Vets and getting shoes off their equine patients

NiceChristmasBaubles

NiceChristmasBaubles

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Just wondering about this, and if there are any vets reading this, would be interested to know your opinions as well.....

My old girl (34) is in full livery with my friend around 1 1/2 hours away. Long story, but totally trust my friend who looks after her like her own. Anyway, got a call today to say that my mare is lame in front right. Just weight bearing, but clearly uncomfortable. This isn't like my mare at all - tough as old boots usually! Friend has called vet - old partner has just retired and the now new senior vet has a funeral to go to. So stuck with young, newly qualified vet. Did I want her to come out, or wait until tomorrow? Now, after a short discussion we decided that we would get young vet out so she could at least take a look and give painkillers/anti inflammatories etc to start with. And if tomorrow or next day, there was no sign of improvement then we would get senior vet out.

So young vet comes out. Spends over an hour and a half trying to get shoe off. Apparently she has only ever had to remove one shoe and that was in training, and on a dead horse. She also has no tools in her car to remove a shoe so my friend has to provide these. In the end, one of the yard staff (lovely guy in his 60s, but really deals with manual stuff, not horses) is asked to lend a hand and gets shoe off.

Very inconclusive examination, and my friend (who is very experienced) basically had to lead the conversation. Horse is now poulticed and looking a little better, but vet didn't know how to poultice either.

So, when vets train, do they spend any time learning how to get a shoe off? Or learning how to poultice? I'm perfectly happy to have young vets treat my lot (horses, dogs, cats) as they are often quite open and receptive to new ideas/diagnoses, but surely taking off a shoe and poulticing should be bread and butter stuff?

Coincidentally I was only chatting to my farrier the other day and he complained about a vet not knowing how to take a shoe off (60 miles away, so unlikely to be the same one!). Given that vets and farriers often need to work together to solve issues, shouldn't there be some mutual crossover training/work experience?

Just pondering really, and would love some knowledgable input. Thanks. :)
 
We definately learnt this at vet school and could do it though slower and clumsier than farrier (of course) Most farriers I know think vets are rubbish when it comes to shoes and trimming and shoeing but then thats a farriers specific job so can understand why they dont respect people that deal with feet much less often but think they know as much if not more than the farrier - if that makes sense.
Though to be fair to the vet - he/she is a new grad - possibly only been working a few months if graduated this summer. Probably was told by whoever took the call that you wanted the senior vet and didnt want them, then did want them only to get some drugs. Probably embarrassed that they havent been provided with the right equipment. Maybe intimidated by your friend knowing her stuff. Everybody starts somewhere.
 
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fatpony said:
We definately learnt this at vet school and could do it though slower and clumsier than farrier (of course) Most farriers I know think vets are rubbish when it comes to shoes and trimming and shoeing but then thats a farriers specific job so can understand why they dont respect people that deal with feet much less often but think they know as much if not more than the farrier - if that makes sense.
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Thanks fatpony. I completely understand that you wouldn't be able to do it as quickly/efficiently as a farrier as they do that day in/day out. It just surprised me that she had obviously received little teaching on something that I would think would be a fairly regular requirement and also that she had no tools whatsoever.

And yes, farriers would say that, because that is their trade. But this seems to be a vet somewhat lacking in basic skills.
 
I wouldn't be very happy about that at all!

Even I can get my own horses shoes off safely. I think it's important to be able to do so in an emergency (for those times when he pulls his shoes half off in the field), and your vet not being able to poultice? That's bonkers!

I once had a new vet out who made a real mess trying to find and dig out an abcess.
 
I can take a shoe off as i asked my farrier to show me for emergencies, and it takes 5 minutes tops, so I would have thought that someone who may have to do it for their job would find it just as easy, but its pretty useless not being able to put a poultice on if your a vet!
 
I find that very strange as i was taught by my farrier and i am just a regular horse owner and i can whip a shoe off correctly in no time.
As for not being able to poultice, are you sure the practice were not short on large animal vets and sent a small animal vet that would not be dealing with horses very often
This may sound a bit insensetive but has to be said i would be asking the vet practice for a reduction in the bill for sending a vet with very obvious lack of experience in this area, and maybe suggesting she spends a day with a farrier
 
sorry was editing while you were replying. It takes a while to get confident at stuff like that. Also meant to say when I was a student - 60 people in a year - now at least twice that many so less opportunity for hands on stuff. Vet students should do work experience with good farriers in my opinion
 
Misinterpreted said:
I wouldn't be very happy about that at all!

