using violence towards horses

tinkandlily

tinkandlily

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There is an interesting debate on the your horse website and i am wondering what your oppinions are, if your horses are naughty do you give them a smack? would you class it as violence? or a reminder. I personaly don't like smacking, but if a horse is truly being naughty, i will give it a smack on the shoulder as a reminder.
What are your oppinions
Discuss......
 
If they have stopped at a jump i say no or there name in a firm tone (if its naughty they may get a light tap on the shoulder) but with my mare i pat her - she looses the plot if she is smacked, as she is very sensitive and a don't want to upset her. And i too do not like violence towards horses.

If a horse rears out of bad behaviour only then will they get a firm smack on the bum (but never hard).
 
i think if a horse is being naughty then a firm nudge in the side or like a horse would do in the wild does a better trick than for example whipping which just makes the horse nervous- sure it is too scared to come near you and do anything wrong- but what use is that when you want to get on it? and then you can end up with panic rearing and bolting etc... but not to forget that in the wild horses are not soft on each other!
 
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Luckily my horse isn't naughty very often so I don't carry a whip although I probably should. Think it depends on what they are doing wrong and why but I think there is a place for smacking horses although it is probably well over used!
 
Generally no, but when she is totally taking the mick and I have asked in a series of nice ways, then she does get a smack on the shoulder. Sometimes she is a bit of a tit and decides to stop listening and barge or spook (never for scared spooking, only for 'put on' spooking!), if she continues to ignore me asking he to walk forwards and work then a firm but not hard slap on the shoulder reminders her that she gets a say but the final decision isn't hers!!
 
It depends on the horse really. My mare is very sensitive and a verbal correction usually works better for her (uh-uh or grrr depending on the offence) but the gelding is very thick skinned and laid back so he gets a smack if necessary or a dig in the ribs when he pretends he can't move sideways yet again......

However, I will never ever smack a horse on the head even for nipping.
 
Personally, i will only give Lady a tap on the nose if she misbehaves (she went to bite another horse yesterday and i tapped her nose and said NO!)
but i disagree when i see people whacking their horses with whips etc if they stop at a jump or dont do exactly when the rider is asking....If Lady stops at a jump i just turn her round and have another go the other way (she usually refuses a jump depending which way she is jumping) :rolleyes:
 
I think there's a difference between violence and correction. I classify correction as a clear communication that tells the horse they have done something wrong. Violence is a confusing message that tells them nothing.

To that end, I consider a correction another application of aids. If I ask for something with clear aids and do not get it, I am going to use a more forceful application of aids and if I still don't get it, I'm going to use a tap of my crop (as an example). The tap is simply another aid to reinforce the others - it's not an angry outburst.

On the ground, I almost never use a smack - I'm more apt to use a sharp "Aack!" but sometimes a smack will accompany it depending on the behavior. When my mare paws the ground for example, which she knows is not allowed, I Aack her and smack her chest at the same time.

To me, the key is communication. You're trying to convey something to your horse. When it becomes simply an angry reaction, it becomes useless violence.
 
As owner of a 4yr old with no manners who rears in his stable, charges out as soon as the door is opened (only sometimes and he has no 'bad' experience of being in his stable) he will pull tying up rings out of the wall then just stand there like butter wouldn't melt! He also bites occaisionally for no reason too!

Yes I tap him on the nose if his head is next to my side and he's biten me and I will pat him inbetween the shoulders to get him to back up so I can get out of his stable. I have never had to do this with any other pony but he can be a little **** if the mood takes him!
 
Well don't get me wrong i absolutely love my horse to bits and i certainly dont like violence used round horses but when i first got him he would really try to push the boundaries, and one time after he kicked me very hard purposefully for no particular reason i lost it with him, i felt guilty at the time but i can tell you since then 2yrs later i have never had to do more than say his name loudly i think we have an understanding, he is in no way scared of me and can still be cheeky but i seriously doubt he'd ever attempt to kick me again. This was a problem i was not willing to put up with so i nipped it in the bud very quickly and i dont regret it.
 
