Vet says DON'T take milk from mare b4 foaling....???

AnShanDan

AnShanDan

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I read a lot of posts in which people are stripping a small amount of fluid from their mares before they foal, to help to get an idea of how soon the foal would arrive. Checking the pH and Ca etc.

I was planning to try this with both my 2 mares (one due 21/04 and the other 7/05) and save myself a few sleepless nights.

But when I told my vet last week he was horrified!! He says there is a seal on the teat for a reason.

So....now I am thinking I'd better not try this.
Any thoughts??
 
I never do it. The first bit of milk that is released contains the most colostrum which is vital for the foal.

I'm lucky in that both my mares wax up really well and when the wax comes away on it's own then that is the night that they foal.

I did have one mare who didn't wax at all but we still had a good idea of when she was going to foal from the muscles round her tail.

For me a few sleepless nights are well worth it for a healthy foal that gets all the nutrition that it needs.
 
I agree with your vet and would never do it, mainly for the colostrum reason. Dont mess with nature unless you have to! Cant wait to see photos of your new arrival x
 
I think that seeing as my own vet has said not to do it: I can't really!! I do respect his advice in general.

I was quite looking forward to the testing tho'. I like a bit of science!

Luckily for me I have plenty of help and the mares are right outside my door so hopefully I will survive a few weeks of not enough sleep.
 
kerilli said:
I've never done it. However, many mares run milk for some time before foaling, so there is no 'seal' then... i can't see the difference between this milk running down the mare's legs or being milked and saved.
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No, I've never done or intended to do it, I like nature to take its course without me screwing things up and thinking I know better. Foal will come when it's good and ready, you've waited 11 months, what's a few more days?

I think though, if mare is already running milk, that's slightly different (although you know it shouldn't be long if she's doing that so just have a bit more patience FGS!) but I certainly wouldn't be wanting to encourage her to do that which I feel these tests might do if that makes sense.
 
We did it for the first time last year, followed the instructions to the letter, and it was useless! mare foaled about 10 hours after last test and it had said the same as it had for two weeks. So back to the old way, cameras & sitting up. :)
 
I also have never done it - just cameras and sitting watching by the fire.

If the mare is running milk to any great extent, I would be using frozen colostrum and IgG testing to make sure foal had all the antibodies it needs.
 
I have tested for some years now and the huge advantage for me is that I am able to be where I need to be at the right time as mine are foaled out in a small foaling paddock.

By testing I have found that the colostrum is not present in great quantities until just before foaling. I have done some studies on my own mares using an equine refractometer and have seen the quality of the colostrum increase considerably just before foaling.

Here is a picture of the “milk” or fluid present when I have started testing, you can see it is not milk but fluid and this hardly registers on the refractometer.
IMG_1318.jpg


The amounts used for testing are unlikely to affect a foals intake of colostrum, in fact like many breeders I strip some off for freezing for future foals if they get into difficulties as there is nothing like the real thing form the same locality.

The advantages to me are that in testing the mare becomes used to having her udder and teats prodded and squeezed just like a foal will, but more gently! Particularly with maidens this desensitises them for when the foal takes its first feed. It also lets down the teats so it is easier for the foal to find and latch onto and it means that I can milk the mare in an emergency without stressing her. I only test using one teat so the other’s “seal” is in tact. I clean my hands and use a wipe to clean the teat before and after drawing the liquid. Interestingly the "seal" is not there when I start testing and closer to foaling it is often back by the next test!

By far the biggest advantage is that in using the refractometer close to birth I can assess the quality of the colostrum and can call the vet in if something is wrong (thankfully so far all of mine have been off the scale of excellent).

I cannot see that testing is any different to a mare dripping a little milk before foaling.