Even I can get my own horses shoes off safely. I think it's important to be able to do so in an emergency (for those times when he pulls his shoes half off in the field), and your vet not being able to poultice? That's bonkers!

I once had a new vet out who made a real mess trying to find and dig out an abcess.
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Yes, pretty much matches my feelings. My friend had to encourage the vet to dig deeper into the foot as she was faffing about. We're still not sure if it's an abcess, corn or something else. I think the other vet will be coming out tomorrow. That was my decision, I at least wanted my girl to have painkillers which is why we got the NQ vet out, but it's not right to have to juggle up calling a vet out today or tomorrow because you think the vet available today won't be up to the job.
 
I completely accept that it takes time to learn. However, I have yet to find a veterinary practice which offers a different call out charge for the newly qualified and the experienced vets.
I would be fuming if a vet was unable to take off a shoe.
 
miss_bird said:
I find that very strange as i was taught by my farrier and i am just a regular horse owner and i can whip a shoe off correctly in no time.
As for not being able to poultice, are you sure the practice were not short on large animal vets and sent a small animal vet that would not be dealing with horses very often
This may sound a bit insensetive but has to be said i would be asking the vet practice for a reduction in the bill for sending a vet with very obvious lack of experience in this area, and maybe suggesting she spends a day with a farrier
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I completely agree. It always has been a very good vet practice - small animals and large, but dedicated vets for each area. If it hadn't been for them, my old girl would be long gone with colic. Sadly the top partner has just retired, but his deputy is excellent - if my friend had had the choice he would have been the one to come out. But unfortunately he wasn't able to. The NQ vet is a horse vet, and I will certainly be questioning the bill if I am charged the full whack for the 2 hours she spent in total looking at what must be a fairly routine problem.
 
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I am either vet nor farrier but can take a shoe off very proficiently,case of having to when horse twisted it on a regular basis few yrs back :)
Tbh i have also found that i can bandage and poultice a hell of alot more professionally than some vets,madness i know but true!
 
The vets at the equine hospital where I worked could take a shoe off nearly as fast as a farrier. The house vets used to remove shoes for surgery from emergency admissions so had so much practice I doubt they would ever forget!
 
I'm a small animal vet but I can take a shoe off! I took a lot of shoes off at uni-every surgical patient had to have shoes removed, however some people in my rotation group were less keen to get hands on so I did more than my fair share. We had an on site farrier and everyone spent a minimum of 1 day shadowing him, which was really useful, not sure if all the unis do this. Bigger groups may mean less practical knowledge!

However! On the up side, new grads may not be great at some practical stuff but they often have loads and loads of great new ideas that will spread through the practice. It's easy to see the downside when it's your horse but every time I work with a new grad it updates my knowledge and I'm sure the same is true for horse vets.
 
Hmmm it totally depends upon where the NQ vet did her training whilst studying! IF she went to Rossdales for example she would have learnt loads and done loads!

Ok not all trainees can get into a top equine hospital etc but the partners where she worked should have identified ALL the NQ vets needs for further training! It sounds like this NQ vet was well out of her depth sadly!

Not to be able to take a shoe off nor be able to poultice hmmmmm! I don't think I would be wanting this one to be on the premises tbh-ok slightly unfair but as another person has said no vets practice is yet to charge a cheaper rate for the NQ vet coming out!
 
Hmm well Dad (farrier) gets called out regularly to take shoes off FOR vets - I think there's ones practice in particular that never seems to do it. But then for a lot of his customers he's the first call out if a horse is "foot lame" as he's as able as a vet to find and dig out a puncture type infection.

He's also the recommended farrier for a few practices with regards to corrective shoeing though and has always taken an extra interest in causes of lameness, be it navicular, laminitis, whatever (he has been known to ask for the leg of horses that have been PTS so that he can disect for better understanding/future treatment of others - which made for some interesting evenings when I was younger :eek: :D).
 
we did get taught how to take a shoe off and had to prove we could do it in our practical exam - that section of the exam lasted 10mins - if you didn't get the shoe off in 10mins you failed that bit. however, you dont need 100% to pass an exam so i guess you could pass the exam and become a vet and not be able to take a shoe off. i think if i was gonna be an equine vet i'd make sure i went and practised it before i got my first job though! i got mine off in about 3mins and stood there chatting to the farrier for the rest of it, but it's something i've had to do numerous times before. i would expect a newly qualified vet to be able to do it and certainly to have the tools to do it, and of course they should know how to poultice. You cant rely on the horse's owner to do it for you!
 
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