Vets prejudice against barefoot

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unicorndreams

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Grrr, just got off phone to vet and not impressed. I called for advice about lameness that's come on this w/e. The first question was 'when was she last shod?' 'She's not, she's transitioning to barefoot' I replied. To which I was told that TB's can't cope with this as the feet have been bred out of them due to racing favouring long toes and low heels. I was questioned as to my reasons for transitioning her and I explained that it was a personal preference as the farrier had said her slightly underrun heels needed bar shoes and pads. So I had decided to at least give her a break from shoes as she's not in heavy work anyway. Her feet are looking really good and much improved now (to my eye and that of my trimmer (farrier was also convinced she couldn't go bare!)
Now I am prepared to accept that barefoot may not be suitable for her long term but early signs are that she is doing really well: this may just be a temporary set back due to a bruise or abscess. There is no obvious injury, heat, swelling or elevated pulse in the leg, I can't detect any pain in the hoof itself, no flex in the sole etc. so my initial thoughts were a pulled muscle (its slippery in the field!) it was just that the vet's dismissive attitude really rankled me.
 
Your vet's attitude is common, but no longer universal as more and more vets are seeing with their own eyes the improvements that can be made in 'genetically' poor feet that actually just need a change in diet and management. I've been told many a time that the vet in question does not understand how we have achieved the improvement 'But to carry on because it's obviously working.'

However I am not surprised some vets are cautious as I am led to believe they have received a) very little training in hooves to start with and b) none whatsoever in what can be achieved unshod. They are often very heavily reliant on farriers and the farriery syllabus doesn't cover this ground at all.

I am aware of vet students being admonished for raising the topic during their lectures on hooves so it may be a while yet before we see a grass roots change.

All that aside, TB's do great bare - they may take longer to rehabilitate because their hooves and diets have been mismanaged from an early age but it is still entirely possible.

If your vet lacks the competence to assess a bare hoof then you may wish to find someone with more experience.

You can eliminate the hoof from lameness work ups with the judicious use of either well fitting boots and pads or if not available, nappies and duck tape. Incredibly effective and cheap, although may need some practice.

Rehabilitiating a hoof out of bar shoes is achieveable but it does tend to take quite a bit of effort so I would never put a horse in bar shoes lightly (or at all to be honest).
 
My tb is bare :) and going well.
In fact we have gone from lame/box rest to back in work. And he was going to be pts.

I would change vet, mine was all for it and said she had seen it work many times
 
Been there done that got the tee shirt .
Just let it wash over you and handle it as best you can it's not ideal but it's the reality of the situation we are in at the moment.
 
Generally speaking yes, as theyre not taught otherwise. So unless your vet has a personal interest in BF and has gone and done research this is they general attitude you will meet.

At the Vets on Tour lecture I went to last year they discussed navicular, most of which was about remedial shoeing. I put my hand up and said would they ever consider barefoot as a treatment and the vet gave a sheepish grin and said he's been waiting for someone to raise that one, then did a brief poll of the audience and it was half and half whether they were barefoot/shod.

OP in your case Id write to your vets, expressing disappointment at the archaic attitude towards barefoot (Especially the typical one that TBs cant go bare) and send in some research in BF"s favour - and from other vets who are more pro bf.
 
Try a new vet that takes you seriously and isnt dismissive of you?
They certainly arent all like that, my old vet is extremeley knowledgeable about hooves and has barefoot horses, and would be my first point of call if I had hoofcare questions. And the horse of (at least) one of my current vets is barefoot, although I dont know how specialised she is in hoofcare as we were just casually chatting and she mentioned it.
 
I have really had to go round my vet attempts to discuss it when I first started were not a help.
So I just don't discuss it it's not their buisness.
 
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when I was transitioning my TB the vet who was down to see us for something different was adament that we needed to get shoes back on. A year later and the same vet is back to stitch said horse back together and was amazed at the difference. Commented that the injury would have been a lot worse if she had had shoes on. So I guess it is a case of carry on regardless and keep quiet!
 
That's disappointing. I was going to post a post opposite to your vets reaction a few weeks ago as I had the vet to see my two for annual vacs and teeth check and he was very positive about barefoot and had seemed to have done his research about diet and his parting comment was that as long as the feet get enough stimulation on different surfaces it can be the healthiest option for many horses and many horses could go barefoot and he had seen the benefits of going barefoot with horses that had had poor feet and some ongoing soundness issues. Then again he seemed very pro towards horses being out as much as possible, fed low starch / sugar free diets - nice to see he was keeping up with the current thinking.

Maybe you need to have more in depth conversation with him about why he thinks your horse can't go barefoot - he surely needs to provide some evidence to back up his statement!
 
