Vets payment upfront

[catherine22]

What is the point in having insurance if vets now seems to be asking for payment upfront? I had this recently with both my horse and dog vet - the reason I have insurance is so I don't have to find £1000s immediately yet this seems to have become normal?
I know you get the money back from the insurance companys but I don't have it lying around to start with ggrrrr
Sorry, tuesday morning rant

 

[AmyMay]

It may well depend on what insurance company you're with.............

 

[*hic*]

Change insurance companies and/or vet.

 

[Sandstone1]

Ive had this too, Its not easy to change insurancce companys though, as if you are payig bills you will have a existing condition which a new insurance comp wont cover.
I think most vets seem to be asking for money upfront rather than direct claims as they have to wait for the insurance comp to pay out which can take a while.
It is really annoying though as its why we have insurance. In this day and age we dont all have spare money to pay unexpected bills.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I suppose it depends on insurance company and vet. Our vets have never asked for payment up front, and in fact have only just been paid by the insurance company for a claim going back to April, I actually felt guilty they had to wait so long and apologised to them but they were fine about it.
I do know some of the big hospitals ask for payment up front so its worth always keeping a bit of space on your credit card.

 

[new foal mum]

hAD THIS PROBLEM WITH OUR DOG RE INSURANCE, phoned around different vetts until we found one we liked, when they contacted previous vet for records the original vet then said it would bill the insurance company direct, so did not have to pay up front. Its also worth getting a note from insurance company to say they will pay the bill.

 

[rockysmum]

Although its harsh on the majority of horse owners and I can understand the OP being fed up.

On this one I actually sympathise with the vets and I dont blame them for tightening up. they are a business and the attitude of some animal owners leaves a lot to be desired. The rest of us then pay the price. Then there are insurance companies who are very well known for being bad payers, or not at all, but people still use them. Our vets actually ask which insurance company you use when you register, they love KBIS who in my experience pay up in a couple of days.

I have also lost count of the number of times I have heard other owners say things like "I dont have any money for this treatment, never mind, I'll worry about it later" They then expect the vets to wait months for the money or negotiate a payment plan. They also dont check with their insurance companies up front to see if they are covered.

Basically if people dont have enough money for essential treatment then they shouldn't really have the animal. Vets aren't charities and the fancy facilities they have these days are expensive to maintain.

Rant over

 

[AmyMay]

Who are your insurers OP?

 

[Black_Horse_White]

I've always paid the vet up front. I'm with the NFU. I've found they pay me much quicker than they do the vet.

 

[Sandstone1]

Although its harsh on the majority of horse owners and I can understand the OP being fed up.

On this one I actually sympathise with the vets and I dont blame them for tightening up. they are a business and the attitude of some animal owners leaves a lot to be desired. The rest of us then pay the price. Then there are insurance companies who are very well known for being bad payers, or not at all, but people still use them. Our vets actually ask which insurance company you use when you register, they love KBIS who in my experience pay up in a couple of days.

I have also lost count of the number of times I have heard other owners say things like "I dont have any money for this treatment, never mind, I'll worry about it later" They then expect the vets to wait months for the money or negotiate a payment plan. They also dont check with their insurance companies up front to see if they are covered.

Basically if people dont have enough money for essential treatment then they shouldn't really have the animal. Vets aren't charities and the fancy facilities they have these days are expensive to maintain.

Rant over

I can understand your point of view, however most responsible owners have insurance to avoid big bills, its not always untill after you have a claim that you find out that your insurance comp is not very fast at paying out, by then you are stuck with them as you cant change as any pre existing condition will not be covered.

Not everyone can pay out on the spot for big bills, yes I know vets are a business, but without pet owners they would not have a business and surely its better for them to wait a few weeks for their money than not get it at all if people are not insured.

 

[MurphysMinder]

To add, in cases where I haven't had insurance (e.g. when a condition has been excluded due to previous claims) I have always found as long as I explain the situation to the vets first they have been happy for me to pay in installments. Yes they are a business but they also, one would hope, care about animals and ime are always willing to discuss payment methods.

 

[rockysmum]

To add, in cases where I haven't had insurance (e.g. when a condition has been excluded due to previous claims) I have always found as long as I explain the situation to the vets first they have been happy for me to pay in installments. Yes they are a business but they also, one would hope, care about animals and ime are always willing to discuss payment methods.

