Valuing horses?

[tootsietoo]

So I play the "how much is it advertised for" game with my children quite a lot. They read out an ad from H&H and I have to guess what price the horse is advertised at. I am pretty good at it, if I say so myself, when the horse has a track record. However, I am completely stumped when there isn't much of a competition record. The horse can be usually be anywhere from £3k to £10k or more, with not much available in the ad to explain the difference! And the other thing that gets me is that nice looking 5 year olds with one season's BE record at 90/100 can be far upwards of £10k, not much off the price that people seem to advertise horses that have done novice/intermediate. This is concerning me a little as I am planning to look for a nice 5 year old towards the end of next year.

Can anyone explain to me what justifies the huge variations in prices for untested/fairly young horses? Are the high prices just for good conformation? Or would they need to have some good breeding behind them too? Or is it just that particular dealers are trusted and can get big prices for their young horses?

Discuss

 

[Goldenstar]

Potential is always valued highly .
OftenToo highly IMO .

 

[be positive]

The difference will be due to many things, some people will have an over inflated sense of the value but otherwise it comes down to whether it shows promise to go up the levels, an experienced producer will soon know, also whether the results at 90/100 have been won or placed each time or struggled round a few picking up high scores, sometimes you read the description then look at the results and wonder if you are on the wrong page the actual results bear no resemblance to the horse written about in the ad, this goes for horses at all levels you need to check records before going to view.

Breeding, temperament, conformation etc will also be taken into account when setting a value, the horse may have a brilliant record but be difficult to ride or deal with which may bring the price down f it is not good enough for a pro.

 

[tootsietoo]

Yes. All things that are difficult to show or explain in an ad. You would need to do a fair bit of checking into record and breeding and get lots of videos etc. Temperament is so important I think but so hard to judge on just a couple of viewings!

 

[be positive]

Yes. All things that are difficult to show or explain in an ad. You would need to do a fair bit of checking into record and breeding and get lots of videos etc. Temperament is so important I think but so hard to judge on just a couple of viewings!

It is not difficult to put a link to the BE record in an ad or the name of the horse, which will allow you to at least see if the horse described as " a stunning eventer with 4* potential etc" has actually even got round a BE90, I have been extremely disappointed when looking to find what sounds like a wonderful horse with an excellent record has failed to complete xc numerous times, has never sj clear and has dressage scores in the 40's, the odd blip, bad day, rider error is fair enough but some people really do take liberties when writing ads.

When you do start looking you will need to be quick, a really genuine 5 year old with a decent record will often sell very quickly.

 

[tootsietoo]

I think I'll probably need to look for one without a competition record because a record seems to add too many £££ to the price! But that's where it gets confusing because some nice looking 5 yr olds with no competition record are a few thousand, others more like £8k!

 

[rachk89]

I know what you mean. My horses breeder advertised him at 5 for £4500. He had done nothing at all was barely schooled looked skinny and awful. Reason I think? His sire is by rubinstein. That's all I can think of at least. We probably still over paid for him in his condition at 3 grand but we were getting a decent horse that had so much potential so we figured eh why not. He is now much healthier fitter has doubled in size thanks to us feeding him (shock horror that you should be feeding a horse) and he has come far in his schooling. So you never know if you search enough you could find an amazing horse that is under priced and will become great once treated right.

 

[Goldenstar]

Two horses 16.2 ISH bay 4years old .
Both are straight movers and have nice conformation .
Both jump willingly and are amenable and easy to train .
But one is not naturally athletic and has a less than perfect natural jump .
The other has natural impulsion and balance and leaves the ground with a natural round jump.
One will be 5k and the other could be 25k .

 

[ihatework]

Two horses 16.2 ISH bay 4years old .
Both are straight movers and have nice conformation .
Both jump willingly and are amenable and easy to train .
But one is not naturally athletic and has a less than perfect natural jump .
The other has natural impulsion and balance and leaves the ground with a natural round jump.
One will be 5k and the other could be 25k .