Thanks for the messages of support - its much appreciated
Mel's feet have generally been pretty good but her back feet had 'stopped growing' in the words of the farrier. Her soles had put down bars presumably to provide some support that the feet weren't getting from the shoes. So I adjusted her diet and prepped her for transition. 10 weeks in and the trimmer's opinion is its been a text book transition so far. Hoof boots on the fronts only as they twist on her back feet due to her action. Hacking out 3x a week and feet in great shape overall, nice and hard and compact
Whilst I am willing to consider it might not suit her long term I did not want a lameness assessment to start from the assumption that she can't be a barefoot TB! In the absence of an obvious reason for her being lame I'll give her a week off and see if she improves.
I did bite my tongue and not point out to the original vet that long toe/low heel is generally a shoeing issue not necessarily a conformation one! Definitely needs updated info on foot care :-)
I've been given another vet to try - one that is hopefully more open-minded. Glad to hear there are some out there!
 
Fortunately, not all vets are the same. I have a Hanoverian X TB horse with similar hoof conformation, she is unshod and my new vet and farrier's reaction ?
'Best thing for her, let her balance her feet the way that suits her.'
Find your self another vet.
 
I think they fall into 2 categories. Those with clients with successful barefoot horses who have then "learnt" from their clients and those who simply have no experience and are unable and unwilling to go against the norm. After all they are taught very little from vet school about barefoot.
I have found the first group are interested, intrigued and willing to discuss it. The second group just don't have the experience and I have found trying to discuss it with them doesn't work very well. They don't have the exerience of successful barefoot horses so why should they advocate it?
I would never use the words "transitioning to barefoot" to a vet (unless I knew they would understand). I would just say the horse wasn't shod as he wasn't working.
My vet is brilliant about barefoot horses. Probably the reason they are my vet. :D
 
We only have one local equine practice.

They routinely prescribe egg bars for everything
banghead.gif
 
paddy555 said:
I think they fall into 2 categories. Those with clients with successful barefoot horses who have then "learnt" from their clients and those who simply have no experience and are unable and unwilling to go against the norm. After all they are taught very little from vet school about barefoot.
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Definitely a third category who have their own barefoot interests, specialisms, and opinions, and not just having picked things up from clients.
 
Tell your vet that when I was trimming other people's horses, the best feet I have ever seen (still haven't been bettered nearly 6 years later) were on a TB that had raced. His feet were so rock hard that I couldn't rasp them. Not that they needed it, they were just perfect! I couldn't charge the woman anything other than fuel to get there and must have looked a right t1t, I was just so in awe of his feet!!
 
My potential field companion is a TB mare who has transitioned to barefoot well. The vet wasn't exactly supportive, but another vet at the practice was, as she had dealt with a navicular case (mine has navicular, bilateral spavin, hind limb psld and arthritis in one fetlock) and had seen the results from Rockley. Mine is doing well although I didn't send her to Rockley.

On another note, this weekend a farrier was at the yard who I haven't seen for years, to do one of the other horses. He used to shoe my old horse when I had him at another yard - must be going back at least five years. We got chatting about my TB mare and I asked what he would have done if a horse had been diagnosed with the conditions that my horse has. His answer (said in a very quiet voice and whispered to me) was "take the shoes off - go barefoot if the feet will allow it". He told me that the feet will sort themselves out to make the horse comfortable. He even acknowledged that had I gone down the remedial shoeing route it would only have worked for a year or two before the feet had deteriorated further. He also said that he had no problem with barefoot trimmers and that there shouldn't be a "them and us" attitude. He also offered his help with mine if it was ever needed and I couldn't get hold of my trimmer for anything......is this farrier unique or what?
:)
 
Holly Hocks said:
My potential field companion is a TB mare who has transitioned to barefoot well. The vet wasn't exactly supportive, but another vet at the practice was, as she had dealt with a navicular case (mine has navicular, bilateral spavin, hind limb psld and arthritis in one fetlock) and had seen the results from Rockley. Mine is doing well although I didn't send her to Rockley.

On another note, this weekend a farrier was at the yard who I haven't seen for years, to do one of the other horses. He used to shoe my old horse when I had him at another yard - must be going back at least five years. We got chatting about my TB mare and I asked what he would have done if a horse had been diagnosed with the conditions that my horse has. His answer (said in a very quiet voice and whispered to me) was "take the shoes off - go barefoot if the feet will allow it". He told me that the feet will sort themselves out to make the horse comfortable. He even acknowledged that had I gone down the remedial shoeing route it would only have worked for a year or two before the feet had deteriorated further. He also said that he had no problem with barefoot trimmers and that there shouldn't be a "them and us" attitude. He also offered his help with mine if it was ever needed and I couldn't get hold of my trimmer for anything......is this farrier unique or what?
:)
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My farrier has been on a barefoot trimming course and often suggests that as a way forward if his clients will consider it, he even suggested it as a way forward for our TB mare but we elected to go with NB shoes and equipak, a decision I don't regret. She's barefoot now but she lives with a qualified barefoot trimmer, I don't think she is easy to manage in that way, she's needed boots and restricted grazing for most of the summer, but perhaps she will be when she has finished her transition.
 
