Vet slapped foal on the nose!

Wagtail

Wagtail

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The five week old colt at my yard is very bold and cheeky. During the first week he would kick us and double barrel his mum. Only when Mum stepped in and told the naughty boy that it was just not on, did he stop. Now, his thing is biting. But we are getting there with him and he's become lots better. The owner told me to smack him on the nose, but I explained to her why it was wrong to do that and we have been just pushing his nose away when he mouths us, and if he is really colty, we make ourselves look big and get in his space until he backs up. He's coming on great! But last week when the vet came to examine him, I warned her to watch out for his teeth. When he went to mouth her she slapped him on the nose! :mad: I told her that we didn't do that with him. But she said, you have to be firm and nip it hard in the bud. Her husband runs a stud. I still disagree and think you can be very firm without resorting to smacking a foal. So who is right?
 
Sorry I would be with the vet on this one, especially as she has first hand stud experience, sometimes a good slap is what they need;);)
 
I'm a bit iffy with this too my foal colt was the same we would poke him in the nose lightly and he would run away . My non horsey friend however slapped him on the nose which started making him headshy. I found a firm but not harsh poke did the trick. He also used to bite when picking his feet out so we would just keep pushing his head away in the other direction. I can understand why your concerned personally I have found it does make them headshy. Hope this helps
 
You need not worry about being a wee bit rough imho, the mare will give it a much harder time and it will come out the other end with a nice attitude.
Consistency is the key but if it was not stopping biting with a push [which might work with a mature horse], you have to up the ante.
Though you have to make individual judgements, they try you once and if they get away with it, they do it again, it looks as though he thinks he is getting away with it.
I met a two year old which had this down to a tee, come up friendly, then bite and run, owner considered this annoying,...me I would have had that sorted pdq.
 
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im not sure, but i have tried both a smack on the nose and pushing my horse away and neither seem to stop him!! when i push his face away he seems to think im just playing with him and keeps trying to do it!
 
You are, regardless of whether it is a foal or not, they should never be smacked around the face! The pushing the face away works because it is like the herd pushing them away, the idea is that you hold the face away so they cannot look at you, eventually they get the message. Our first colt was horrendous from day one, he was biting and rearing in your face, double barrelling etc, he just grew out of it and was never smacked but was dealt with appropriately, he is now a lovely natured grown up who never bites or kicks.

I am not against smacking in general but it has to be done appropriately, ie instantly, and never around the face, if there is another more suitable way then I would choose that over smacking.

ETA, sorry, should have said, it is not a vets place to correct an animal!
 
Thanks. The thing is he has got LOTS better without ever being smacked, and I really worry about making them head shy. But then the vet has loads more experience with foals than I do so it made me question it really.
 
I would say the vet was right and the mare will be fair rougher on him when he steps out of line. It is a problem when colt foals in particular don't have the benefit of a 'team' of broodmares to keep each others foals in check. I find a well aimed poke on the nose or tug on the whiskers more effective, but I doubt any lasting damage is done.
 
You're both right, your approach is just gentler.

However, you do have to be firm - and from what you've described about your cheeky little man he's going to be one to watch very carefully, and rule with a rod of iron.

I prefer the 'flick' personally on the side of the nose. But nothing wrong with a slap.

Interesting about the stud. I wonder if your owner would consider sending the mare and foal there for the summer. Would do him the world of good.
 
Baggybreeches said:
I would say the vet was right and the mare will be fair rougher on him when he steps out of line. It is a problem when colt foals in particular don't have the benefit of a 'team' of broodmares to keep each others foals in check. I find a well aimed poke on the nose or tug on the whiskers more effective, but I doubt any lasting damage is done.
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It does seem that those with more experience are tougher on the foals. I will see how he goes. At the moment he is definitely improving and starting to get the message. I would never smack a horse in the face, though I have elbowed them before. They seem to associate that more with their own actions than with yours.
 
A slap round the nose won't make him headshy. My vet was laughing at me for doing he same thing to my 2 year old when he thought the vet was worth investigating for food. He is the least headshy pony you could imagine
 
Dolcé;10750670 said:
ETA, sorry, should have said, it is not a vets place to correct an animal!
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I very much disagree with this. I would trust my vet and farrier to use the action they felt appropriate to discourage any behaviour. It is these people's livelihood at stake, one unlucky kick or strike from a horse/foal can put them out of action for months. It is not their job to deal with bad mannered horses.
I actually had this conversation with my farrier about my mum's youngster who went through a spell of being a bit obnoxious. The farrier (who we have known for over 20yrs) said that he would rather my mum didn't hold him because he thought he needed his lad to hold him and he needed a bit of a 'telling off'. I told the farrier that if he didn't broach the subject with my mum, then I would! If he isn't happy doing a horse then he should be able (within reason) to do something to ensure he feels safe enough to do his job properly.
 
amymay said:
You're both right, your approach is just gentler.

However, you do have to be firm - and from what you've described about your cheeky little man he's going to be one to watch very carefully, and rule with a rod of iron.

