Very wet ground, recently barefoot, Cleantrax & White Line Separation!

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PaulnasherryRocky

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Another long winded post from me - sorry in advance!

I've got a couple of question regarding white line separation, exercise and also cleantrax...

White line separation / background info -
Since taking my boys shoes off a few weeks ago, his fronts have started some white line separation which stones got caught in and made him lame. I got the stones out and "plugged" the bits that were separating with Field Paste mushed together with cotton wool, which seems to stay put in the field and so far no more stones have got in.
Our fields aren't boggy, but they are wet, the yard is wet and even his stable is a bit leaky - so I think this could be one of the many causes, as well as some arthirtus and some "changes" in his laminae and some navicular changes (He had an MRI back in July)
Any one of those could also have gone towards causing this I think - as I really do think i've got control of his diet so would like to be able to rule that out as a cause!

QUESTIONS..

Exercise - He is currently out of work due to some collateral ligament damage which was diagnosed earlier in the year, but he has been sound (touch wood) and I have started doing inhand walking with him up to 20minutes, which even when his shoes came off he was doing brilliantly pacing out nicely.

Providing he still looks sound (though sometimes a little pottery on stones as shoes being off is a new thing) should I be continuing the in hand walking, or will that make the white line separation worse?

Should I wait until I have some boots for him before I walk him again? (Waiting for his next trim in a couple of weeks time)

Cleantrax - I'd like to sort the white line issues asap, and have been recommended a cleantrax soak to hit the fungal infection.

The price isn't an issue, however my question is - if the ground remains this wet, is there any point doing a cleantrax soak, when he will be going back out in the same paddock that possibly contributed to the issue in the first place?

Should I wait until it is drier before doing the soak?

He is out in the day and in at night - I detol soaked his feet and kept him in yesterday just to have one day of dry feet, but mentally he's not great when kept in for a long time (he doesn't go mad or anything, he just looks slow and depressed)

Sorry again for what is probably a long question that doesn't make a lot of sense....all help and advice appreciated as always!
 
It would probably be helpful if you could post some pics, sole view and side view. (with the sole,, co lateral grooves, central sulchus and WL really well scrubbed out)
 
IME residual WLD from shoes just takes a bit of time to grow out as the start to have a tighter connection. Ditto sole pic would be helpful.

I’d keep walking without boots if he is striding ok on tarmac and not mincing.

I’ve not cleantraxed myself, we could be waiting a long time for it to be drier and it’s not going to do any harm.
 
IMHO it’s always worth doing a cleantrax soak to clear up the current bugs, though you may need to repeat it more frequently atm as it’s so wet.

I do all four feet with one bottle on my long suffering senior Cushing’s mare. I soak both fronts for about 45 mins, then remove the liquid and bag the feet up to fumigate them. I then use the part used liquid in poultice boots on her hinds. She stands munching a haynet while I sit in the corner of the stable supervising her.

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Just a comment on the Cleantrax. My farrier recommended it for my Cushings Draft mare when she had a white line infection. I ordered some and waited 2 weeks for delivery, so in the meantime, I sprayed her feet daily x 2 with Teatree oil spray and the infection had cleared up by the time the Cleantrax was delivered. I love Teatree oil for all sorts of stuff.
 
ester said:
Baktakil 55 says for environmental use only, not for use on animals.
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I’ve was recommended it by a farrier for spraying on feet and it’s always worked a treat, it’s used a lot by farmers for foot rot in sheep so not sure where to not for use on animals comes from.
 
I think they word it carefully, ‘freedom from enviromental build up’ it’s a complete ballache to find a data sheet for! Osmonds pdf says nothing. But some sellers definitely not for animal use.
Obv I also use things that aren’t but it’s useful to know the ifs and whys before you use something.
 
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Landcruiser said:
The other thing you could try is Sole Cleanse spray from Red Horse, can be used daily.
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This, or Red Horse Field Paste which works better/longer than Sole Cleanse in muddy conditions.