Exactly. Sometimes it's just 'something' you feel when they work too.
The other thing to note is, that a competent pro with a willing horse can get you a pretty damn good 100 record. That does not mean the horse is going anywhere near advanced.

The money available to spend behind the scenes on easy but competitive 100/N/1* horses is eyewateringly staggering. Stupid money that I could never imagine spending on an average horse (or any horse for that matter!).

 

[tootsietoo]

Goldenstar, that gives me a good picture in my head of the difference between the two. Over the next year I guess I need to work on 1) spotting the difference between the two (I have never spent a lot of time looking at young horses) and 2) working out exactly how much horse I need.

I guess Grassroots 100, novice, 1* is what the likes of me aspire to, we must be the largest part of the event horse market, hence the weight of money available to spend.

 

[007Equestrian]

Something I was always told is that a horse is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for him! I've heard of fairly average horses going for crazy money because they're what a particular buyer likes, and highly talented, level headed and experienced mounts selling for pennies due to a scar or sarcoid or just not being 'attractive'.

 

[Irish gal]

Goldenstar, that gives me a good picture in my head of the difference between the two. Over the next year I guess I need to work on 1) spotting the difference between the two (I have never spent a lot of time looking at young horses) and 2) working out exactly how much horse I need.

I guess Grassroots 100, novice, 1* is what the likes of me aspire to, we must be the largest part of the event horse market, hence the weight of money available to spend.

You're right, that is absolutely the largest market that is out there. And within that market there are some big name dealers with expensive horses, because they are like a brand. There's higher level event riders again with expensive horses for the lower levels, thanks to their brand.

Then there's different types of horse for that job of BE100. Even among youngsters starting out. There's the Aston Martin: beautiful to look at, lovely mover, well schooled, very ridable, lovely temperament, careful jumper - perfect for that type of rider and priced accordingly at the higher end.

And there's the less obvious ones, you can spot if you look around, perhaps the horse isn't even advertised as an event type but you can see it in him. At that level there's no need for a blood horse, although so many riders want that. A typical ISH, or draught cross, even with plenty of draught would have no problem at that level.

If you use your head and figure out what you need, then you'll have a lot more horses to chose from than the typical lightweight types. For instance a nice moving RC horse could make a lovely eventer at BE100. There are always people having to sell in a hurry, for instance they were made redundant, you just have to keep your eyes and ears open if it's a bargain you want.

 

[tootsietoo]

Yes, it will take a lot more ferreting around adverts in different places to find something nice at the right price! Sadly the buying trip to Ireland has lost its financial appeal in the last few months!

 

[Irish gal]

Yes, it will take a lot more ferreting around adverts in different places to find something nice at the right price! Sadly the buying trip to Ireland has lost its financial appeal in the last few months!

Don't start me on Brexit, is there any end to the financial chaos it has caused! The thing is though, there is still value to be had here, especially if you want a 'quality' horse. You see by the time that Irish horses get to the UK they have been graded by the dealers, the best go to the top end dealers, their prices are big, even for a nice riding horse, it's £10,000 plus.

By coming here, especially to an agent, buyers have the chance to buy one of those horses from source at a competitive price. When I have people over on buying trips they go to the same yards, that those top dealers frequent, but by coming direct they've cut out the dealer. So they are still getting a really nice horse - before the English mark-up has been put on it.

A lot of people, who are after their horse of a lifetime, are happy to put in the effort a trip over requires. They won't be looking for another horse again and really want to get the best and get it right. Others prefer to shop around at home; it's horses for courses as they say!

 

[smja]

A horse is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Trite, yes, but true - and you need to take the seller into account when gauging if their pricing is 'right' or not. How experienced are they? Private or professional?

There's also the fashion trends - a particular bloodline or colour might be 'in' at the moment, which does add to the price.