Very scarred tongue?

[MrsCentaur]

I’m a little embarrassed that it’s taken me six weeks to notice, but my new horse has rather a horrible scar on his tongue - my instructor reckons it aligns with where the bit sits, which possibly explain some of the initial tension in his head carriage when ridden (it is getting better now that he has realised that nobody is going to jerk at his mouth but he was quite worried for a while).

I’m not a particularly experienced rider or owner and it seems like an odd site for a scar, though it could well be more common than I have assumed. I do wonder how such a thing could happen - surely not from a bit..?

Would you expect a five-stage vetting to have picked this up? I'm wondering whether the vet was remiss not to notice or whether the vet doesn't look in the mouth or examine the tongue. For what it is worth, I am glad that I didn’t know about it before buying him; he’s a lovely horse, an excellent friend and he belongs exactly where he has ended up.

My instructor thinks that he’s not the sort of horse who would benefit from riding bitless, but I would like to be mindful of his scar when selecting his tack. He’s quite a heavy, whizzy young cob with a habit of speeding up when he is excited or worried, which is basically 90% of the time. I don’t want to lose control or put us at risk but I also want to be very gentle on his mouth (I’m told that at the moment I am being TOO gentle and he would benefit from more contact ‘sort of like a handhold’) - I’m wondering if it’s possible to take this information and compile a shortlist of potential bits to purchase and try, or whether there is a better way to go about ensuring that he is as comfortable as possible. Or is that a how-long-is-a-piece-of-string sort of question? The yard that we are at will help but they are so pressed for time and I don’t want to be annoying with too many questions.

All wisdom gratefully received! Photo of the pudding making besties with the handsome horse in the mirror by way of tax.

 

[Regandal]

I would get a bitfit person out. They will examine his mouth and advise on bit type.
He’s gorgeous by the way!

 

[ycbm]

I suspect that will have happened when someone got hold of his tongue and tried to use it as a gag to look at his teeth or in his mouth. I have heard of horses losing their tongue by biting it off. The scar would be right where you are suggesting, I think.
.

 

[Rumtytum]

No wisdom to impart, just wanted to say he’s gorgeous ?

 

[rextherobber]

No, I can't help either, but just wanted to say, isn't he lovely!

 

[ycbm]

No wisdom to impart, just wanted to say he’s gorgeous ?

No, I can't help either, but just wanted to say, isn't he lovely!

Me three, he is really eye catching!
.

 

[ycbm]

To answer your question a really good vet would have spotted it and if I ever have one vetted in future I will be demanding a full mouth inspection, because tooth issues can be very costly to fix.

But your horse is gorgeous and it shouldn't have affected his value. I'd consult a bit specialist to get him comfortable if I was you.
.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I’ve seen nasty scars caused by chifneys also know a tongue less horse who pulled it off on a horse walker ?

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Lovely horse I have to say! It would be unusual in a horse other than a race trained Tb, but some do carry tongue scars from a tongue being tied down to tightly in training. But I do know of people that have used a tie down to try and stop a horse constantly putting its tongue over the bit. Hateful way to try and solve the issue IMO and can very easily be done too tight or just incorrectly and leave horrible scars.

If he seems at all over sensitive because of the old scarring I would be looking for a bit that gives complete tongue relief and acts more on the bars of the mouth and see if that helps him relax and lose some of that tension. The fact that you are already finding him to be less tense probably indicates it is remembered mouth and tongue pain rather than it is actually still hurting him.

I am very surprised your vet didnt find this at a 5 stage vetting, they are supposed to actually inspect their teeth, not just to compare the age that is claimed on the passport, but to see if there are any obvious issues.

Good luck with him, he is very handsome

 

[TheMule]

I would get a qualified EDT to come and take a really good look in his mouth as the tongue damage may not be in isolation and they will be able to give the best advice

 

[rabatsa]

I had one that gained a scar across his tongue when he got some thin electric rope in his mouth. Someone had dropped the wire rope and the grass had grown through it. He was lucky not to cut the end off his tongue when he stood on the end and paniced. Once it had healed it did not affect him with his riding.

 

[twiggy2]

Tongue twitches are fairly common in some circles, I used to work with a more that had terrible scarring on her tongue due to tongue twitching and it was big enough for the bit to sit right in, it was also wonky si really affected the mares acceptance of the bit, she was sold as the owner could not get on her on the ground or under saddle as she was a very string willed mare.
Toungue twitching is a terrible thing to so to a horse but it does happen.
I would be disappointed that a 5 stage vetting had not included an oral inspection.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I am very surprised your vet didnt find this at a 5 stage vetting, they are supposed to actually inspect their teeth, not just to compare the age that is claimed on the passport, but to see if there are any obvious issues.

Well, I thought this, but when my last horse was vetted by a top referral practice (who is often recommended on here) the vet insisted that teeth are not part of the standard 5 stage. I knew that the horse had a historical missing tooth from a youngster, as the vendor had told me that, so I wanted to be assured that all was well.

So the 'high powered' vet passed the horse without taking any sort of a peek at the mouth during the vetting. It turned out after I'd bought her and brought her home that the horse's mouth was in a heck of a state due to unchecked growth into the diastema from the missing tooth. The horse's teeth were locked together with sharp edges everywhere. If it was not for my utterly brilliant EDT, it may not have ended as well as it did, but it took 2 years to rescue the mouth.