I’d still start with a Cleantrax soak, though. The treatment permeates deeper than spray on or cream on products can.
 
When my horses shoes were first pulled he had seedy toe in one foot and crumbly material in the white lines of his other feet. I scooped all the mud and rubbish out of all crevices daily and sprayed with sole cleanse. It was all cleared up within about 5 weeks
 
Firstly thank you all for replying, some really useful stuff and thanks for the pictures as well!

I've been a bit rubbish at taking pictures, but do have a few random ones since his shoes came off on the 16th - I dont have all of the angles you need right now but need to take all of those pictures tomorrow for measuring up and sending to the Hoof Boutique to work out which boots would be best for us.

His backs are doing better than his fronts - I didn't get pictures but all of his feet did originally have the big "butt crack" lines up the frog which are slowly on their way out (some more than others)

Heres a few pics that i've got along the way, some are blurry and some you can see stones in the white line but also some field paste still stuck it in from the day before - I will upload some better pictures tomorrow when theyre all clean and scrubbed as im not sure how useful these ones are!

It looks like the white line had already started to come apart when his shoes were on, as looking back I can see it on the pictures from the 16th - at least now I can deal with the problem instead of covering it up I guess. The problem is worse in the FL which had the ligament damage and it does look worse now than in the below pics I think.
 

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What I’d do. (And it’s a huge hassle).



Clean trax all four feet. Need two bottles for this. 45 minutes soaking, 45 minutes gassing per foot. (Use the large amount of water recommended on bottle, as pressure to get into feet cracks important.)



Then apply a Size 4 (or bigger if needed) nappy to each foot. Keep feet clean so nappy on foot without touching floor. Make a decent duct tape boot over each nappy to keep it on.



Wait 2 hours for feet to be really dry. Apply hoof armor to feet. Small amount needed, spread with gloves have as thin layer.



Protects, antibacterial, works on WLD. Need gun, cartridges, nozzles, gloves. Comes as starter kit. (If quick one nozzle does 4 feet snd cartridge does 8-12 feet).



Apply talc liberally to sole after hoof armor, pat talc before putting foot down. Leave horse standing somewhere dry for a few hours. Then will be bonded to foot and waterproof.



https://hoofmanship.weebly.com/hoofarmor.html
 
Thanks Bouncing Ball, that sounds like a solid plan - it will be worth the effort to rid the problem (I'm a big worrier!)

Thank you so much for the talc tip btw! I've been putting the field paste on (smooshed with cotton wool) and then waiting with his leg in the air for the surface to dry ...luckily he is very patient

Heading to a friends shop tomorrow - she sells hoof armour and red horse sole cleanse so I can use these until the cleantrax arrives.

I take it buying the cleantrax boots is worth the extra money and an old feed bag wouldn't survive too well? During my diluted-detol soak a couple of days ago we got a hole in our sainsburys bag, so that wasn't very effective!
 
I would definitely crack on with a cleantrax soak, it’s a faff but it is good stuff. I’d use whatever red horse products you need after/in between soaks. I’d also make sure I’d got plenty of nappies, vet wrap and duct tape in, in case of abscess.

For the in hand walking I’d get some solemate pads and duct tape them on. They make the world of difference and are brilliant. To reshape them, put them on top of half a mug of water in the microwave and it will steam them back into shape and they’ll be ready to go (you can put them in boiling water but then you have to wait for them to dry. This can be smelly- if there’s a microwave at the yard this is better than having moaning at home :D
 
BigPony said:
I would definitely crack on with a cleantrax soak, it’s a faff but it is good stuff. I’d use whatever red horse products you need after/in between soaks. I’d also make sure I’d got plenty of nappies, vet wrap and duct tape in, in case of abscess.

For the in hand walking I’d get some solemate pads and duct tape them on. They make the world of difference and are brilliant. To reshape them, put them on top of half a mug of water in the microwave and it will steam them back into shape and they’ll be ready to go (you can put them in boiling water but then you have to wait for them to dry. This can be smelly- if there’s a microwave at the yard this is better than having moaning at home :D
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Thanks big pony - this might be a really silly question, but are the soul mate pads that you mean for human feet? I can't find an equine version on google, but I guess if cut to shape these would still work!

