Vets. Newly qualified or experienced?

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poiuytrewq

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I have a bit of a thing about new vets. I don't like to use them. I know it's unfair of me but years ago I had one completely go to pieces and eventually jump in her car and leave me with a very obviously dying horse. I'll never forgive her for the way he died but not sure if that's a relevant excuse not to use younger vets or if I'm being unfair and actually putting myself at a disadvantage?!
I need a vet to see my horses and it's so difficult getting one of the main vets who I know and trust.
I also appreciate everyone needs to start somewhere and with people Like me around that's going to be tough for those new to the profession.
 
I know completely what you mean!
im more than happy for new vets (or those I don't know) to do routine stuff but anything involving me paying for performance/lameness work ups or involving needles going near joints etc and I'm ultra fussy about which vet gets the seal of approval lol
 
After my last experience with a 'new' vet working at my practice I will never again have one anywhere near my horses.

I had a mare who had foaled and hadn't cleansed - not the first time so I knew what to expect, I'd even spoken to the main vet the week before to ask if I could just have some oxytocin to inject her myself but he couldn't do it as it's a controlled injection.

Anyhow out comes this 'new' vet gives the mare oxytocin - then 60 seconds later starts pulling on the afterbirth. After some sharp words from me about letting the muscle contractions at least start he stepped back - he then 'assisted' with the removal and just dumped it in a bucket - I then took it outside and spread it out on the floor - vet asked me what I was doing - erm checking to see it's intact! It wasn't - there was a corner missing. Vet then tells me I'm wrong - I show him where the bit is clearly missing and tell him to go and find it! After some grumbling, he did, and luckily found it. He then put antibiotics in and then gave her another injection - when I asked what the injection was he said oxytocin - I questioned why she needed more of that anyway and, if she really did, why give her the oxytocin which would make her push out the antibiotics which he'd just put in? As soon as he'd gone I called the practice to complain and I now have an agreement with them which vets I will see.

Yes the new ones have to learn somewhere but his mistake could have cost my mare her life, I now stick with experienced only.
 
I am with you - I had a newly qualified vet put me through hell and made me feel like a murderer, when I took a dog in to be pts, as agreed by an older vet after they had failed to diagnose and treat a problem over 2 years ..... new vet could not accept his training could not save this situation and in the process he made the trauma SO much worse.
I am very happy for young vets to do more routine stuff or more, under supervision, everyone has to learn and get experience.
 
I changed practices because, although my vet was brilliant, if he wasn't around, none of the other (always young) vets were any good with horses. Arch can be a bit of swine if he thinks he's got the better of someone, so when one of them had to call another vet out to help him sedate him, that's when I knew I had to change. That practice always used to be a mixed practice but over the years has veered further towards small animal and when my vet retired they stopped doing large animal full stop.

I'm now with a purely equine practice and I'd be happy to have their young vets for routine stuff, but would still want "my" vet for more complicated things - not because I don't trust the young vets but because "my" vet knows A and his long term conditions. He nearly always brings a trainee with him though and I'm perfectly happy for them to learn on A under his supervision. I also really like the way he explains it all to them and therefore to me. I'm one of those people who needs to know the detail.
 
I think it depends entirely on the vet. I have a local practice for routine stuff, and a specialist equine one further away, which I use for actual problems, like Billy's colic last year. The young vet from the local practice is absolutely fab at injections. He's not very horsey, but he's used to working with cattle. He's so quick with the injections they don't even know it's happened. The young vets at the equine practice were fantastic with his colic, and the vet nurse, also very young, was wonderful at calming me down and making me feel like he was in good hands when I had to leave him overnight.

Conversely, when Billy was with his previous owner, on part loan to me, they called a very experienced equine vet to look at a field injury. After he left I was told gushingly about what a 'real horseman' he was. Billy had fidgeted, having been backed into a corner (he stands better with a bit of space around him, or against a single wall, where he feels less trapped), and the guy had thumped him in the ribs with the pointy end of his scissors. All the time I've known him he's been a saint for the vet (if a little wary around scissors now), and if he fidgeted when in pain I certainly wouldn't expect a 'real horseman' to react like that. I was very relieved when I bought him and was able to change to a different practice.
 
