Veteran conditioning

[Reri1826]

My boy is an early 20s, 16.3, retired (ish, occasional walk hacks) warmblood. Always been an easy keeper on reasonable grass and a token feed. Various niggly soundness issues; stiffness, ringbone, Damaged annular ligament.

He has regular physio, teeth are done, last worm count was 0. He lives out, grazing is fairly poor so has hay/haylage put out most of the year. In winter he has meadow haylage in what seems like huge quantities, far far more than he has previously had when stabled.

At the start of last winter he had a gastric impaction and aspiration pneumonia, spending 10 days at the vets. He lost a lot of weight over winter, which for various reasons I failed to acknowledge quickly enough and feel terrible about.

He is now back to a weight I’m happy with, although I would like to get some more on him before winter. I feel like it has taken him a long time to respond and in the past if I’d fed him like this he would have been huge in no time. It could just be down to age, but I worry I am missing something.

He has 2 feeds a day of 1kg grass nuts with a simple systems measuring cup nearly full to the top of micronised linseed, brewers yeast, Feedmark’s original balancer and Devils Claw. This makes a huge feed when soaked. Plus hay in the field, which currently him and his field mate are picking at but not always finishing. The feed shop I use have recently changed from Charnwood’s linseed to British Horse Feeds.

He has had 3/4 (I can’t remember!) Cushing’s tests, including a TRH stimulation test, all negative. And a Prascend trial, which I didn’t feel made any noticeable difference.

Am I missing something? Is it just old age making him slower to pick up? He is not my first veteran, but he is my first veteran to live out all year round and the grazing isn’t quite what I’d like it to be.

 

[P.forpony]

My 14.1 pony has 2 balancer cups a day of linseed in the winter so your boy could probably take a bit more, but check weights and measures on the bag.
You could look into swapping his grass nuts for something more calorie dense, lots of conditioning fibres out there these days dengie, spillers, mollichaff etc
I also really rate pink mash, not conditioning in itself but it helps them get more out of what you put in. ?

 

[J&S]

There does come a time when their general constitution just doesn't allow them to pick up, this happened to my NF mare at about 28/29.
I found it hard to acknowledge what was happening and kept holding on to the belief that come late spring/early summer she would be looking good again. I am not saying that this is what is happening to your horse but perhaps a chat with your Vet might be a good idea.

 

[Bonnie Allie]

My old chap had an inflamed gut after an illness which prevented him gaining weight. I didnt know this was the problem and dingbat of a vet just told us to feed him more. Made him worse as we used calorie rich feeds which upset his gut flora further.

Took him to horse hospital and they diagnosed the inflamed gut. Gave him meds to help short term as well as got us onto a brilliant equine nutritionalist who specialised in these problems with gut health.

Learnt so much from the nutritionalist who focussed on changing the gut flora and keeping it healthy.

End result was a happy old horse who gained weight rapidly and improved in energy and outlook considerably. Feed bill dropped by one third as well once we moved him to this new and very basic diet. Horse lived to 28yrs and was only pts as he had a stroke.

Try to find a half decent vet and an accredited nutritionalist Who is not associated with a feed company maybe?

 

[paddi22]

I had a slightly similar issue with one of my older ones that only started three years ago. it turned out I just hadn't rugged him quick enough and with heavy enough rugs. once he had dropped the weight it was hard to get it on but with starting rugging earlier he kept condition much better. he now has a 420gm rug on from about oct on, which in ym brain sounds way too over-rugged, but he needs it.

if you wanted an easy way to put weight on then equerry condition mash is amazing.

 

[Reri1826]

@P.forpony Good point about the linseed, I will weigh what I give later and look into pink mash, thank you.

@J&S So far, he does pick up when the grass picks up, it just seemed to be slow this year but then maybe I am underestimating just how much he had lost, but I take your point- I got my old boy to late 20s early 30s ish without too much trouble, but better grazing.

@Bonnie Allie I have been wondering if there is something going on back there since the impaction, he was starved completely for 3 days as part of the treatment and did develop a tiny ulcer which vet was confident would disappear, but I have been wondering if there had been an impact on his gut further back. He also had a reaction to being wormed for the first time a few months ago (low grade laminitis that went as quickly as it came), I wonder if this could be linked.

@paddi22 Also a good point about the rugs, he grows and excellent coat and hates being hot but I am being more conscious to get rugs on him at the moment, he has an excellent waterproof fly rug that gives a bit more coverage than just his back and I’ve used this most times it’s rained as he does seem to be feeling the cold more than in the past. I will have to be quicker to rug as the weather turns- his heaviest is a 180gm so may have to invest in something a bit warmer. He also *hates* neck covers with a passion! Or at least he did, might be worth trying again.

