Very difficult youngster

maisie06

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Visited a friend of mine this evening to have a nosey at a youngster, she's owned it from a foal and it's always been difficult, I've had a few youngsters in the past including weanlings and a pony straight off the new forest and have never met anything quite like this, all have come around within a few months and have been little sweeties.

From day one this pony has been difficult, it's beautiful, well bred but difficult! As a foal it would bury it's head in the corner of the stable and kick out at anyone coming near it, managed to halter break it and left a catch strap on, it had to be stabled from weaning in october until xmas as it would have been impossible to catch, eventually turned out with another friendly level headed youngster of the same age, was finally coming to be caught, still wearing a catching strap but leading to and from yard nicely - better than the other youngster who was being a cheeeky sod and trying it's luck!

Friends foal was aggressive towards her, a nasty bite and it meant it - in the stable it would constantly either rush at the door or rear and box, I helped her with it and was firm, put it in it's place and we were able to go in the stable and tie it up etc...

Now turned out 24/7 with other youngster, this one is really friendly and will come to be caught/fed/scratched whatever, on super grass and having a nice time being babies, but the friend's pony is ...it' s hard to describe so will do bullet points

1. Doesn't seem to like people at all, uses the other pony as a shield will come over but won't allow you to touch it at all
2 . Can be caught eventually...after getting it into a pen
3. I don't like this......has taken to snatching the rope out of your hands and galloping uncontrollably around the field
4. Panic/meltdown first then think later, so , so reactive, once meltdown is over stands and shakes
5. The "aggressive streak as friend put it - I actually think this is a defence mechanisim, I don't like it, I have never seen anything like it, this will be a big strong cob eventually
6, There's a "look" in it's eyes I really dont like, no softness just pure survival instinct, it's as sharp as a razor

It came from a decent stud, had lived out in a herd, the only thing I can think of is that weaning was so traumatic it's never gotten over it, I have advised selling it, it's a lovely looking animal and would do well with a show producer - friend wants a "pet" more or less to have fun with, this pony isn't fun, it's sould destroying! The pony in with it is by the same sire and an absolute poppet, I admit to being totally out of ideas for this one - she's had professional help but the pony goes from being ok to back to it's old self, doesn't help she'd not very confident with it and IMHO a bit soft - but I'm no expert, it doesn't need beating up but it needs a leader, I can help for a while but I don't want to get too involved. Has anyone ever come across a young horse like this and how did it turn out in the end?
 

redredruby

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Very good point. How old is the youngster?
How old? If still a foal then just leave him and deal with him when he is 3 or 4. I didn't do anything with my youngster until then and she is 1000% better behaved then horses that were handled from birth.
 

honetpot

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Hmm, it went straight from weaning to being stabled from, 'October to Christmas'. This is just about the worst thing any body could do unless it was sharing with another youngster. Its learnt that people are going to put it in a box, and difficult behavoiur is perhaps trying to escape a stressful situation. Young horses need horses not people, they learn social interaction, manners and it just good for their long term health if turned out, no matter how cold and wet if its got plenty of forage, being in a box is just about the worst thing you can do for them.
I sometimes buy 'difficult' yearlings, bought because someone wanted a foal, they usually just need to be allowed to be a horse in a herd, no handling unless it the vet or the farrier, and they grow up to be normal. If they want a pet they should get a cat, sorry if that sounds harsh but people realy shouldn't get things they can not look after.
 

Gloi

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My friend bred a few foals and one of them was trouble from day one. As a yearling it was seriously dominant and would attack people in the field, running at them with ears back. He also bullied the other horses in the field as he grew up. Nothing different had happened to it than the other foals who were no bother. Once ridden he was very wilful and scared my friend who sold him to a tall confident young woman who liked a challenge. He was a challenge too, but she liked him and he had a good jump in him. He is now 20 and still as awkward and ornery as ever.
 

Pearlsasinger

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If it did go straight from weaning to being kept in a stable from October to Christmas, I'm not surprised it feels about humans as it obviously does. Friend needs to stop second guessing what might happen, "it would have been impossible to catch", she doesn't know that at all - and now she never will! The poor thing must have been completely traumatised, it should have been in a herd, not left alone, or even with another baby in a box.
I suggest that she sends it back to the breeder, who might be able to rescue the situation and sell it on to someone more sensible.
 