Our practice has had a constant stream of young vets, only one of which I trusted and sadly he's left now. One turned up today and hadn't checked what she was coming for so consequently didn't have any flu jabs with her :( . Another couldn't estimate weights, she thought a horse who was 450kg max was 700kg! Another told me not to phone during the night about my dog as they couldn't do anything else till the next day even though he'd been howling in agony, she obviously didn't want disturbed. The senior vet is great but their prices have gone up ridiculously and the service has deteriorated, the phone is often engaged for hours and I panic about getting through in an emergency now.
 
A vet nurse who was in training to be a vet diagnosed my mare better than a equine vet with 30+ years experience. She was more interested in looking at the individual horse and the problems she was having, not the "old shetland, its probably laminitis."
 
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I am incredibly fussy.

For routine stuff like jabs, I'm not bothered.

For lameness etc I am incredibly fussy. With my last mare, they sent out a girl who was scared of horses, told me I was paranoid and if it was anything above the stifle they couldn't scan for it anyway. (I was on the Isle of Man)

They just wouldn't listen to me, very fustrating.

Move to Cumbria and horse was PTS in a matter of weeks due to a slipped disk in her back that they failed on several occasions to take seriously or diagnose.
 
With the local vets I know (and the people that use them) they each tend to be used for different things.... we would use X for lameness, Y for colic and Z for bloods... etc. Not because X knows nothing about colic but each seems to have a talent, or a really good eye for unsoundness, or whatever. I would rather know the local vets and work on this basis than write them off because of youth, age or anything else. I know one absolutely brilliant young yet (qualified just over a year) who is both knowledgeable and enthusiastic, and goes to endless lengths to get it right. She also has perhaps more willingness than an older vet when it comes to spending her time reading up the latest research and techniques. She is the first to say when she needs a more experienced opinion. So don't write the young ones off without giving them a go.
 
I'm not interested in any vet who will not listen to me the owner, as owners we are best placed to note the small details that can inform a diagnosis.
Like most I have no problem having young vets coming out to do routine jabs but have stopped using my vets for teeth after a row of young girls insisted on sedating my docile cob to rasp his teeth. Why should I pay more because they are too short to reach, if his head is not hanging down and why should he have unnecessary sedation!
I have also noted that most new vets have no real skill with lameness, all they are interested in doing is scanning, xraying, the skills of diagnosing without technology is fast going. I'm not against it and would happily send my horse off, however it now seems a first tool and its bloody expensive. I now use a Chiro vet as well as a conventional vet and have found that to be a good balance.
 
Personally I actually tend to prefer the less experienced vets. I feel that in one case the more experienced vets jumped to a conclusion and therefore caused us many more issues (without resolving the original one). Whereas the less experienced vet seemed to be a lot more open and willing to listen.
 
I am very fussy about vets of course when you call out of hours you take who you get but the next morning I expect any further stuff to done by the vet I chose .
 
For routine jabs I have whichever vet comes out. If they look competent, confident and personable I also have his teeth done. If they are nervous, cack handed or do not take their time and handle the horse as a horse person would I would rather pay separately for a dentist.

For any other issue I box up and go to the actual equine hospital and see the main man. No point paying for an opinion I would not trust, and I will not have sedation merely because the handler is not competent.

Over the years I have bad stories from new vets, from terrible stitching jobs to a terrible mistake with intravenous sedative. I have also had a misdiagnosis or two with an experienced vet, but at least they had the people skills to listen to my point of view, and I was referred on to a specialist in that particular field.
 
equi said:
A vet nurse who was in training to be a vet diagnosed my mare better than a equine vet with 30+ years experience. She was more interested in looking at the individual horse and the problems she was having, not the "old shetland, its probably laminitis."
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hi Equi i think the difference here is she was a vet nurse and will have years of experience looking at changes in animal. the vet courses have to cover so much that they only see a couple with symptom X. not the thought of the vet, but it might be good to have a similar system for training that we have with doctors, once qualified they still have to work under supervision and can not do house calls unsupervised etc. everyone has to learn, and to be honest mad horsey people can be a scary to the uninitiated !
 
