Vet doesnt know

[littlelessbloom]

I mentioned on here that my horse is leaping around in canter when you try and ride with more of a contact/ask her to work in an outline. She’s fine in walk, trot, out hacking and when jumping. So the vet visited yesterday.

We lunged her and the vet said that she is ALMOST bunny hopping in canter if we push her on but when I got on her, she was cantering properly through her backend. She was changing her front legs in the canter which the vet said was odd as normally they will change their back legs if there’s pain. She did do a bit of the leaping/legs up in canter.

Vet palpated her back and said there is slight pain in the lumbar region but she doesn’t think it’s related to that. Vet seemed a bit stumped to be perfectly honest. She said we could xray neck and back, but that if they found nothing that I would then be left with a £££ bill. She seemed reluctant to do this.

She said it could be ulcers, but she's had ulcers before and never, ever displayed these symptoms.

She also said it could just be a behavioural thing and that she's just being a bit of a cheeky character.

I am worried and concerned as I don't know what to do next.

 

[ester]

Take her to a referral centre for a full work up if your vet isn't keen on working her up.

 

[littlelessbloom]

Okay thank you. Yesterday’s vet got me worried that if they xray etc and don’t find anything I will be majorly out of pocket

 

[eggs]

I would also recommend getting a referral for a work up.

 

[ester]

Okay thank you. Yesterday’s vet got me worried that if they xray etc and don’t find anything I will be majorly out of pocket

That's just horses I'm afraid, especially with a non-obvious problem- but that is usually best mitigate by having the most experienced eyes you can get on the problem

 

[asmp]

I mentioned on here that my horse is leaping around in canter when you try and ride with more of a contact/ask her to work in an outline. She’s fine in walk, trot, out hacking and when jumping. So the vet visited yesterday.

We lunged her and the vet said that she is ALMOST bunny hopping in canter if we push her on but when I got on her, she was cantering properly through her backend. She was changing her front legs in the canter which the vet said was odd as normally they will change their back legs if there’s pain. She did do a bit of the leaping/legs up in canter.

Vet palpated her back and said there is slight pain in the lumbar region but she doesn’t think it’s related to that. Vet seemed a bit stumped to be perfectly honest. She said we could xray neck and back, but that if they found nothing that I would then be left with a £££ bill. She seemed reluctant to do this.

She said it could be ulcers, but she's had ulcers before and never, ever displayed these symptoms.

She also said it could just be a behavioural thing and that she's just being a bit of a cheeky character.

I am worried and concerned as I don't know what to do next.

This sounds very similar to one of ours. He was scoped for ulcers but had a “lovely clear stomach” and also a full body scan. Nothing really showed up but had his hocks injected as X-rays showed a slight problem. Sorry to say he’s still not totally right but insurance has now been exhausted. Surprised your vet hasn’t mentioned hocks.

 

[littlelessbloom]

This sounds very similar to one of ours. He was scoped for ulcers but had a “lovely clear stomach” and also a full body scan. Nothing really showed up but had his hocks injected as X-rays showed a slight problem. Sorry to say he’s still not totally right but insurance has now been exhausted. Surprised your vet hasn’t mentioned hocks.

She did mention hocks but said that when she saw him under saddle, he wasn’t displaying the same symptoms as on the lunge so she doesn’t think it is hocks.

Do you think it’s worth getting her scoped in the first place?

This has all come at entirely the wrong time as I was looking to put her out on loan!

 

[ester]

The thing with scoping is that ulcers are very often secondary to something else physically going on, but it's a relatively
cheap thing to check for.

 

[asmp]

She did mention hocks but said that when she saw him under saddle, he wasn’t displaying the same symptoms as on the lunge so she doesn’t think it is hocks.

Do you think it’s worth getting her scoped in the first place?

This has all come at entirely the wrong time as I was looking to put her out on loan!

Just be aware that if you scope for ulcers and it’s still clear, your insurance company will exclude gastric problems next time (well ours did)

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I mentioned on here that my horse is leaping around in canter when you try and ride with more of a contact/ask her to work in an outline. She’s fine in walk, trot, out hacking and when jumping. So the vet visited yesterday.

We lunged her and the vet said that she is ALMOST bunny hopping in canter if we push her on but when I got on her, she was cantering properly through her backend. She was changing her front legs in the canter which the vet said was odd as normally they will change their back legs if there’s pain. She did do a bit of the leaping/legs up in canter.

Vet palpated her back and said there is slight pain in the lumbar region but she doesn’t think it’s related to that. Vet seemed a bit stumped to be perfectly honest. She said we could xray neck and back, but that if they found nothing that I would then be left with a £££ bill. She seemed reluctant to do this.

She said it could be ulcers, but she's had ulcers before and never, ever displayed these symptoms.

She also said it could just be a behavioural thing and that she's just being a bit of a cheeky character.

I am worried and concerned as I don't know what to do next.

Now you have done the vet- my next thing would be

Chiro and - or Physio.
When my mare's pelvis is out or pain in her lumbar - she canters almost on two tracks.

Then I would think along the veterinary follow up.