In terms of abscess stuff, I thought I'd bought 1kg of epsom salts for a hot soak on amazon, but turns out I bought 10kg...maybe I can use some for a nice bath to soothe my achy muscles after spending hours knelt over with a headtorch on searching for rubbish stuck in his feet...
 
The shoes came off my new horse exactly 2 weeks ago so I am more or less at the same stage you are. There is no way I will clean trax and I don't use products on the feet other than iodine occasionally ( or peroxide if I really had a problem) To my mind the WLD from shoes takes time to grow out. To get rid of gravel in the WL I wire brush it twice a day. To keep the horse comfortable and able to be led in hand in your case (or in my case be ridden daily) I boot although for such short walks you may not need boots if he is comfortable. Then I am patient and let it all grow down trimming it to encourage a tight WL as we go.



Hopefully your frogs won't get trimmed as much in future trims.
 
Thanks Paddy - Out of interest, why wouldn't you use clean trax?

I am probably being impatient and do have a tendancy to just throw everything at minor problems, just the more I read about WLD the more I go in to a state of panic!

Hope your horse continues to do well barefoot!

(notes RE the frog trim - not sure if i should leave farrier to it and see what he does, or ask in advance for him not to touch them. He barefoot trims a lot of my friends horses and all of them seem to do really well!)
 
PaulnasherryRocky said:
Thanks Paddy - Out of interest, why wouldn't you use clean trax?

I am probably being impatient and do have a tendancy to just throw everything at minor problems, just the more I read about WLD the more I go in to a state of panic!

Hope your horse continues to do well barefoot!

(notes RE the frog trim - not sure if i should leave farrier to it and see what he does, or ask in advance for him not to touch them. He barefoot trims a lot of my friends horses and all of them seem to do really well!)
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I tried it many years ago and was not very impressed so I don't see the point in a long soak and the hassle of using it for little benefit.
I'm afraid also I don't go much on sole mates. Duck taping them on is a complete hassle IMHO. It you want something on the feet boots are a lot quicker and far easier to use. If you want pads then use a boot you can put a pad in.

I would only trim a frog if there was a problem. I can see your farrier may have done on a first trim to see what was there but I feel they do better if they are allowed to callous untrimmed.

Lots of people worry when they take the shoes off their first horse and spend lots of time "foot fiddling" Time is the healer you need. You cannot rush things. Breathe :D:D
 
PaulnasherryRocky said:
Thanks Bouncing Ball, that sounds like a solid plan - it will be worth the effort to rid the problem (I'm a big worrier!)

Thank you so much for the talc tip btw! I've been putting the field paste on (smooshed with cotton wool) and then waiting with his leg in the air for the surface to dry ...luckily he is very patient

Heading to a friends shop tomorrow - she sells hoof armour and red horse sole cleanse so I can use these until the cleantrax arrives.

I take it buying the cleantrax boots is worth the extra money and an old feed bag wouldn't survive too well? During my diluted-detol soak a couple of days ago we got a hole in our sainsburys bag, so that wasn't very effective!
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ive bought two soaking boots as I’ve never had much joy with other bags etc. Another tip I read recently is to put travel boots over the soaking boots whilst in use to secure them. Think need 2 so can have 2 feet on the go as it’s already such a long process. And cleantrax solution only good for 90 minutes. So two feet at 45 minutes a foot. I do both fronts, then both backs. I do have some thick strong bags for the 45 minutes fuming, that I reinforce on bottom.

As in I soak front two feet in cleantrax boots, after 45 minutes, I remove boots, keeping liquid in. Wrap front feet in plastic bag and duct tape. Move cleantrax soaking boots to hind feet. After further 45 minutes, I pour liquid away (good still for floor disinfectant) and fume hind feet in cleantrax boots.

if you are near surrey, can lend you soaking boots / Hoof armor gun.