Thats the point i have been trying to get across, but a few people think its a terrible thing to smack a naughty horse.
I don't belive in violence, my old YO was trying to catch her colt, he wouldn't come in, so when he did eventually come in, she beat the s**t out of him with his headcollar.
That sort of violence i DO NOT condone.
But i think some peolpe have trouble excepting the fact that some horses are downright naughty and kick and bite for no reason, if a dog bit anyone more than likly it would be PTS so i think, by giving a horse a smack to remind it, i think they get off rather lightly.
 
tinkandlily said:
Thats the point i have been trying to get across, but a few people think its a terrible thing to smack a naughty horse.
I don't belive in violence, my old YO was trying to catch her colt, he wouldn't come in, so when he did eventually come in, she beat the s**t out of him with his headcollar.
That sort of violence i DO NOT condone.
But i think some peolpe have trouble excepting the fact that some horses are downright naughty and kick and bite for no reason, if a dog bit anyone more than likly it would be PTS so i think, by giving a horse a smack to remind it, i think they get off rather lightly.
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I totally agree with you, horses are big strong animals and if left to it some would be dangerous to handle and be around. Although some people are to quick to lift their hands (or crop) and should be reported for cruelty in some cases.
 
my horses gets a smack with the reins if he is taking the mick when we are riding and then if he is naughty he gets a smack as a reminder, the other day he was being bathed and he dragged me up the yard in canter when i managed to stop him he got a firm smack with the end of the lead rope and he knew he was wrong as he stood completly still after that, horse do need firm reminders otherwise they would just do what they wanted all the time
 
My boy is very sensitive and a raised voice is plenty to let him know that he is in the wrong. We have reached an agreement about smacking the pesky flies, he tells me where they are and i tell him i'm going to hit them! if i randomly smack one he gets all huffy as if to say 'i didn't do anything wrong!'

As for carrying a whip......i'd end up in the next county!!
 
I think you can be firm but fair... I would never harm a horse, but if it purposely bit or kicked at me, it would get a loud smack. I have found that using my voice is almost as effective as telling them off physically, I can do a good and very threatening growl :P
 
I am glad others have the same view, if i give my horse a smack for biting, then i'm the bad guy, horses should never be hit, but thats how they learn in the wild, if a younster gets a bit out of hand, the older horses won't think twice about kicking or biting, to put it in its place, some people keep saying that their is always a reason for a horse to missbehave, but i think some just like to be naughty.
I think its better to give a short sharp shock to a horse straight after being naughty, rather than someone faffing around for hours trying to persuade it to behave.
 
I hate violence to any animal and have never hit any horse or dog in my life. People who shout and hit are scared and not in control, they are frustrated and have no authority. I have a huge amount of respect for my animals and they respect me. I think that smacking a horse on the shoulder with a whip when riding equally pointless, a TAP behind the saddle if forward movement is required is exeptable. I think that you can repremand an animal, be it dog or horse without any violence whatsoever. I also never think that it is any use to use their name!! That is one of my pet hates!
 
I have just bought a colt, whos testing the boundaries and keeps trying to nibble me. He's actually bitten me quite hard twice in teh stomach. I managed to nip this in the bud by catching him in the act one day and knocking him under the chin with the top of a rolled fist, not a full on punch but hard enough to say, don't try me. He got a shock but stopped biting after that and didn't love me any less (in fact he's so soppy he starts calling as soon as I leave him tied up whilst i'm mucking out and tries to follow me to the muck heap everytime I walk past him with a barrow even though he's tied up...plonker!)...


...and now a week later, people on my yard keep feeding him out of their hands (as he's new and they all want to treat him) and he's got into the habit again...grrrrrrrrr

I was really annoyed as he was doing so well and i just think I'm going to get nowhere with him! I don't mind them dropping treats in his stable as he needs fattening up, or giving him cuddles, but everytime he goes to nibble them they all say, "aww he's so cute he's nibbling me"...I'd like to see them on the recieving end of those teeth in their ribs when caught unawares!
 