Shay

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You can't do a full work up on a youngster already convinced humans are bad news. Is there anyway to get it turned out long term with a herd? Ideally sowmwhere with a lot of other youngsters. Humans have taught it in the worst possible way that we are to be feared. No wonder the poor thing is difficult. It may well be that there was a challenging streak there to begin with - but with such a horrible start... Depends on its age I suppose - if it is already 3/4 there may be less scope. But if it is still 12 / 24 months - If it is going to have any chance I would have thought it needs to go back out 24/7 in a herd and hope that a year or more of positive experienced interaction can go some way to rescuing the situation.
 

be positive

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Foals can get ulcers, weaning time can cause ulcers, 24/7 stabling is bad for ulcers.
I'd feed as if for ulcers today and book a scoping for asap.

That would be my first thought, foals can get ulcers through stress at weaning time and this has had the extra stress of being kept in alone at a time when it needed company more than anything else, get it scoped before doing anything else and hope that if it has them the mental trauma has not set it on a path where it sees humans as the enemy.
 

TPO

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🤯🤯🤯

It got weaned (& I'm hoping if it is a "decent" stud this was done properly...) and then sold as weaning to your friend who then promptly shut in a 12x12 cell with no equine interaction and no turn out.

That is mental torture.

Why buy a weanling without proper set up, facilities, company & knowledge/experience???

How old is the youngster now?

If this friend is ignorant enough to hhave done as you've written then they are ignorant enough to have missed a lot of things. Foal needs seen by professional(s) and rehomed to someone experienced who can offer turnout with similar aged youngsters, nanny horses and proper handling and training.

I'm usually in the "everyone has to start somewhere" and "we're all learning" camp where you get more engagement and successful if you engage with someone rather than point out the wrongs BUT this is absolutely diabolical if true and this person should not have said horse 🤬
 

irishdraft

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Well if I'm reading this correctly I cannot believe someone would buy a weanling and stable for 3 months is this what happened OP ? If so it's probably worst thing that could have been done . When I bought a weanling I bought another as company they were pretty wild when I got them so stabled in a barn for 2 weeks together then turned out but went and poo picked field twice a day so they gradually got used to me . One of them was always shy and wary but I didn't push it and start doing too much with them until they were 2 by then they were no probs. I think your friend needs to do some serious thinking about her ability to deal with young horses.
 

southerncomfort

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I just had to read the OP through a second time, convinced I must have read it wrong and that no one could be so ignorant that they would think that is in any way an acceptable way to keep a weanling. Frankly it is cruel beyond belief.

The poor little thing must have been terrified and defending himself the only way he could.

Now he has been branded difficult and is subjected to firmer and firmer handling and 'put in his place".

I don't actually know if what has been done can be rectified, I would not be surprised if he is traumatised for life and will always behave defensively now. What I do know is that neither of you can help him now and if you care about him at all you will find him an experienced home where he at least stands a chance of leading a normal and useful life.

I'm sorry for being harsh but this is one of the most upsetting things I've ever read on here.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I just had to read the OP through a second time, convinced I must have read it wrong and that no one could be so ignorant that they would think that is in any way an acceptable way to keep a weanling. Frankly it is cruel beyond belief.

The poor little thing must have been terrified and defending himself the only way he could.

Now he has been branded difficult and is subjected to firmer and firmer handling and 'put in his place".

I don't actually know if what has been done can be rectified, I would not be surprised if he is traumatised for life and will always behave defensively now. What I do know is that neither of you can help him now and if you care about him at all you will find him an experienced home where he at least stands a chance of leading a normal and useful life.

I'm sorry for being harsh but this is one of the most upsetting things I've ever read on here.


And the worst thing is that OP doesn't seem to have recognised the wrong done by her friend to the youngster!
 

SusieT

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Foal sounds like there is no reason to trust humans. You are always going in with an 'agenda' - not surprised it tries to shield itself behind its friend. Turn it away, leave it alone in a herd of youngstock and let it be. More 'firm' handling is only going to lead to a more reactive foal.
 
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Goldenstar

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Poor little thing it will live with consequence of that weaning for the rest of its life unless it’s lucky .
I would get your friend to sell and hopefully it will lucky and find a kind person to teach it how good hanging around with humans can be .
Depressing
 
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TPO

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Re reading this doesn't make it any better. Cant actually believe thread title is "very difficult youngster"?!?! 😥 poor thing hadnt stood a chance and now in the receiving end of "firm handling" to "put it in its place".

Wee thing needs to learn to be a horse
 

Pearlsasinger

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Re reading this doesn't make it any better. Cant actually believe thread title is "very difficult youngster"?!?! 😥 poor thing hadnt stood a chance and now in the receiving end of "firm handling" to "put it in its place".


By someone who tells us that she is experienced with youngsters!
 

JanetGeorge

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How old? If still a foal then just leave him and deal with him when he is 3 or 4. I didn't do anything with my youngster until then and she is 1000% better behaved then horses that were handled from birth.