This is how the liquid changes a few days prior to birth as colostrum starts to build on the refractometer. (Sorry about the fuzz)

IMG_1307.jpg
 
Maesfen said:
I think though, if mare is already running milk, that's slightly different (although you know it shouldn't be long if she's doing that so just have a bit more patience FGS!)
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Flyingbuck said:
If the mare is running milk to any great extent, I would be using frozen colostrum and IgG testing to make sure foal had all the antibodies it needs.
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Don't be so quick to judge, sometimes milking prior to foaling can save time and money and I don't mean by doing these tests.
 
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SmilingMadly said:
Don't be so quick to judge, sometimes milking prior to foaling can save time and money and I don't mean by doing these tests.
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I only speak for myself here, but I cannot logically see how you can interpret what I have written as my being "quick to judge"

What I stated is what I would do if a mare of mine had been running a significant amount of milk, not telling/judging anyone else, merely sharing what my actions would be if those circumstances presented themselves to me.
 
I would never milk a mare before foaling, science or not, it is, in my opinion, interfering with nature. Agreed, some mares run milk before foaling and that can be dealt with by igg testing the foal and a plasma transfusion if necessary but milking a mare before foaling has no benefits from where I'm standing.
 
Drawing a small amount from my mare has saved me many nights sitting up the yard. I also did it with her first pregnancy without any Ill effect to mare or foal. I doubt there are statistics showing this causes problems for the foal with the amount of breeders that do it.

The amount the mare "drip" before foaling, out measures the amount drawn in my opinion.

Would an experienced vet talking to an experienced breeder say that..?
 
We tried the milk test on two mares last year and were rather confused by the results. Not much alternative to sitting and watching.

However, good tip as we have had mares who can run a quantity of milk for several days. You SHOULD save this milk and freeze it in case she has run off her colostrum. You can then give to the foal when it arrives.
 
If you were to freeze the colostrum... when could or should you give it to the foal. i;e... when the milk has defrosted, or do you leave at room temperature, defrost in the microwave???? just asking as I like many others don't know
 
Gucci_b said:
If you were to freeze the colostrum... when could or should you give it to the foal. i;e... when the milk has defrosted, or do you leave at room temperature, defrost in the microwave???? just asking as I like many others don't know
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Colostrum is notoriously tricky to heat up, it is best to put it (in the container it has been stored in) in a bowl of warm water and let it gently defrost and warm through. Heating too quickly in a saucepan on the cooker, or worse, in a microwave, causes it to curdle and become unusable.
 
Karyn K, couldn't agree more with you. The amount stripped off is tiny, and is not even colostrum (it has nothing to do with the 'first' amount coming out - it changes to colostrum just before the mare foals).
We did milk tests last year - will definately be doing them again! (All our mares are also under camera, so its just an extra little thing for us). Without exception, last year, all our mares went by the letter to the milk tests. We used the ones from Future Sportshorse, I know there are alternatives and they don't seem to be as accurate from what I have heard. Actually though...once you have been doing it for a while, the consistency and colour of the fluid drawn off means you already know what your test is going to say, so you could do without the actual tests.
 
Yes I have learnt so much since I started doing it, it's fascinating and where mine foal out you can see from the levels that they power down at least two days before the BBC announces a wet spell!!! They have tended to pick the very start of a period of good weather to foal so they must be very sensitive to air pressure changes.

Mine live as naturally a life as possible and I only have a few so that is practical for me. But at the end of the day they are domestic horses and I could not live with myself if I lost a mare or foal for taking that concept too far and for the sake of a few drops of liquid I can make a very good assessment of their likely foaling date and more importantly assess any need for an IG test before I let someone stick a needle into a newborn with little or no immunity.
 
Whilst I'm not entirely convinced just how useful a tool this milk testing malarky is, I'll try most things once.

This afternoon I had the Dear Girl hold our 5 in-foal mares, one at a time, and distract them, whilst I made an attempt at touching their bags. I was cautious, you will understand, and if they'd been able to reach me, then every single one of them would have launched me into orbit!!