I have no qualms about giving a smack with the palm of my hand and at the same time a resounding 'NO' if a horse were to try to bite or kick and I don't have a problem with using my body language to move them from my personal space if a horse is trying it on. I have to say I certainly don't do it often and it's only been used if I have had to, like one who tried to bite my arm, another who tried to bite my leg and one who tried to walk over me like a carpet.

If a situation warrants your own safety then I would agree that it is acceptable. Losing your temper, however, is a completely different scenario and resorting to violence once your fuse has gone is a no no IMO.
 
My horse bit me once, I smacked him on the nose - not the done thing I know but I can tell you he has never done it again, in 5 years. Sorry but I would rather smack my horse once than spoil him. Like a child really.
When my horse bolted with me not long ago I got off and lost it when I finally managed to stop him (after 3 miles!!!) and smacked him hard on the bum with my whip. (I never use my whip on him - ever but he needed to be put back in line).
I think if horses are naughty they should be punished, I would in no way go smacking my horse round the head, have much more respect for him than that.
Also once my horse just stopped and tried to take me home (when I first got him) and he did this a couple of times as I didn't know him very well I was very against whipping him as I didn't know how he would react and we were on the road. I got fed up with it and took my whip and gave him a very hard smack on the bum. He also has never done it again.
I have no problem smacking my horse (a smack, not beating him!!!) if he deserves it. Too many spoilt horses out there.
Horses in the wild are 'told off' by their mothers when they are naughty so I don't see any problem with putting a horse in it's place.
Horses are too big and have too much power to be allowed to walk over us. They need to have boundries.
I have a fab relationship with my horse and I would never ever beat him or bully him.EVER. But If he is naughty he will get a smack and I am not ashamed to say that.
 
agree with above poster - ive got a bolshy cob, he can be so so ride and dominant
if hes naughty i will smack him immediateley with my hand or lead rope - he barges and it can be dangerous not just to me but him, last year he barged into another horses stable and stumbled over a whell barrow and pitch fork - he was very very lucky not be hurt.
I would rather my horse has a quick slap and firm "no" when he tries ot pull away than him do it and be seriously hurt
I do not agree with whacking 10 minutes after hes been naughty (horse doesnt know why) - or doing it out of temper - but to discipline immediately and appropriateley is acceptable i think
Kicking and punching is a definite no no but if your horse is beign rude and bolshy then a shoulder slap with a loud "no" is needed
 
niagaraduval said:
Sorry but I would rather smack my horse once than spoil him. Like a child really.
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I totally agree!

They need to know whos boss - not in a beat the **** out of them sort of way but in a way that says NO

I know that if you say no or growl at my littleun he pulls this little angel face and as soon as you turn around he's going for you again! I don't like seeing horses being smacked repeatedly or whipped unnecessarily but they need discipline, in a way thats natural for them, which, in the wild, is a bite or a kick (and I know my teeth or feet aren't going to do much damage to him!) so a short sharp tap is what they need!
 
pastie2 said:
I hate violence to any animal and have never hit any horse or dog in my life. People who shout and hit are scared and not in control, they are frustrated and have no authority. I have a huge amount of respect for my animals and they respect me. I think that smacking a horse on the shoulder with a whip when riding equally pointless, a TAP behind the saddle if forward movement is required is exeptable. I think that you can repremand an animal, be it dog or horse without any violence whatsoever. I also never think that it is any use to use their name!! That is one of my pet hates!
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canot agree with this - i need my horse ot behave for his and my own good - i smack him when hes naughty, not in temper - but to stop the offending behaviour and let him know it is not acceptable
 
Like narkymare i have a cob, who when younger was very bolshy. He used to get a smack on the shoulder (and still does) when he barged and pushed back when he invaded personal space, oth with a short sharp 'NO!'. I know have a very respectful cob who will follow me anywhere, stopping when i do, can be left in the middle of the yard, left with small children, and left with stable door open and will not take a step out of it. I've never beat him, been cruel and never smacked him un-necesserily or when he's been scared, but also i've never let him push me around and think it's ok to get his own way. Now he just gets growled at when he's naughty and he stops whatever he's doing.

