Very sore back... what could it be?

catembi

catembi

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 March 2005
Messages
13,262
Location
N Beds
Visit site
Ideas, please...
frown.gif


Adrian is a 7 yo ISH used for BD & BSJA. He's naturally laid back, but has been getting progressively slower & more reluctant to work. V recently been bitey to groom on RHS & cross to tack up. This is what I've tried so far:

Chiro - found soreness on back LHS under saddle & RHS behind saddle. Also found WOW airbag on LHS at the back had deflated.
shocked.gif
blush.gif


Got WOW repaired & refitted. In the 2 weeks since, I've been having a sit-on to see if he's improving, waiting a day or 2, having another sit on, etc. I'm a small, light rider.

Wed - had the vet out as not improving. Did bloods. Results are back but I don't know what they are as they don't return my calls. Started on iron tonic provided by vet. Rested pending results.

Today - decided to have a sit-on. Bitey on RHS to groom; cross to girth. Reluctant to do much under saddle; kept wanting to stop. Wouldn't canter & stopped when asked to. Trans from walk to trot shuffly with head in air. Came in after a few minutes as it was clear he's getting worse rather than better.

Does this sound like KS?? Everything else is normal - seems chirpy, eating, not coughing etc. I'd have thought that if the probs were related to the period while his saddle was deflated, then by now he'd be showing some signs of improvement?

Now that I look back, I think that we've been heading this way for maybe a year, but cos he's naturally idle, it's been v hard to spot the transition from idleness to something worse. I only realised that something might be up as soon as he got bitey rather than just being slow.
crazy.gif
frown.gif
 
My horse has suffered from a sore back since I bought him 2 years ago. Nothing major - but requiring regular physio.

He went terribly lame in June, and was found to have a problem with his pedal bones. With that diagnosis, and subsequent treatment (remedial farriery) his back issues have totally vanished. He was obviously compensating through his back for pain in his feet....

Worth a think on for your horse maybe??
 
sounds like a horse in a lot of discomfort.
i'd try a totally different saddle for at least a few months.
the trouble is that they take a long time to forget pain. i'd prob give him a few weeks off, lots of massage, chiro treatment again if necessary, and then start again with something totally different.
if you trust him enough, maybe try bareback (on a pad if necessary) and see if he's dramatically different...?
 
Thanks... some good suggestions.

I normally ride him bareback once a week just sitting on a nuumed numnah as my dressage trainer's obsessed with bareback to learn 'feel'...

I've tried him bareback & TBH, he's much the same. Wants to stop all the time, doesn't want to trot, shuffly trans with head up if I make him, won't canter & grinds to a halt if asked to canter.

Same on the lunge. Dawdles along & then if chased up, bucks & squeals in protest & then carries on dawdling.

The thing is, I haven't been 100% myself for quite a while, so sometimes I'd start schooling but couldn't really get motivated & he couldn't be bothered either, so it was hard to tell whose 'fault' it was. Since my hysterectomy, I've been firing on all cylinders, so it's become apparent that the lack of fwd momentum isn't to do with me being feeble.

I think he def is very sore. I've tried him in my other horse's saddle which the fitter confirmed is a good fit, but it doesn't seem to make that much difference.

Arrrgggghhhh, horses! I was hoping that once I'd recovered from my op, we'd be ready to take on the world, but sadly nothing with horses ever works out how it's supposed to.
 
What blood tests is vet doing? Are you using a purely equine vet?

I would be wanting a proper lameness workup - far more "back pain" comes from lameness than from a primary problem in the back.

Let us know how things go. x x
 
If he was mine I would test the back. If the back reacted I would get it treated. If the back was not a problem (or if once treated still having problems) I would insist on having scans done for hind suspensory problems.

Symptoms I have witnessed of PSD have been lack of desire to go forward, bucking, inability to 'sit' on back end, difficulty in transitions, unwillingness to work.

Please note that back problems also often go hand on hand with suspensory problems.

Good luck
 
Oh dear. Was hoping for something not very serious & relatively fixable.

Having lost Catembi only 2 1/2 years ago, I've had enough of the rollercoaster. If this turns out to be serious enough to put paid to BSJA, I think I'm going to sell the lorry, have a break from it all and accept that I've got a field ornament for the rest of his natural life, which as he's 7 could be some time seeing as my old mare is 36.

TayloredEquestrian, you've just described exactly how he's been behaving.

Oh well, he lives at home so it's not as if I'm paying livery for him. Someone remind me why we bother with horses...
 
Think about contacting Equine Touch practitioner--learning to do basic level yourself if a work up seems beneficial to horse--they will definitely find where horse is uncomfortable and will massage to relax the horse.

