Vet cock-ups - Veterinary Defence Society

alainax

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Are they loss adjusters? As they are on the vets side and working in the best interest of the vets/ vets insurance, you may want your own representation.

I’d not be answering any questions until I sought advice, as everything you do say may be used against you.
 
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JanetGeorge

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They are an insurance company - but run by vets - for vets. He just wants to know what I base my losses on, the cost of keeping a horse in work (when there's no point) and keeping it in the field until it's sorted etc. And wants permission to get copies of her clinical notes from 3 Counties. I've already DEMANDED all my horses' clinical notes (they offered to send them to my new vets - but they have to give them to me. Then I'll keep the ones on horses I've sold - in case there are any questions - and I'll pass the rest to my new vets. I'm also letting the Veterinary College know that they won't agree to mediation (and that will go against them if we end up in court.)
 

Pearlsacarolsinger

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I think, having read their description of themselves and what they do on their website, I would want legal representation when dealing with them. It might be worth talking to your own insurance company, even if that is your home insurance.
 

JanetGeorge

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lol, I have talked to my insurers too often in the past year. Latest is a member of staff planning on suing me because she fell off the quietest horse I have and broke her leg. It got complicated and she's been on SSP+ for 4 months now! I really don't think a lawyer could help me with this: another member of staff (who is loyal and talkative) was dragged in to see the lawyer of the girl planning on suing me - and about all he wanted her to tell him was if you could teach a horse NOT to spook - and what do they spook at.
 

SusieT

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I'd be careful of mentioning any names on here as it isn't going to help your case to be honest - you are obviously identifiable and have named them above..
If you've had to speak to your insureres a lot sometimes it is worth reviewing whether you are right and everyone else is wrong or if you may not be 100% right...
 
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Would say you're entitled to take legal advice (perhaps from someone with experience in similar cases if you can find them or if you have any legal cover in your insurance then I really would get their advice on which questions you should / shouldn't respond to / how to respond?) given that they are essentially acting as the vets legal assistance but if you're of the opinion that them refusing mediation reflects badly on them then it is likely a similarly dim view will be taken of you refusing to respond to VDS. If you've reported to RCVS then that's why the VDS are involved and asking you questions (and they'll be asking the practice questions as well) as that's sorta their job at the end of the day.
 

TheMule

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It's obviously hard to know without the whole story but I would imagine vets are only liable to pay back the cost of any 'incorrect' treatment, they cannot be liable for keep fees etc. You could spend a lot of time and money fighting this
 

JanetGeorge

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I'd be careful of mentioning any names on here as it isn't going to help your case to be honest - you are obviously identifiable and have named them above..
No - I haven't. 3 Counties were the experts that had to try and sort the problem out - 8 months later than it SHOULD have been done. My beef is not with them.

If you've had to speak to your insureres a lot sometimes it is worth reviewing whether you are right and everyone else is wrong or if you may not be 100% right...
Unfortunately, when you have horses and employ staff, there are good chances of accidents. I had 2 last year when I'd had none for years. They were both genuine accidents - the 1st the rider knew it was her 'fault' (if you can blame any young horse for spooking and throwing a rider.) The second is blaming her accident on her horse's natural reaction to another horse (or a squirrel, she doesn't know what spooked the ruddy thing). But people try things on. When my friends were hearing from other vets in the practice that they were expecting trouble over THIS horse, they weren't being too careful!
 

JanetGeorge

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Would say you're entitled to take legal advice (perhaps from someone with experience in similar cases if you can find them or if you have any legal cover in your insurance then I really would get their advice on which questions you should / shouldn't respond to / how to respond?) given that they are essentially acting as the vets legal assistance but if you're of the opinion that them refusing mediation reflects badly on them then it is likely a similarly dim view will be taken of you refusing to respond to VDS. If you've reported to RCVS then that's why the VDS are involved and asking you questions (and they'll be asking the practice questions as well) as that's sorta their job at the end of the day.
Oh, I intend to respond - just like an idea of how to approach it. I haven't reported them to RCV (yet) - just asked advice on my entitlement to clinical notes. VDS is involved purely as the insurers - that was the vet's decision because SHE said that "mediation won't help".
 

Keith_Beef

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lol, I have talked to my insurers too often in the past year. Latest is a member of staff planning on suing me because she fell off the quietest horse I have and broke her leg. It got complicated and she's been on SSP+ for 4 months now! I really don't think a lawyer could help me with this: another member of staff (who is loyal and talkative) was dragged in to see the lawyer of the girl planning on suing me - and about all he wanted her to tell him was if you could teach a horse NOT to spook - and what do they spook at.
Isn't your liability insurance for injury to employees kept as a separate contract from your liability insurance for injury to clients? And both these separate from your insurance for horses as business assets?

The thing about your employee "loyal and talkative" employee being "dragged in to see the lawyer of the girl planning on suing" you is slightly worrying... I hope that the two of them were not alone for that discussion; either you or your own representative should be present for that.
 

JanetGeorge

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The thing about your employee "loyal and talkative" employee being "dragged in to see the lawyer of the girl planning on suing" you is slightly worrying... I hope that the two of them were not alone for that discussion; either you or your own representative should be present for that.
All my insurance is with the same company - and they have been very good. The only claim I've ever had to make was when my tack room was emptied. I wasn't notified about the lawyer meeting except by the third party - but not too worried about that one,
 
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Did the vets keep notes?! Well thats good because my previous vets didnt keep notes other than accounts of the 13,500 quid they had to treat my horse Silverfire, mostly teeth problems (silverfire is my other user name) they refused to answer my questions, ignored my letter asking for compensation since the vet totally missed the fact my horse quid for two years because her teeth were wrong shape which he should of seen in the twenty plus times he looked in her mouth, and told me to go elsewhere with no notes. My other horses didnt have notes either. While telling me to go elsewhere they did knock some money off my account as a goodwill gesture only (which I had asked them to do for the other horse who ended up dead due to a leg infection and not an arthritic hock as the vet had thought.) First time I complained to them about anything in 25 years of using them. RCVS didnt want to know and are not interested in anything like that. They were also not interested in the fact an RCVS practice did not keep detailed notes as per RCVS guidelines. They told me to seek legal advice for which I had no money left to do and by then it was coming up to three years anyway.
 

JanetGeorge

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Well I got the clinical notes yesterday - on SOME of my horses. A lot were very brief (for the size of the bill, at least) and quite a few missing.. I have demanded the rest. I think many vets are not just good enough.
 
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