I would advise strongly against this because if you don't find the cause and treat it, they kick FAR harder and are much stronger when they grow. I have only had one that was 'bad'. I believe he was traumatized by weaning and got ulcers. By the time we came to castrate him he was rearing away and fighting, and THEN I had the 'fun' of treating an infection after that. I thought I'd give im time - a mistake. Once we started to TRY and handle him it was clear he had more 'preference' for members of staff than me - that helped me figure it out. After all, I was the beast who took his Mum away, and then castrated him, then tortured his castration wound. Once I came up with the conclusions, treated him for ulcers - and he improved. Let the staff do the handling - he improved a bit more. But he only improved to be a GOOD horse when I got him off the home where he'd been tortured.

My boy almost certainly had hind gut ulcers from the symptoms he showed - a vet wouldn't have got NEAR him at that stage without a dart gun. So I would strongly suggest something like Acid Ease and minimal handling for 4 weeks - if no improvement, possibly not the problem. But if there IS even a slight improvement, keep up with the Acid Ease and quite handling. Not TOO much - and small steps. Just a pat and a walk away to start with. Getting stern with frightened youngsters will explode right under you.
 

shortstuff99

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I would advise strongly against this because if you don't find the cause and treat it, they kick FAR harder and are much stronger when they grow. I have only had one that was 'bad'. I believe he was traumatized by weaning and got ulcers. By the time we came to castrate him he was rearing away and fighting, and THEN I had the 'fun' of treating an infection after that. I thought I'd give im time - a mistake. Once we started to TRY and handle him it was clear he had more 'preference' for members of staff than me - that helped me figure it out. After all, I was the beast who took his Mum away, and then castrated him, then tortured his castration wound. Once I came up with the conclusions, treated him for ulcers - and he improved. Let the staff do the handling - he improved a bit more. But he only improved to be a GOOD horse when I got him off the home where he'd been tortured.

My boy almost certainly had hind gut ulcers from the symptoms he showed - a vet wouldn't have got NEAR him at that stage without a dart gun. So I would strongly suggest something like Acid Ease and minimal handling for 4 weeks - if no improvement, possibly not the problem. But if there IS even a slight improvement, keep up with the Acid Ease and quite handling. Not TOO much - and small steps. Just a pat and a walk away to start with. Getting stern with frightened youngsters will explode right under you.


TBH I just took it as a very young horse that was scared and being over handled. Leaving them to grow up in a herd with horses fixes this and then can slowly reintroduce handling from people. If they believe that there is an actual physical problem then he will need some form of handling by competent professionals of course.
 

little_critter

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TBH I just took it as a very young horse that was scared and being over handled. Leaving them to grow up in a herd with horses fixes this and then can slowly reintroduce handling from people. If they believe that there is an actual physical problem then he will need some form of handling by competent professionals of course.

I suppose the problem is that at the moment the youngster thinks humans are nasty because of its past experiences. If you now give it no handling at all and allow it to grow up it will become a 3/4 yo that still thinks humans are nasty because you’ve done nothing in the intervening time to show it otherwise. And 3/4 yos can do more damage.
If no errors had been made in its early handling then leaving alone wouldn’t be a problem. But because errors have already been made you need to undo the damage already done before you can turn away.
 

Leo Walker

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Foals can get ulcers, weaning time can cause ulcers, 24/7 stabling is bad for ulcers.
I'd feed as if for ulcers today and book a scoping for asap.

This. Poor little thing was weaned and then kept box rested for 3 months. I would be surprised if ulcers werent present. I'd scope and treat and throw it out into a herd of lovely friendly youngsters. I would avoid handling other than visiting to fuss them all over. The other horses will teach it all it needs to know about people.
 

Peter7917

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We have one similar. He was man handled quite badly into a halter as his first human interaction (by the breeder, friend witnessed) and as such he is very suspicious. He was stabled straight away, albeit with another yearling and I got as far as halter breaking him and getting him to a stage where I could lead him and he would allow me to touch him all over. He has only ever allowed touch while on a halter and could only be caught in from the field when the other yearling was caught in first. So he's done well but is still suspicious.

That is enough for me for now. He's turned away with a herd of other youngsters and will remain so until he's ready to back. He gets visited every day and I can stroke his face while loose in the field. He's suspicious still but he's interested.

I'm happy (as I am with all babies) to just leave him be now. He knows enough. Let babies be babies.
 

Apercrumbie

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Another who is speechless that someone would shut a foal alone in a stable for months - I'm praying that this is a miscommunication and isn't actually the case. Personally I would turn him out with other youngsters but still have some form of daily interaction - poo picking & a scratch, occasionally bringing him in if he will follow another youngster etc until he calms down. But tbh I think this horse will always be "difficult" now through no fault of his own.
 
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