Someone remind me why we bother with horses... because it really is not always bad news, ups and downs but usually many more ups--look at your mare still around at 36
 

Doesn't sound like KS to me - unless he particularly bucks on landing or going down a drop??

One of ours had a really sore back two years ago. I had a saddle fitter come out to fit a new saddle as the old one was awful and he flat out refused to move when ridden, although would lunge fine. I took him to the vets pronto and they xrayed him for kissing spine but found nothing. The thing that did the trick was 2 weeks bute and box rest, then 2 weeks limited turnout. I also got a completely new latex type saddle as he flybucked horribly in anything else. Touch wood he's been fine since. A word to the wise though, if they've had saddle problems in the past, it can take a couple of weeks before they truly settle into a new saddle - even one that is comfy and fits. Mine bucked like mad for the first two weeks just because he was afraid it would hurt. When he finally twigged that it was ok, he was a lot more relaxed.

However, I echo the concern about PSD. Very often they have it bilaterally and it's impossible to spot. A decent vet will be able to nerve block it and rule it out just for peace of mind.
 
I had a gelding displaying all symptoms of KS and on xraying vet found nothing, this horse was built downhill and very short backed too, in the end after a lot of research we realised that he did it to himself all the time, in the field he would fly buck constantly just enjoying life, and it was after these sessions he would display sore back tendencies. Everything elses was checked thoroughly and what we did in the end was actually to increase his workload and made sure we rode him very correctly, he was not so full of himself cos he was worked hard, but the more work he had the better he was.

Our vet said there are masses of horses that display symptoms that could be KS, but on xrayng very few of them actually have it.
 
KS seems to be the 'in' thing at the moment to worry about.

My tb mare had a KS op a couple of years back I had never heard of it at the time so had little information about it.

Her behaviour was explosive one moment you would be trotting really nice and forward and the next she would not give you any warning and just buck or try kicking out at the fence of the school. She would also run backwards and bronc.

The only way I can describe it was as if you touched a nerve as it used to happen so quick. I would not say it made her lethargic it made her quirky and angry. It took a scintigraphy scan and x-rays to diagnose. I hope this helps. Good Luck
 
H'mm, it's sounding less & less like KS & more like PSD. He is lazy & cross when worked, & he only bucks if I'm bullying him to make him go fwd, i.e. in response to smack or spur. Incidentally, neither work any more... he will *not* go fwd & if bullied, will stop. (Not riding him any more as it's not helping.)

I had a 5 stage before I bought him in April 2007. It said he was intermittently 1/10 lame on the right hind when lunged on concrete, but the vet pointed it out & then passed him cos he said that most horses would have this issue lunged on concrete on a small circle. So maybe it's been there all along. However, the right hind is excluded on my (£70 per month...) insurance...

What happens insurance-wise if it's bilateral but worse on the right...

I s'pose the only way we'll get to the bottom of this is a full lameness workup.
frown.gif
Dreading taking him to the vets as the last time we went there, it was to drop Catembi off to be PTS & we went home with an empty lorry.
frown.gif
 
I actually used thermography to give the first indication of PSD. Average cost approx £65 for whole body scan.

If PSD bilateral it would depend what treatment you went for. I used the hydrotherapy spa on my boy which treats all 4 legs at once so maybe just ask your vet to put one leg down on info to insurance.

PM if you would like andy more details
 
I know you love your saddle, but I would give him 10 days off being ridden, and work him on a pessoa for that time on the lowest setting, to get him to stretch his topline and really get him working forward in it (don't be afraid to chase him to make him go!) I would the try a different saddle. I only say this because if it PSD the lunging will show it up very quickly through not working through from behind properly (use poles etc on the lunge too to really see him working from the ground). From the fact he is sore under the saddle and behind the saddle, I would say it is the saddle that is causing the probs...
 
I would suggest that the unwillingness to go forward and the girthiness woudl point to possible Kissing Spine, but I would get the vet to give him a proper lameness work up. I am annoyed that your vet won't return your calls, how disgusting, I would be thinking of changing my vets asap. Does your horse buck/rear/bolt, does he continually change hind legs in canter so he is dissunited? Does he walk off when mounting. Does he change legs on the lunge? All these are signs of KS, but they can also be signs of 101 other things too, any thing from general soreness of a muscle to a problem with teeth/legs and about a million other things in between. Try not to worry and get him assessed by taking him to the vets for the day. They will walk trot and canter him on the lunge, see him lunged on hard standing, do flexion tests, back dipping tests (sorry don't know proper word) and nerve blocks. They will try to get to the route of the problem and may suggest x-rays or worse case scenario a bone scan. Ring them, and if they won't return your calls swap to a decent vet. Good luck hon. x
 