I prefer the 'flick' personally on the side of the nose. But nothing wrong with a slap.

Interesting about the stud. I wonder if your owner would consider sending the mare and foal there for the summer. Would do him the world of good.
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No she won't send them there. She wants him here where she can handle him herself daily. One thing the vet was extremely impressed by was how easy he was to catch, have his foal slip put on and how well he stood for the blood test and examination. The one thing I think he misses out on here though is the company of others his own age. It makes him view humans as possible play things. :(
 
Imo it is a bit late for a 'nip it in the bud' approach and you informed the vet and have training ongoing. I am still amazed how anyone feels they have a right to slap anyone else's horse (being me even your own unless it's a reflex reaction) and being a professional doesn't exclude them from this. :(
 
Wagtail said:
The one thing I think he misses out on here though is the company of others his own age. It makes him view humans as possible play things. :(
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That is the most important thing. I do understand why she wants to do the handling but it might be better to handle him for a while and then see if she could turn him away in a herd for the winter, they definitely do need to be with others of the same age.
 
Dolcé;10750670 said:
ETA, sorry, should have said, it is not a vets place to correct an animal!
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This is an interesting one, because whilst I agree with you to a degree, a vet obviously has the right to expect to be able to treat any animal without getting hurt. So if they need to reprimand they will.

When it comes to foals then obviously manners are being learn't, and the situation is rather different. So unless you expect (and are happy) for your vet to carry on regardless of what antics are being performed by the foal - without reprimanding it or stepping in to assist, you as the owner must step in very quickly to do it yourself.

Vet's do have the skills for the job - and if they are not 'abusing' the animal - let them do their job, and insist on behaviour at the same time.
 
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If anyones horse or pony regardless of the age nips, bites or kicks me then it gets it right back harder. I think your vet was right to rap him on the nose.

Hes too young to be establising the fact that humans are for nibbling on, will escalate into something worse in the future.
 
We have two extremely playful geldings that are itching to go and play with him. Once he is weaned and big enough, he will go in with one of them. Owner is adamant he will stay here. When I suggested he go to the stud the got really offended and thought I was telling her I didn't want him here!
 
Wagtail said:
No she won't send them there. She wants him here where she can handle him herself daily. One thing the vet was extremely impressed by was how easy he was to catch, have his foal slip put on and how well he stood for the blood test and examination. The one thing I think he misses out on here though is the company of others his own age. It makes him view humans as possible play things. :(
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This is why it would be good for her to put her own feelings aside, and consider broodmare and foal livery......

She would still be able to go up daily.
 
I haven't worked much with foals but he is yours and how you choose to raise him is down to you. The vet should abide by your procedures and not be the one to dish out punishment.
 
milesjess said:
I haven't worked much with foals but he is yours and how you choose to raise him is down to you. The vet should abide by your procedures and not be the one to dish out punishment.
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So what should the vet do whilst the foal is chewing on him??
 
I agree with your vet, especially with a colt. I've had two who have been very quick with their teeth and the key is being just as quick as them. If you don't reprimand within 3 seconds, it isn't worth it.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
im not sure, but i have tried both a smack on the nose and pushing my horse away and neither seem to stop him!! when i push his face away he seems to think im just playing with him and keeps trying to do it!
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My [older] foal tried a little lunge at me one day when I had her on a halter at the gate, I was taken by surprise, but next day it was a bigger lunge, more teeth, in return a quick rap on the neck with a lead rope. No more nonsense, if I had let this continue we would have ended up with some rearing type monster with teeth and hooves combined.
 
Wagtail said:
Thanks. That is why I was questioning it, as I knew she was very experienced with foals. But I have dealt with headshy horses before and SOMETHING must have caused it, surely?
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Headshy horse are usually older animals who have been ill treated, we had a pony you could not halter..........it was obvious from its behaviour that it had been thrashed with a leadrope while being hosed down, both seeing the lead rope, and / or hosing down caused fear reactions.
 
Agree with the vet 100%, I wouldn't mind (within reason) vets or farriers disciplining my horses or foals - not that any of mine this year have shown any inclinations towards being more 'aggressive'.
For what it's worth, I currently have 5 foals so far this year (plus 5 yearlings and 7 two year olds), the first time they act out it's a push out of my space and vocal cue, that normally stops them, if it happens again it is a tap on the nose. I've not bred a headshy horse yet :rolleyes:

Also, whether adult or foal, a vet is a professional and many spend their days busily travelling from place to place - if the get badly hurt that throws their whole day off, if they get badly kicked that's time off work for them.
 
Okay, I'm starting to change my view. I will continue with the softly softly approach whilst it appears to be working (and it is). But if he starts to get worse again then I might correct with an immediate flick of the back of my hand. I think this is far less likely to make him head shy than a smack with a raised hand.
 
A reprimand instantly is essential. I prefer to poke hard than slap if possible but sometimes a slap is quicker and easier to administer. A nippy colt foal is not funny, a biting yearling and beyond is dangerous. What is learnt early on will stay with them all their lives. Whether that be good or bad behaviour is up to you.
 
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