 

[littlelessbloom]

Just be aware that if you scope for ulcers and it’s still clear, your insurance company will exclude gastric problems next time (well ours did)

She’s had ulcers before so they are already excluded

 

[Melody Grey]

After many years of horses and many that don’t ‘look’ to have certain ailments or be ‘the type’, I now discount all of that and look in all the obvious places first. My TB didn’t ‘look’ like a KS case from the outside (later PTS through related issues) my Welsh x sports didn’t ‘look the ulcery type’ (diagnosed with hind PSD, ulcers and potentially KS costing £10k). OH’s cob didn’t ‘look the type’ but recently diagnosed with KS and ulcers.....so vet work up with an open minded vet required I think.

 

[Annagain]

Okay thank you. Yesterday’s vet got me worried that if they xray etc and don’t find anything I will be majorly out of pocket

That's always the case. The NHs is 'out of pocket' every time they test for something that comes back negative. They don't use that as a reason not to test. It's still valuable information as it's ruled the back and neck out and you can look elsewhere. The only other option potentially is scintigraphy (bone scan) but that's even more expensive and might also not reveal anything (although it is more likely to find the area of pain) and you'll still need to x-ray once you've found the general area that's causing pain.

 

[Sossigpoker]

She’s had ulcers before so they are already excluded

Ulcers are usually caused by pain somewhere else in the body so it is obvious based on this that the cause of the ulcers either wasn't treated or has reoccurred.
Your vet doesn't sound massively clued up so I would ask for a referral for a proper lameness work up with associated x rays and scans if need be.
Your horse is in pain and finding out the cause will cost you some money I'm afraid.
If the vet could guarantee that an x Ray would show something there would he no need to x Ray!

 

[littlelessbloom]

Okay so do people suggest not even bothering to scope as a first port of call?

 

[ester]

I'd scope but I wouldn't be spending the money on ulcer treatment without more of a work up.

 

[MrsMozartleto]

Off for a full work up - could be any one of many things. You're very unlikely to know what it is or how to help if you don't get the investigation done.

 

[I'm Dun]

That's just horses I'm afraid, especially with a non-obvious problem- but that is usually best mitigate by having the most experienced eyes you can get on the problem

Yup, nearly £500 to have a ponys airways scoped and it turns out she had the cleanest air ways the vet had ever seen, she just grunted for fun. At least I knew there was nothing wrong instead of worrying about it.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would get a referral and get a work up done the bigger equine hospitals are generally more thorough.

 

[Tiddlypom]

A full 'loss of performance' workup by a decent vet at a horsepital often works out cheaper than multiple head scratching home visits by a less experienced vet. Plus you are much more likely to find out what's wrong.

My vets prefer such cases to be brought into clinic from the off to be assessed, as they have all the equipment on site to diagnose.

 

[littlelessbloom]

Okay thank you. I have booked in a scope just to rule ulcers out and then I will get her referred for a full work up.

Does anyone have experience with the switching legs in front issue?

 

[Tiddlypom]

I would get the scope done at the same time as the workup.

I left mine in overnight after the workup so that they could scope her first thing, as they have to be starved overnight beforehand. As it happened, she scoped clear, although the vet was fully expecting to find foregut ulcers.

 

[RHM]

I would go straight for full loss of performance work up with a referral centre. Last one I had was around 4 years ago and cost £1300ish, that included multiple nerve blocks and X-rays. That went through insurance luckily. If they don’t find anything wrong and you are left with the bill they often offer “non-insured” prices.
Will work out a hell of a lot cheaper than multiple call outs and examinations by inexperienced vets. Learnt that the hard way!
Or I could be tempted to stick in a field for a couple of months then re-asses.
Im typically more of a go big or go home problem solver!

 

[littlelessbloom]

I would get the scope done at the same time as the workup.

I left mine in overnight after the workup so that they could scope her first thing, as they have to be starved overnight beforehand.

Okay how do I go about getting a referral? I’ve never done things like this before as the worst she’s had is ulcers

 

[RHM]

Okay thank you. I have booked in a scope just to rule ulcers out and then I will get her referred for a full work up.

Does anyone have experience with the switching legs in front issue?

Do they switch continually or switch to a preferred leg? And do they do it on the lunge as well?

 

[littlelessbloom]

Do they switch continually or switch to a preferred leg? And do they do it on the lunge as well?

It’s more on the left rein but happens on both and normally going into or out of corners. No only does it on the lunge if she strikes off on wrong leg - she will change her front but not her back

 

[Tiddlypom]

Okay how do I go about getting a referral? I’ve never done things like this before as the worst she’s had is ulcers

Do you know of a good horsepital or referral centre locally?

Ask your usual vet to refer her on. You could ask on here for recommendations if you are not sure.

 

[sbloom]

Scoping is tricky as it is likely to make the ulcers worse in the short term, and it's possible to feed assuming the horse has ulcers while seeking to eliminate the cause.

Vet workups are necessary and often critical, but often the hone in on one problem, instead of looking at patterns and compensations. Read up about thoracic sling dysfunction and, whatever happens, build some TS corrective work into your rehab programme. For some horses it's exactly, and all, they need.

 

[littlelessbloom]

Do you know of a good horsepital or referral centre locally?

Ask your usual vet to refer her on. You could ask on here for recommendations if you are not sure.

We are close to Oakham so I think that would be the best place for us to go to

 

[Sossigpoker]

As there is some tenderness over the lower back the switching in front I'd say is either trying to compensate for the lower back pain or might be just a balance issue.
Until the horse has been referred I wouldn't think too much about it as it could be connected or could not.