Hi Taylored Equestrian. Just out of interest and not being funny if you have made a mistake, but did you say £65 for thermography, or did you miss a 0 off the end? I am sure you must have.... didn't you????
confused.gif
 
Hello Applecart,

No he doesn't buck, rear or bolt. He only bucks if I whack him to make him go fwd & then it's kicking his back legs out rather than a 'proper' buck. Canter is (or rather, was...) very established. He'd strike off on the correct lead 99% of the time, never changed behind & would do a fig of 8 on both reins starting with true canter, keeping the same lead into counter canter for the 2nd circle then crossing back into true canter again. (If you see what I mean...)

Now I don't know cos he WILL NOT canter AT ALL. Altho he does seem able to chase Jenny or the dog...

Will phone the vets again in a minute but I feel bad about being a nuisance.
 
I am afraid I think this may be PSD - very similar behaviour that my horse displayed - difficult behaviour.

If you can, take your horse to the vets and get them scanned - purely due to them having better scanning equipment than the portables.

With PSD bilaterally (sp) there is often very little lameness and they will compensate through their back resulting in soreness.
 
Well, the mystery deepens...

Just heard from the vets & apparently his bloods show that he's fighting off a virus, which would be enough to make him sluggish. I'm not convinced that it's the full picture. For now I've got to rest him & carry on with the iron supplement from the vets, then bring him back into work & see what happens.

I suspect we will be in the same position cos, with hindsight, his performance has been on the decline for ages. Just means another couple of weeks waiting for the virus to go before we can do any further investigations.

The virus might be making him sluggish, but I doubt it would make him do biting faces when I'm grooming the RHS...???
 
Hi, best friends horse had a bad virus last autumn, was very sluggish and low, took at least 3 months to start to improve and feel better in himself, the vets never really knew what it was, just showed in the blood tests.

Good luck will keep fingers crossed for you
smile.gif
 
You know your horse. you are paying the bill, if you want the horse scanned they should scan it. If they won't, then do as someone else suggested and find another vet.

PSD is notoriously hard to diagnose, many vets miss it and will look at all other options first. I think CBanglo and also Ronaldo (not sure if this was the right user name) both had a hard time diagnosing.

Stick to your guns and demand what you want.
 
I think I'll rest him for a bit in case it affects the other tests. For example, flexions... if he WON'T trot on, then they're not really going to be very useful.

I am pretty sure that something, somewhere is hurting & I feel a complete b*tch for not working it out sooner & being so free with the whip & spurs, but it's been so gradual that I put the declining enthusiasm down to him maturing (was 4 when I got him & quite wahey), schooling issue or my cr*p riding at comps.

Once upon a time, he was nearly as bad as Catembi sj i.e. would run off & jump whatever caught his eye regardless of whether it was on the course or not, nearly jumped out of the warm-up over the post & rail, I couldn't hold him, but recently I've had to **make** him jump. We've been up to 1 m 25 in lessons so he shouldn't be struggling with 70/80 cms.

Why didn't I realise sooner that something's up?????
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think I'll rest him for a bit in case it affects the other tests. For example, flexions... if he WON'T trot on, then they're not really going to be very useful.

I am pretty sure that something, somewhere is hurting & I feel a complete b*tch for not working it out sooner & being so free with the whip & spurs, but it's been so gradual that I put the declining enthusiasm down to him maturing (was 4 when I got him & quite wahey), schooling issue or my cr*p riding at comps.

Once upon a time, he was nearly as bad as Catembi sj i.e. would run off & jump whatever caught his eye regardless of whether it was on the course or not, nearly jumped out of the warm-up over the post & rail, I couldn't hold him, but recently I've had to **make** him jump. We've been up to 1 m 25 in lessons so he shouldn't be struggling with 70/80 cms.

Why didn't I realise sooner that something's up?????

[/ QUOTE ]

Hindsights a wonderful thing
frown.gif
don't beat yourself up over this, 'if only they could talk' springs to mind. Just do whats right now I hope he will be fine after a rest at grass.
 
Hi there.

My cob is in the process of rehab since being diagnosed with a sprain of his supraspinous ligament and muscle damage on one side in his lumbar area. He had a full work up - ultrasound and xrays at the vets, his clinical signs were similar to your horses and has had badly fitting in the past.

A full work up would defo be the way forward - i kept putting it off and the problem escalated to major bucks and rears.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top