Sorry, forgot to add that bit. I agree there is no problem with negotiating up front, same if you are unlucky enough to have a poor paying insurance company. But the point I was making is that a lot of people dont. To wait until the treatment is done and then tell the vets you cant afford it seems wrong to me. And I have seen it happen a lot.

 

[catherine22]

I am with NFU who I have never had any problems with and they paid the vets fine, directly last time which was a couple of years ago.
My claim only started on the 11 Oct and I spoke to NFU yesterday who said the first cheques are on the way, which to me isn't long to wait (they'd be waiting longer if I had to pay it!) - which I told the vets yesterday and they still want the second payment now (I only got the invoice last week
Its just infuriating!! and its not even a big bill (on the grand scale of things)

And I have paid them my excess already and for his livery, so I'm not exactly ignoring them!!

 

[AmyMay]

I am with NFU

In that case I would ask your practice to reveiw their procedures. As NFU are very good in my experience at settling bills quickly.

 

[catherine22]

I am seeing them tomorrow so I will have a word I think, at least to stop the 'we will charge you £25 if you dont pay us in 7 days letters', as I said NFU paid them last time quickly and with no issues so i'm not sure whats changed

 

[Wishful]

Bad debt is a MAJOR issue for small businesses like vets as none of their costs can be paid in arrears... Fuel, salaries, tax and drugs are their major expenses, none of which can be deferred beyond 30 days. NFU have started being dodgy lately at least for equine claims...

 

[skint1]

I am with Pet Plan, they seem to be taking ages to make payments but usually do, I could not imagine a scenario where I don't have insurance, I don't have access to that kind of credit or ready cash any longer. Even with the insurance I have spent at least 2k on vet bills in the last 4 years, paying excesses or where a bill has come just under the excess, if you add on what PetPlan has covered it would be a lot more than that.

Until recently I have always paid up early or bang on time for vet bills, and I have had some big vet bills (£500+) where the vet has just wanted to make sure of this or that and it turned out to be an abscess or something where I wish to God I'd just called the farrier first, a lot of this has been down to my inexperience as a horse owner so it's my own fault.

I admit I now have an outstanding balance with my vets, some of it going back quite a few months, and I do not have the ready cash to pay. I also admit that if my horse needs the vet I call them knowing that I don't have the ready cash. And yes ideally you should have money set aside for emergencies, I used to, but I don't now so I have to pay in installments, I am lucky the vets let me do this.

 

[elliegirl12]

Our old vet knew us well enough to send out the bill through the post, but now as moved area also had to change vets who unless you have with them and build a repaul with them for about 2years will they then send out the bill rather then charging us on the spot shame some people have to spoil the trust that vets etc put on us

 

[catherine22]

Mine send out the bill to me rather than on the spot, but they want it paid by me (now)rather than waiting for the insurance company and altho I could find the money it is all tied up and would be a nightmare to get to - hence why I have insurance!

 

[AmyMay]

and altho I could find the money it is all tied up and would be a nightmare to get to - hence why I have insurance!

Precisely!

 

[Sugar1987]

I'm with NFU and a few weeks ago had my first experience of this, i have no problem with a vets making the decision to not work with insurance companies, however when i registered with the practice last year i asked them to recommend some insurers they gave me three. Only now that i have come to claim they informed me the day my horse was brought in that they will only work with Petplan and i would need to pay the bill in full when collecting her that day, put me in an awkward position especially when they wouldn't give me a ball park figure for the cost until they had done the work.
My horse has since been referred to a specialist equine centre who again i have had to pay up front, NFU are still processing the original claim and i was informed that it will take six weeks before they will confirm if i am covered or not. My horse now requires surgery and i'm not really impressed that i am still waiting for a decision, didn't help that the original vet took 3 weeks to fill in the claim form though!

 

[juliag]

We have never had any vets bills other than the usual vacc's until we moved into livery. A trio of coloured gypsy cobs moved into the youngstock barn next to my horses stable. (they could 'talk' to each other over the partition). First time I saw the owner she told me one of them had had strangles a fortnight before.
Within days my horse was very very quiet and lethargic and the following day, full on strangles symptoms. We called the vet immediatley, my poor lad was very very ill for several weeks. At the first visit the vet asked if he was insured, when I said yes , we were with KBIS he smiled , looked very relieved and said 'good, no problem, they are the best!). KBIS were brilliant when I rang them to tell them of the visit, they dealt straight with the vets, paying several bills immediatley, no quibbling. total cost about £1000, I was confident I could keep going back to the practice to get anything we needed. I can highly recommend them. service second to none. and I have just had the renewal and it hadnt even gone up!