I will always try to get an experienced vet unless it is for more routine stuff, I have suffered (or my horses have) at the hands of the "new". I know they have to learn and get experience, and that only comes from us allowing them to diagnose and treat our animals. Basically, it depends how serious I think it might possibly be in the first place.
 
i am always very happy to see new vets but was very annoyed recently when a vet called out to do a routine £70 procedure then said they didn't feel confident to do it, I appreciated their honesty but not the £240 bill that landed on my mat because I ended up having to use a partner instead
 
It seems to be a case of you're more or less on your own. It obviously depends on the practice and the mentoring schemes they have in place for new grads. I once complained to one of the senior partners that they sent a very newly qualified vet out to me on a Sunday afternoon - he had to unwrap his new overalls!!! - I also pointed out I wouldn't have phoned them on Sunday if I hadn't thought it was serious. I was told the problem was the vet practice had to support the new vets i.e. provide transport and a wage and they didn't have the same opportunities for work shadowing/experience as in the NHS. The young man was very polite and administered every drug that could have been relevant and phoned a couple of days later to see how things were progressing. I did notice that two months later he was no longer with the practice!
 
I know they all have to start somewhere going it alone after vet school and it must be very daunting for them going it alone.

However I will only use the newer qualified vets for yearly jabs and if it's an emergency and their only vet on call if over night! I use one of the long term vets/partner of the practice for anything else.
 
I had to change my view slightly when my daughter qualified , it wouldn't have been very supportive to be anti new vets. However I do think its important that new vets have a good back up from more senior vets. Particularly in equine they can be on their own so need to know they can ask for back up, and equally importantly, are prepared to ask for back up.
I am lucky that the practice I use do support their new vets well, and they also don't have a problem if I ask for a specific vet for something. I have only ever had a problem with one new vet when seeing one of the dogs, and wasn't happy with how he dealt with her. However they were soon aware of his shortcomings and he moved on.
 
I too prefer experienced vets for issues. I also like a vet that I can ring up and say " mare has thorn in leg have taken it out please can I come and pick up some Norodine?" And they say yes!! Same with a request for more bute for long term issues it is all done over the phone.
 
I used to use a practice where there were two horse vets (both experienced), one was really nice and personable and took owners opinions into account etc. But she was definitely less skilled and did not do any of the surgery and really serious stuff. The other was a formidable vet but was known as Dr Death! Had no bedside manor, told me my horse had leg issues as he was too big and I was a fool to have bought anything over 16.2! Also if a horse needed to be PTS she would just say `it needs to be shot'. But was fantastic with diagnosis and treatment. We were all terrified of her!
 
I use a specialist equine practice/hospital which is also used for referrals from all over the country. I take the horses to the practice for routine work and am happy to use whichever vet is there. I always use a particular vet for dental work as I know he is specifically trained and does an excellent job. For vetting I would use any of the partners and be prepared for them to spin as they are notoriously thorough and for anything serious that wasn't an emergency I have a favourite vet. In an emergency I'll take whoever turns up and I've never had a problem. Young vets have to learn but this practice doesn't take them straight from vet school, so there are no complete newbies.
 
I think that newly qualified vets shouldn't be out and about on their own for around 2 years. I've had a few bad experiences with newly qualified vets and it's put me off them completely.

It is especially important that newly qualified vets are supported when they join a large animal practice. We all know that horses and farm stock are potentially very dangerous, especially when in pain, and the only way a young vet can learn a confident bedside manner with big animals is to shadow a more experienced vet to see how it's done in the real world - which is usually quietly, quickly and with confidence.
 
Cobbytype said:
I think that newly qualified vets shouldn't be out and about on their own for around 2 years. I've had a few bad experiences with newly qualified vets and it's put me off them completely.

It is especially important that newly qualified vets are supported when they join a large animal practice. We all know that horses and farm stock are potentially very dangerous, especially when in pain, and the only way a young vet can learn a confident bedside manner with big animals is to shadow a more experienced vet to see how it's done in the real world - which is usually quietly, quickly and with confidence.
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I agree with you to a point. However bear in mind that some vets are well used to handling horses having been around them for years, ditto some have grown up on farms and are totally confident handling farm stock.
 
We prefer to see the more experienced vets for anything other than basic routine stuff with any of the animals. We used to use one excellent equine vet, he used to send his newly qualified vets to us and then ask for feedback the next time he saw us :) Sadly we had to report back that one had rasped the old Cobs tongue, when doing her teeth, this was a mare who stood like a rock for any procedure, so we were not impressed, we were also unimpressed with the young woman who, while standing in our yard, spoke to Sis and I as if we may have Learning Difficuties and had never seen a horse! The main man sent us a card when he retired, thanking us for helping to train his young vets :)
The current practice have a young woman who was clearly petrified of the 18 month old Rotty bitch, and then went on to try and explain to us what inflamation was! Senior partner took over and the dogs eye was dealt with calmly and professionally.
 
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