Thanks all, some definite food for though

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

Your diet sounds pretty good tbh, if there isn’t any in your proprietary feeds you could add something with a pre and pro-biotic in it. At the moment I feed my 25yr old Warmblood, one of those mini sized trugs of pink mash, extra micronised linseed, double handful of unmollased hi-fi, small scoop ordinary pony nuts, salt, pro-earth balancer and buteless. I tweak it regularly. He’s well covered at the moment. The balancer and pink mash both have Protexin in them. I do think decent grass is one of the best (and worst) things for weight gain.

 

[SussexbytheXmasTree]

End of May after a bath.

 

[Reri1826]

What a lovely boy! There’s yea-sacc in the balancer, but I’ve just looked and am underfeeding that by 3/4 scoop so will increase that, don’t know how I’ve managed to get that wrong!

Sounds like pink mash definitely worth giving a go, thank you.

 

[Polos Mum]

Is he less sound than normal? Have you considered a bute trail ? low grade but constant nagging pain can cause weight loss because it's stressful without being obvious if hes's not in regular work.

I would also be tempted by second opinion on teeth, there is a massive variability in quality of people who 'do' teeth.

 

[southerncomfort]

Lots of good advice above.

Only thing I can add is maybe have a look at the Rowan Barbary range of feeds.

I had one pick up really quickly after a nasty virus (I think it was Solution Mash but not 100%).

The good thing about the RB feeds is that you don't need to feed a lot to see a difference so it wouldn't make his feeds too much bigger.

And on that note, I found that splitting feeds in to several smaller feeds rather than one or two large ones seemed to help too.

 

[meleeka]

What’s the DE of your grass nuts? When I was looking there were huge variations in the starch/sugar and DE. I didn’t find grass nuts all that good for weight gain with my big veteran and I was feeding over 2kg per day. She’s now on D&H Soothe and Gain and is down to half a kg per day through the summer. She hasn’t ever been diagnosed for ulcers and doesn’t have symptoms apart from the fact I just couldn’t maintain her weight through the winter. She was getting ad-lib hay, and veteran vitality and even 4kg of that a day didn’t keep the weight on.

 

[daydreamer]

My old one had to go out 24/7 suddenly because of a health issue and lots quite a bit of weight as there wasn't very much grass and he wasn't getting his normal amount of hay (not allowed to feed in field). He was on a similar diet to yours. I upped the grassnuts, linseed and then added Equijewel and the weight came on very quickly. Equijewel is very calorie dense so doesn't give massive feeds which is handy.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I’ve always used Normal beetpulp and linseed soaked together in a trug and left in the stable over night to be picked away at. Worked for my old boy who wasn’t a great doer and had cushings. Just fibre and oil so can have pretty much any time. A big scoop of beet pellets makes a medium trug then I put three cups of linseed meal in and mix. You can add a scoop of readigrass as well but I never bothered with my old guy. Some days he finished it some days he didn’t I just left the bucket until he did then made up another one. This was on top of his three feeds a day of veteran vitality, senior fibre and alfalfa nuts

 

[Gloi]

I would also be tempted by second opinion on teeth, there is a massive variability in quality of people who 'do' teeth.

I would too and probably have him sedated to have a good check for any gum soreness and diastemas . Having those widened and regularly packed by the dental specialist at the vets made a big difference to my oldie

 

[Reri1826]

@Polos Mum He had a box of Danilon when he had the worming reaction, it did help. I’m using the devils claw over summer as he seems comfortable on that, then will switch back in winter.

He’s had 2 different people look at his teeth in the last 8 months, so I’m happy they’re ok- he is due in the Autumn so will make sure I ask lots of questions then.

@southerncomfort funnily enough I have not long ago recommended Rowen Barbary feeds on here to someone and have ordered a solution mash sample to try. I used to use readymash for my old boy. I’d love to split his feeds further but work full time and there is no one on the yard who could feed him in the middle of the day.

@meleeka The DE is 11 (Emerald Green) so should be ok, simple systems red bag are 11+.

@daydreamer been on a yard that was similar, we moved to make it possible for him to live out. Will look at Equijewel.

@Cheeky Chestnut he lives out as he stiffens up if stabled for more than a few hours. I’d like to go to 3 feeds but not possible currently.

@Gloi he has been sedated the last few times so will ask lots of questions next time.

 

[HashRouge]

I drop into all these threads to give a shout out for Allen and Page Veteran Vitality. It really helped my mare (now 27) pick up last year when she dropped quite a lot of weight for no obvious reason. Like your boy, she used to be a really easy keeper but now just doesn't seem to hold the weight as well as she used to. I have to keep things fairly simple or she'll stop eating her feeds altogether!

 

[Reri1826]

Thank you, will have a look at that as well. Very grateful for everyone’s comments and ideas!