Same with Blue, he used to be owned by someone who let him think it was ok to barge out of his stable, He tried it with me, my sister, my ym, and my mum.....None of us let him get away with it....me and my mum can even take his head collar off with his door wide open and he won't tep towards it....My sharer on the other hand is very gentle with him and only raises her voice when she's really annoyed with him, by which time hes been messing around for too long...the result, it takes her 5 mins to pick his feet out, ages to get his bridle on and hes barged her out of the way at least 4 times, twice in the past week and each time someone else has had to sort him out for her as she won't do anything about it, despite the fact we keep telling her it's dangerous behaviour.

Blue also gets a tap on his leg (from me) as he starts pawing with a firm no, again the result - i can have him tied up, standing still for a good 30 mins before he starts, and will stop as soon as he's asked, with my sharer - he starts as soon as he's tied.

I only 'smack' them when they do something tho, Blue snaps when he's tetchy and i leave him as i know he won't actually get me, if he did get me he'd get a smack then. Same with the colt next to Herc who loves nipping, i let him play, but if he bites me he gets a flick/tap on the nose, he also gets lots of praise when you fuss him and he doesnt bite.
I was fuming the other day when another livery got involved when my sharer was trying to get Blues bridle on (he head shakes really badly as you try put his bit in) first thing she did was smack him around the face - something he's never hit, just ignored for. It took me ages to get it on him the next day.


pastie2 said:
I hate violence to any animal and have never hit any horse or dog in my life. People who shout and hit are scared and not in control, they are frustrated and have no authority. I have a huge amount of respect for my animals and they respect me. I think that smacking a horse on the shoulder with a whip when riding equally pointless, a TAP behind the saddle if forward movement is required is exeptable. I think that you can repremand an animal, be it dog or horse without any violence whatsoever. I also never think that it is any use to use their name!! That is one of my pet hates!
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Sorry but i really don't agree with that, Yes you can reprimand an animal without violence, but not all the time.
 
I deal with a lot off horses with issues and if I'm honest most are the way they are due to humans. I get a lot to work with who have no boundrys what so ever and don't know the difference between right and wrong. I am firm but fair as it needs sorting asap. I will smack if they need it to keep them in line but nobody should go over the top. Iv seen a girl smack the s!!t out off her horse with a whip across the face and I lost my rag and got involved, shouldn't off as I got into trouble for what I done to her but I saw red and don't regret it. Horses are strong dangerous animal if you let them so I go for a 50/50 parnership and if they need to be put back in line they will be.
 
I am not going to get involved in an argument. Each to their own, personally I have never had to resort to any kind of smacking or berating. Just to add that we stood big welsh stallions, 16 hands plus, I think that with the right handling that they knew who was boss. Did have a bolshy one, put him out with mares and foals and the mares sorted him out, came back in a lamb. Never had to lay a hand on him!
 
One breeder once told me any foals that bit as youngsters she used to bite back - straight after biting her she'd nip their crest. Said she never had a problem after that as they'd been told off in their natural way.

Have personally never done with this with my horses, only my yearling got nibbly after being treated and she just got shoved away.
 
I am never violent to my horse but since we had him he's had a bit of a culture shock, he's gone from being babied and walking all over his owner to being told off for not listeing to my commands.

If he nips me (which he does if he gets treats) I stand on his foot, he hasn't done it since the first time.

If he barges me or invades my personal space then he gets a nudge in the side. We are working on my personal bubble and he is not allowed to invade this bubble. I wouldn't call this violent as I'm just treating him like an animal not a child like his previous owner.

I would never smack him though as I don't wan him too be scared of me I just want him to respect me.
 
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