My honest opinion? When I see the larger studs using them, then I may persevere, but until then, I'm sorry but I see them as a gimmick. Assuming that you trust them, then they'd probably be a bit of fun for the single mare owner. They aren't infallible, whilst time and eyes are. ;)

Alec.

Ets, I'd also be with the vet who says "Leave well alone". a.
 
Hear hear Karyn!

I did milk test last year for the first time, after reading Karyn's experience on here and followed the method outlined on here: http://www.yellowhouseranch.com/foaling.htm

Here are the results:

2008 foal - No milk testing. I camped out for 2 weeks in the paddock, with an hourly check throughout the night. By the time she foaled, I was just popping home to put my daughter to bed and grab some dinner - came back to wet foal on ground...

2010 foal - milk testing from the time fluid could be extracted. When the pH level hit 6.5, I slept 1 night in the paddock & she foaled the next evening. I was there to attend - thankfully as she ran into trouble and I would have at least lost the foal if I hadn't been there to help.

Would I milk test again? You bet!

eta: Alec, as a one-mare owner, with a full time job and a young family, I can vouch for the fact that it was not just a way to keep myself entertained ;), it was a life saver! :p :D only a small exageration here :D though I did cry when after nearly losing my sanity on foal watch in 2008, I missed the birth anyway :rolleyes:
 
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Alec...we probably count as a 'larger stud'. Believe me, my husband, who is an old school bloodstock stud man took some convincing by me to trust the milk tests (as do most people in bloodstock....why do you think they still don't do AI?!), but he is a total convert - we were amazed by the accuracy. We will never replace good old sitting up, there really is no other 100% way to know, and we have a responsibility towards our client's horses, but it was nice to have another way of knowing that 'tonight really was the night'!
 
Everyone told me to stop fiddling- at 245 days my mare developed a bag. Far too early by all accounts- and I couldnt help myself but check- I had to know. Water like fluid ejected- certainly not like the colour I put on my cornflakes.

I shamefully checked the odd bit at times thereafter- the words placentitis and £900 worth of regumate and antibiotics later, made me a little paranoid.

I tell you though, the morning I took a little squeeze and the fluid was white, I nearly had a heart attack! Mare was fine and a beautiful colt was born that night.

Having said that, I never milked my mare per se- a fly couldnt have lived off it let alone dip
any litmus papers in it!! I just tried to think if I were pregnant I wouldnt want my boobs squeezed!!

X
 
We do the milk testing, but not as a stand-alone. We know our mares, and monitor them closely for changes to their body and behaviour, as well as having them on camera. The milk testing simply helps reduce our sitting up for each mare (we don't have a massive herd) from several weeks down to a few nights, maximum. I'm another one who doesn't really need the testing, per se--after doing several, I got better at telling the appearance and texture of the milk of a mare that is imminent. I do like the numbers just to back up what I observe. I have spoken with several vets who all support milk testing, including specialist stud vets. As others have said, you only use a small amount of the mammary secretions, which really aren't proper colostrum yet until the very end. If you don't take precautions, you CAN introduce pathogens which could result in mastitis, which is likely what your vet was concerned about.
The tests available through FSH are great. We have found that pairing a calcium test with a pH test is even better than testing calcium alone.
 
Like many others on this thread I've milk tested for years. There is no way I would ever go back to weeks and months of staying awake every hour, every night and every day with all of our mares. Milk testing has transformed foal watch for us and for my breeding customers as once that ph hits the magic 6.2 I can let them know that their babies will be arriving within the next however many hours and that they can come and watch the births. It works great for my clients as many are professionals who would otherwise miss the births of their foals without the accuracy of milk testing.

There is nothing wrong with not milk testing, I personally couldn't be bothered with all those sleepless nights, so if that is what they prefer that's just grand too :)
 
Well, after reading all your posts, I might be tempted to give it a go this year!!! Can someone give me a link to where the (accurate) strips can be purchased. Although I will still have the cameras, monitors and sleepless nights, not paranoid at all :D
 
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