TB mares; so alike it's like looking in the mirror (but sadly no pics)

I've also had 3 by Maurice Minor (ID) from 3 different but similar type mares that are peas in a pod although the filly, Tara is lighter boned.
Bear, working hunter champion and seriously good hunter, jumps anything, this as a 3 yr old before breaking
joeybear-2.jpg

Tara, yearling earlier this year
Untitled.jpg

Manny,
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Now of course, I'm waiting for another H Tobago from Bea to match this one!
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Sorry there are so many!
 

htobago

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Fascinating thread!

Tobago's babies out of the same mare are always virtually identical. I'll find some more examples, but here are a few more pics of cloppy's 'twins' out of Holme Park Sunbeam (Trakehner):

echonewIMG_0081.jpg


echonewIMG_0084.jpg


echonewIMG_0108-1.jpg


Oh blast - second lot of pics didn't work - will try again later... sorry!
 
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JanetGeorge

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Fascinating thread!

Tobago's babies out of the same mare are always virtually identical.

That doesn't surprise me. Arabians and TBs are OLD breeds - and very pre-potent. They always carry more influence than the younger breeds.

I confess I can't WAIT for my H Tobago foals. Katie and Brook (both IDSH) have consistently produced very nice foals to Raj (RID) but one has to say that Katie's are always a teensy bit plain in the head - and a teensy bit TOO tall!

This is Katie with one of her Raj foals:
imgA2.jpg


She IS a cracking mover - as are all her foals - and the H Tobago foal (in addition to being chestnut rather than another ruddy grey!) will have at LEAST as good movement, and a MUCH prettier head.

Brook has a lovely head - I'm just hoping her foal is a filly because a colt will be just TOO pretty to be taken seriously!:D

This is Brook - with a Raj foal (who greyed out)
imgB0.jpg


And this is one of her Raj daughters (slightly plainer head than Mum.)

Ripple.jpg
 
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Alec Swan

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This thread is a delight, regardless of anything.

Maesfen, Wonderful pics, thank you.

Back to the question. I've seen the same stallion used on the same mare, 3 years running, and 3 totally opposing foals have been born. When others tell me that everything's gone according to plan, then I don't believe them, it's a lottery, and mostly we get what we want, a healthy foal. What we make of it is an entirely different matter! ;)

Alec.
 

htobago

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That doesn't surprise me. Arabians and TBs are OLD breeds - and very pre-potent. They always carry more influence than the younger breeds.

I confess I can't WAIT for my H Tobago foals. Katie and Brook (both IDSH) have consistently produced very nice foals to Raj (RID) but one has to say that Katie's are always a teensy bit plain in the head - and a teensy bit TOO tall!

This is Katie with one of her Raj foals:
imgA2.jpg


She IS a cracking mover - as are all her foals - and the H Tobago foal (in addition to being chestnut rather than another ruddy grey!) will have at LEAST as good movement, and a MUCH prettier head.

Brook has a lovely head - I'm just hoping her foal is a filly because a colt will be just TOO pretty to be taken seriously!:D

This is Brook - with a Raj foal (who greyed out)
imgB0.jpg


And this is one of her Raj daughters (slightly plainer head than Mum.)

Ripple.jpg

I am counting the days till these two arrive - very excited and impatient! The Raj foals from these splendid girls will be a hard act to follow, though, of course. ;)
 

JanetGeorge

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Back to the question. I've seen the same stallion used on the same mare, 3 years running, and 3 totally opposing foals have been born. When others tell me that everything's gone according to plan, then I don't believe them, it's a lottery, and mostly we get what we want, a healthy foal. What we make of it is an entirely different matter! ;)

Alec.

You're not wrong! You can get a LOT of variation in full siblings but it is more likely where one or both parents are of mixed breeding!

These are full siblings - pure ID:

Rambo-October.jpg


Thornton.jpg


Grading-Secret.jpg


Maggie-caroline.jpg
(the mare - not the foal)

summer.jpg


They're certainly not identical, but ....
 

htobago

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Trying again to post pics of the Tobago 'twins' out of Cloppy's Trakehner mare Holme Park Sunbeam -my computer was having a hissy fit earlier - hope it works this time:

echonewIMG_0081.jpg

echonewIMG_0109.jpg

echonewIMG_0080.jpg

pbspirocanter.jpg

pbspirohead.jpg

pbspiroout.jpg


Not terribly helpful pics for comparison, as the second lot are just paddock-snap headshots in winter woollies, but you see what I mean about 'twins'?

And here's a filly by Tobago who is 3/4 sister to the 2 colts above, out of Holme Park Venezia (she's much younger in these pics than the 2 colts, so not ideal for comparison, but thought it might be interesting to see a 3/4 sibling as well):

valenciacanterlight.jpg


volatisvalencia.jpg


Untitled-4.jpg



And here are a couple of The Watcher's Tobagolings (colt and filly) out of her super Highland pony mare:

Onyxfront.jpg

onyx1.jpg

topaz-babypic.jpg


And a more recent one of the colt:

onyx-bago.jpg



Two palomino fillies, also by Tobago, both out of Louraise Bint Silver Charm, both photos as yearlings:

IMG_5173Malvern2009.jpg

IMG_5179Malvern2009.jpg

bambamaf.jpg

bambamyearling.jpg


And a more recent pic of the older of these 2 palomino 'twins':
bambiechampion.jpg


The dam is back in foal to Tobago again, so I'll post a 'triplet' photo when the 2013 baby arrives...

And here are two more 'twin' Tobagolings ( a colt and a filly) out of a TB mare by Java Tiger (apologies for poor-quality pics of the second one):

Benjiroyearling1.jpg

benjiroyearlingtrot.jpg

tiantrot.jpg

Anglo-ArabfillybyHTobagoxTigerMoon.jpg


This mare is also back in foal to Tobago, so I'll add the 2013 triplet when it arrives.

He has pure-bred full siblings too, but tbh all his pure-bred foals look pretty much identical anyway - I've been accused of cloning...;)

Very good point JanetGeorge about old breeds (Arabs and TBs) being more prepotent. There is still of course much variation in prepotency within these old breeds. Some Arab stallions - and mares - stamp their stock much more strongly than others.

I know IDs are not as old a breed as Arabs or TBs, of course, but certainly some ID stallions seem to be highly prepotent - Archie being a good example! But I'm woefully ignorant about the breed as a whole - are IDs known for being particularly prepotent?
 
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