Hmm my mistake was probably in saying I was 'transitioning' her - vet hears that as "I can't afford shoes so I'm making the horse go without and she's in pain because of it" and thinks "what a stupid owner", rather than the real process of managing her diet and exercise carefully to support this phase of hoof development because I care enough about my horse to not want bar shoes and pads on her (OK yes I'm still annoyed :-D must stop ranting!!)
Oh lets not forget the other TB prejudices to go with the rubbish feet - they are highly strung, neurotic, hard to keep weight on, skittish, accident-prone and cost a fortune in general care and vets bills - non of which applies to mine - perhaps I should re-register her as a different breed??!
Anyway, I feel better for everyone's support and encouragement - I will keep the faith :-)
 
Yep, my TB is none of those things, and has good feet (unshod). Shes also chestnut, she fails on all the breed stereotypes ;)
 
Holly Hocks said:
On another note, this weekend a farrier was at the yard who I haven't seen for years, to do one of the other horses. He used to shoe my old horse when I had him at another yard - must be going back at least five years. We got chatting about my TB mare and I asked what he would have done if a horse had been diagnosed with the conditions that my horse has. His answer (said in a very quiet voice and whispered to me) was "take the shoes off - go barefoot if the feet will allow it". He told me that the feet will sort themselves out to make the horse comfortable. He even acknowledged that had I gone down the remedial shoeing route it would only have worked for a year or two before the feet had deteriorated further. He also said that he had no problem with barefoot trimmers and that there shouldn't be a "them and us" attitude. He also offered his help with mine if it was ever needed and I couldn't get hold of my trimmer for anything......is this farrier unique or what?
:)
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My farrier is very supportive of ours being barefoot. He's quite happy just to trim as needed and supports that if they don't need shoes don't put them on and has expressed his opinion that the feet are healthier without shoes on. I doubt he's done any sort of barefoot trimming course but does a decent trim on our lot including our tb who's never had shoes on in his life.
 
My farrier is very pro barefoot, he recommends lots of people remove shoes. Mine had always been fine in shoes & it was he who suggested I try without. He's also the farrier that works with my vet for any remedial work, so we don't have a problem. My mare does best with short, but ever so slightly uneven unshod feet. Never even had a transistion period when shoes first off. A new recruit to my vets practice came out for last lot of jabs, & proceeded to lecture me uninvited on the 'state' of her feet. Given she has large feet prone to spreading & flares, she is kept short as possible, but with her own natural rather wide shape. According to this vet I needed a decent farrier who would shape & trim her feet back to a 'better' smaller & narrower shape. Apparently current shape is giving her all sorts of problems, which was news to her & I. He ignored my 'but she's sound on all surfaces, & has been for years'. But promptly shut up when I pointed out his boss had very much approved what the farrier had done, & my so called 'misinformed farrier' was the very one the practice uses for remedial work.
 
littlelegs - love it, nice one!
My farrier is not dead-set against barefoot but didn't think Mel could manage without shoes despite saying she actually 'had good feet for a TB'.
I hope this lameness is just a temporary setback - there's nothing I can see of feel that is wrong so will just give her some time off in the hopes that it is nothing more than a bruise or sprain. Its so slippery on the muddy ground and without shoes on she's like Bambi on Ice!
 
If you aren't happy with your Vets opinion, and it is just that, then change, there will be one out there that you do like.

My Vet has the opinion of "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it"
 
unicorndreams said:
Has she got any white socks too? Isn't there some old saying about chestnut mares and how many white socks they have as to whether they are any good or not?? :-D
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Of course ;) Ive had 5 chestnuts and as far as I remember theyve all had varying numbers of socks, which is typical as I dont like white markings really :D
 
I'm baffled. You paid a horse hoof expert then ignored his advice. Horse goes lame as result so you pay a horse health expert and now you're angry about his advice. At what point do you consider maybe the experts aren't all wrong and you the only correct individual?
 
Spotsrock I was annoyed that the vet formed an opinion without having seen my horse based on her being a TB. The farrier wasn't sure what to try with her back feet to encourage the heels to strengthen up and had experimented with a couple of options before suggesting bar shoes and pads but with no more certainty of success. So I looked into alternatives. Trying barefoot is one possible option to help her grow a better hoof. If it doesn't work then she's back in shoes.
 
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