 

[whizzer]

Depends on who you're insured with also some insurance companies take months to pay out to the vets when a direct claim is done. As a lot of people are insured these days it means the vets are kept waiting for payment on a lot of bills! Moan at the insurance companies not the vets!....

 

[china]

this is in the terms and conditions with my vets two, regardless of the insurers you are with.

 

[Spring Feather]

I have the opposite to many on this thread. The equine vet I use for all regular goings on at my place is notoriously slow at sending out bills! I do not insure any of my horses for vet fees; I just pay the bills when they come in, which is reasonably infrequent considering the amount of horses I have. I often have to phone this vet to ask for my bill as I like to keep on top of my business accounts and sometimes it can take well over a month to receive it. The other two specialist equine practices I use both accept visa so they automatically charge my credit card whenever I use them and I much prefer that.

 

[lauraandjack]

Can you go to the supermarket and fill up on groceries then get to the checkout and say "sorry, I'll come in and pay next week?" Try going to the petrol station and saying "oh, I forgot my purse."

Sadly the days of vets being able to send out monthly bills and for people to actually pay them rather than disappearing off into the sunset never to be heard from again belong in the days of James Herriot.

As veterinary medicine has advanced bills have naturally tended to become greater. 20 years ago a horse diagnosed with "navicular" would have had treatment of bute and maybe some corrective shoeing if your vet knew an enlightened farrier. These days your horse is likely to have advanced diagnostics and extended courses of treatment, which does not come cheap!

Sadly people are becoming a lot less trustworthy and can no longer be relied upon to pay their bills. A vet surgery is a business like any other and we have bills to pay, if the income is not coming in then we run into financial difficulties like anyone else. Most vets will have money owed to them running into thousands of pounds, most of this is from small debts that are just not economical to chase up as you pay more to the debt collectors than you actually regain.

Insurance companies (some more than others) are becoming increasingly reluctant to pay out and if they can find a way out of paying up, they won't honour a claim. Which, if the insurance company is supposed to be paying the vet direct, leaves us in a rather awkward situation where we have carried out the work but no one is prepared to pay for it.

FWIW, it's actually not legal for us to offer credit beyond the terms of our invoicing without being registered under the consumer credit act or something similar.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Can you go to the supermarket and fill up on groceries then get to the checkout and say "sorry, I'll come in and pay next week?" Try going to the petrol station and saying "oh, I forgot my purse."

Sadly the days of vets being able to send out monthly bills and for people to actually pay them rather than disappearing off into the sunset never to be heard from again belong in the days of James Herriot.

As veterinary medicine has advanced bills have naturally tended to become greater. 20 years ago a horse diagnosed with "navicular" would have had treatment of bute and maybe some corrective shoeing if your vet knew an enlightened farrier. These days your horse is likely to have advanced diagnostics and extended courses of treatment, which does not come cheap!

Sadly people are becoming a lot less trustworthy and can no longer be relied upon to pay their bills. A vet surgery is a business like any other and we have bills to pay, if the income is not coming in then we run into financial difficulties like anyone else. Most vets will have money owed to them running into thousands of pounds, most of this is from small debts that are just not economical to chase up as you pay more to the debt collectors than you actually regain.

Insurance companies (some more than others) are becoming increasingly reluctant to pay out and if they can find a way out of paying up, they won't honour a claim. Which, if the insurance company is supposed to be paying the vet direct, leaves us in a rather awkward situation where we have carried out the work but no one is prepared to pay for it.

FWIW, it's actually not legal for us to offer credit beyond the terms of our invoicing without being registered under the consumer credit act or something similar.

Quite right!! Where I work we sometimes have a terrible cash flow problem and wages are hardly covered!! So many ppl run up massive bills and then the insurance company refuse to pay, its better if its the owners problem and not the business, ppl seem to find it really hard to come to grips with a vets being a business, yes u would think most vets love animals,but that has nothing to do with it x