Cheap talc is great for drying hoof paste. Or I find Artimud stays in longer than hoof paste.

The advice I was given is once you’ve applied hoof armor, foot is sealed, so no need to use hoof paste / Artimud or anything topical for at least a week.
 
paddy555 said:
I tried it many years ago and was not very impressed so I don't see the point in a long soak and the hassle of using it for little benefit.
Breathe :D:D
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I’d agree with the not panicking comment. But personally I think cleantrax is magic disinfectant that penetrates deep into the foot without doing any harm to living tissue. It’s not cheap and massive faff but I’ve found it very good when I’ve used on and off over the last decade. It’s made a huge difference to a number of horses. And gets pretty good reviews.

re sole mates / EP pads, personally I’d use in hoof boots but I’ve found hard to stay put outside boots.

I have found nappies with a half mug water in middle to fluff up and a piece of cut camping mat outside to reinforce the toe and all encased i. A duct tape boot makes a quick cheap boot replacement.
 
bouncing_ball said:
I’d agree with the not panicking comment. But personally I think cleantrax is magic disinfectant that penetrates deep into the foot without doing any harm to living tissue. It’s not cheap and massive faff but I’ve found it very good when I’ve used on and off over the last decade. It’s made a huge difference to a number of horses. And gets pretty good reviews.

re sole mates / EP pads, personally I’d use in hoof boots but I’ve found hard to stay put outside boots.

I have found nappies with a half mug water in middle to fluff up and a piece of cut camping mat outside to reinforce the toe and all encased i. A duct tape boot makes a quick cheap boot replacement.
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If you have found them good then that is excellent. I have tried all these various ideas as they have evolved over the past 15 or so years. I have gone back to doing what I did for the preceding 20 years which is remove the shoes, trim, deal with any infection and ride. My first horse nearly 50 years ago (Jeez!) was my introduction to barefoot. He couldn't be shod as he had been hit around by men. He was with me barefoot for 22 years. I have no idea what the underneath of his feet were like, he wouldn't let me look. He did however go over all surfaces including very harsh forestry tracks. All without endless lotions, potions and worry.


The only "invention" that I have found to be of real value is using boots to get shod horses barefoot more quickly and far more easily for the horse.
 
I've had no success at all with repeated cleantrax treatment of my TB's seedy toe, which he arrived with a year ago. However, fingers crossed, it looks like Red Horse Hoof Stuff has cracked it as the hole is shallower every week I renew the packing.


.
 
Yuletide Carols Bublé Murders said:
I've had no success at all with repeated cleantrax treatment of my TB's seedy toe, which he arrived with a year ago. However, fingers crossed, it looks like Red Horse Hoof Stuff has cracked it as the hole is shallower every week I renew the packing.


.
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the hoof stuff was the only product I had success with. It was with someone's horse just out of shoes, it was so contracted, the heels high, the grooves deep and the poor little frog somewhere lost with a very infected central sulchus. That was an exceptionally bad foot and the HS stayed in and I feel probably did help plus the fact it was very deep so it stayed in and didn't need frequently re packing.
 
I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that OP doesn’t have boots and might find that the feet change shape a lot in the beginning. I found that boots that fitted easily with pads tended to be boots like boas and old macs, which were fine for slow work early on but didn’t hold up for faster work and mud, so I switched to scoots. I could have stuck with taping in the beginning and saved myself some money. OP may not need boots going forward.

I didn’t find it that hard to make a quick duct tape square and whack them on, especially as it’s hopefully a short term thing and doesn’t need to last. It’s also a better way of ensuring the whole sole is stimulated as you can cut the pad slightly bigger than the hoof.

It’s interesting different experiences if cleantrax. I had 2 with all sorts of weird and deep seated infections and it definitely helped clear them, I’m going back about 13 years so if red horse stuff was around then I didn’t know about it. I don’t currently use it as just need to deal with the occasional bit of thrush or minor wall separation so hoof stuff, field paste or artimud do the trick.
 
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