In retrospect, of course I should have insisted that the teeth were checked even if I had to pay extra and/or get a different vet from the practice, but I wasn't expecting there to be a serious problem.

 

[ycbm]

I'm with TP, mouth inspections are not a normal part of a 5 stage vetting. None of the horses I have had vetted as a buyer or a seller have had a mouth inspection.

I would insist on one of I was to vet another horse.
.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Well things must have changed hugely since I had a horse vetted in the UK (admittedly over 25 years ago last time!) - both selling and buying an oral inspection was carried out right at the preliminary stage, obviously not a full EDT examination but at least to determine some indicator of age and i.e if the horse is parrot mouthed, particularly low palate, any obvious sores or blistering in the mouth etc. etc. perhaps one has to request that now?

Come to think of it when my vet here in Ireland checked out my last purchase 2 years ago he also examined the mouth very carefully before he even started on anything else. I did not ask him to do so he just did it as part and parcel of the full vetting. He did point out mild diastema starting that he felt we would need to keep an eye on, which we have. I am pretty sure he would have picked up on any serious scarring of the tongue.

But I can only quote my own experience with vetting, I have no idea what vets may consider the norm in general.

 

[Archangel]

His tongue might have been injured in an accident. My mare tried to jump out of the field, went splat and bit right into her tongue. It healed with just a tear on the edge. It never caused her problems but she was very much a light in the hand horse.

My go to bit is a Neue Schule tranz lozenge especially for horses with big fleshy tongues.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Tongue twitches are fairly common in some circles, I used to work with a more that had terrible scarring on her tongue due to tongue twitching and it was big enough for the bit to sit right in, it was also wonky si really affected the mares acceptance of the bit, she was sold as the owner could not get on her on the ground or under saddle as she was a very string willed mare.
Toungue twitching is a terrible thing to so to a horse but it does happen.
I would be disappointed that a 5 stage vetting had not included an oral inspection.

This is a good shout.
I had a erm, Willy washer out to one of mine that was particularly sharp and I figured (and ran it past her) that she’d be very used to that.
She tried to tongue twitch him. She didn’t come back!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Interesting point though - just checked on Rossdales site, as I did use them a couple of times when I lived in Norfolk and it seems they still do a basic mouth inspection. Obviously not a full on EDT exam but pretty much checking for nothing obvious going on as my vet here in Ireland did.. So perhaps it still depends on which vet you use ? ?‍

 

[Upthecreek]

I have never sold or bought a horse that didn’t have it’s mouth looked at during the vetting. One I was considering buying had some serious issues with wolf teeth discovered at the vetting and another was assessed by the vet to be several years older than claimed by the seller, based on his teeth.

 

[MrsCentaur]

I had to look up tongue twitching and I feel quite faint now! What a horrible practice.

I might write a note to the vet just to let her know that he has a scar and it was missed; I won't make a fuss about it, but she did check his teeth and I think she should know that something wasn't picked up, if only as an opportunity for future growth. That said, I'm glad that it wasn't observed at the time because I probably wouldn't have bought him, and he is absolutely meant to be here with us. I've learned a lesson too and will make sure that a full mouth examination is included in any future vetting that I might commission. He has just seen the dentist and had a wolf tooth out (that the vet did pick up on during the vetting) and the dentist was unconcerned about anything else in his mouth, but I might get him back for another look and just to point out to me anything that we might benefit from knowing about when caring for this particular horse. And getting a bit person out is a great idea - I'll do that too, we'll find something that suits him easier that way. He is picking up voice commands super quickly as well, which is making a real difference to his fidgety-whizziness when he's not sure what he's doing. I love this boy.

Thank you all so much for the lovely comments, too! He's such a sweetheart: gentle, affectionate and playful on the ground and so eager to please when ridden. It feels like such a privilege to have a horse of my own at last, to be responsible for his education, his well-being and his future - I hope very much to live up to the responsibility of being his person.

 

[Upthecreek]

I had to look up tongue twitching and I feel quite faint now! What a horrible practice.

I might write a note to the vet just to let her know that he has a scar and it was missed; I won't make a fuss about it, but she did check his teeth and I think she should know that something wasn't picked up, if only as an opportunity for future growth. That said, I'm glad that it wasn't observed at the time because I probably wouldn't have bought him, and he is absolutely meant to be here with us. I've learned a lesson too and will make sure that a full mouth examination is included in any future vetting that I might commission. He has just seen the dentist and had a wolf tooth out (that the vet did pick up on during the vetting) and the dentist was unconcerned about anything else in his mouth, but I might get him back for another look and just to point out to me anything that we might benefit from knowing about when caring for this particular horse. And getting a bit person out is a great idea - I'll do that too, we'll find something that suits him easier that way. He is picking up voice commands super quickly as well, which is making a real difference to his fidgety-whizziness when he's not sure what he's doing. I love this boy.

Thank you all so much for the lovely comments, too! He's such a sweetheart: gentle, affectionate and playful on the ground and so eager to please when ridden. It feels like such a privilege to have a horse of my own at last, to be responsible for his education, his well-being and his future - I hope very much to live up to the responsibility of being his person.

You may well find his tension and whizziness reduces as he truly settles in and gets to know you. Making sure he is comfortable, both in tack/equipment and in what is being asked of him is really important for your progression. He sounds like a sensitive chap with a lovely temperament who tries very hard to do the right thing and you sound like a caring and thoughtful owner, which is a great place to start.