Vets, vet nurses, knowledgeable hip people, please

Cinnamontoast

Cinnamontoast

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What do you think of these hips? Dog is two, very muscled.
IMAG0634.jpg
 
Dunno whether it is the angle of the photo, but the positioning of the dog does not look right.

The left side as we are looking at it looks much bigger than the right? Neither ball is fully in socket, both sockets shallow, worn. But again this may be the quality of the x-ray/positioning and the fact it may have been taken with a camera phone.

Bear in mind I am used to seeing GSDs, positioned for either BVA or SV scoring and I am not a vet x
 
I agree that the positioning is crap. The dog is at an angle, right hip hitched up, not equal. The photo of the x ray was taken at a slight angle. It is to an x ray intended for the BVA. The dog was neutered today.
 
I agree with CC. The positioning is very poor and slightly twisted making the left hip appear larger. The femoral heads look a bit worn, the left worse than the right. There's very little "waist" to the left femoral head. The legs should be more vertical, which would affect the way the femoral heads sit in their acetabula. I'd be requesting another set of X-rays.
 
Not good plates at all, I'm surprised the vet didn't retake if the dog was under a GA. Its very hard to judge as the angle of the hips is distorted but the left femoral head in particular looks quite squared off.
 
if those are being sent to the bva they will probably send them back. rubbish set of plates...especially with dog under GA, my vets manage far better with just a sedation! I know nothing about HD so cant comment on anything other then the quality of the plate!
ets although on first glance I agree with CC's comments.
 
Not for the BVA. He was neutered at the same time. I'm doubting the diagnosis of HD because the plates are poor and I've seen so called normal hips that look vey similar. It's difficult to say as the angle is so poor and I am clueless about X-rays!
 
Imo taking x rays and not submitting for scoring will only give a very vague idea of hip status. Okay it would be possible to tell if the hips were not in the socket at all, but the reason the scoring panel is made up of a number of experts is that it is not an easy job. There are plenty of vets who are crap at reading plates, so the average owner has no chance. My own thoughts on those plates is that whilst they wouldn't have me whooping with joy and expecting a brilliant score, neither would I expect the dog to be crippled. However I have seen x rays far worse than that on a dog who never had a days lameness. If those are the first x rays he has had taken, then presumably he was diagnosed without x raying so really it would be more of a guess than a diagnosis.
 
He throws his left hind out slightly sideways when running. I was paranoid because Zak's x ray shows that the femoral head was not in the socket and he did a similar throwing action as a youngster.

The vet who took the x ray said this x ray shows the dog to be a third of the way up the spectrum of 'hip dysplasia/bad hips'.

This is a 'normal' x ray (allegedly, I am no expert!)
normal-dog-hip.jpg


This is a really bad set of hips:
bad-hd-dog.jpg


This is Bear again for comparison:
IMAG0634.jpg


The position is truly awful, yes, he should have taken further plates, IMO. I am not happy with the diagnosis of a 'third of the way up the bad hip spectrum' so we will either be asking for a further, properly positioned plate or a referral. The vet diagnosed HD once he saw the x ray.

When Zak is neutered next month, I'll be asking for further x rays but I will say I'd prefer a specialist to do them. I know some dogs have hip issues that may resolve later: I think Zak will not resolve his, but I'm interested to see progress, if any and compare plates. Trouble is, the original plate was by the same vet. Surely he sometimes does plates for the BVA and knows how to do it properly?

We're back to the vet on Friday for a suture check on Bear's wound site: I'm going to ask to see the two x rays side by side. Should I mention at that point that I'm not happy with the plates?
 
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Not bad /not good..middling.If the dog is`nt for breeding why worry? Sometimes dogs with rotten hips never go lame anyway. Heard just the other day of field trial champion labs with grade 2 elbows for goodness sake! AND working daily and never lame.
 
I agree that the plates are poor and would definately voice that when you see the vet next. I would go for referral as you have said but ask if the specialist can do xrays and neuter at the same time so its just one anaesthetic). x

Just out of interest were there Left and Right markers on the plate because i cant see them??

xxx
 
Just a quick reply as I'm at work. I agree with EK, I really wouldn't bother to do more, he's not lame (loads of dogs throw legs about, look at the great Gsd hock debate !) and he's not going to be bred from. If you go with the vets 'third' level of hd that would give a score in 30s by no means a disaster in a non breeding animal.
 
Agree with EK and MM, I would not lose too much sleep over them if he is fit, well and not lame, they are not perfect but not terrible either. A lot of dogs have some degree of HD or general lameness and live to old age.
Best gaiting GSD I have seen had hips in the high 80s and I know of two dogs who's elbows are screwed who are working well with the right management. Just not for breeding obviously.

Also with Twiglet, there are usually L and R markers too.
 
EAST KENT said:
Not bad /not good..middling.If the dog is`nt for breeding why worry? Sometimes dogs with rotten hips never go lame anyway. Heard just the other day of field trial champion labs with grade 2 elbows for goodness sake! AND working daily and never lame.
Click to expand...

I'm concerned because his brother, Zak, can present very lame. Zak's x ray showed the femoral head partially out of the socket, quite noticeably. His x ray was over a year ago, so I'd like a further x ray to see if has partially/wholly resolved, but I doubt it as he still presents lame, throws a hind sideways, looks as my OH calls it 'gimpy' if tired, although has the nicest movement and is incredibly graceful if fresh.

Bear has odd movement sometimes (it's his x ray on here) and that's why we asked for a plate to be done. He is the type of dog to crash through cover, run flat out, bounce down the path like Tigger. I would prefer to know the severity or lack thereof so I can treat him accordingly. I don't want him restricted because the non-specialist vet thinks his hips are terrible.
 
Zaks' hip will not "resolve", in the nicest possible way. It will either deteriorate or stabilise.

Bear's, while they are not the prettiest I have ever seen and I bet would look much better if the dog was positioned properly, would not be what I would call terrible or severe.
 
One of the best moving GSDs I have owned had a hip score in the 90s, she was still winning veteran classes at 10 years old. :D
It is of course your choice, but in your shoes I wouldn't worry too much and just carry on as normal with Bear. The bitch I have just mentioned was a very active, good moving pup and I was so shocked when we had her x rayed. A specialist at liverpool veterinary university said she would probably be off her legs by 2 or 3 years old, possibly a bit later if I kept her restricted. I made the decision that if she was going to have a short life it was going to be a happy one, she ran, jumped, swam and as I have already said was shown successfully throughout her life, and was pts with cancer at nearly 13. Since her I have had a couple more with less than perfect hips and I have never treated them any differently, I did agility with one, again both lived into double figures and their hips gave them no problem.
 
CaveCanem said:
Zaks' hip will not "resolve", in the nicest possible way. It will either deteriorate or stabilise.

Bear's, while they are not the prettiest I have ever seen and I bet would look much better if the dog was positioned properly, would not be what I would call terrible or severe.
Click to expand...

That's what I meant, sorry. I don't see them magically becoming perfect!

I don't think they look too awful, but not amazing.
 
Clinical severity does not correlate with xray changes a lot of the time. Hence why clinical signs have to be taken with xrays. What would further plates show you? Nothing more. There is no massive problems. They are not perfect ideal hips. That's all that can really be said. It does not take a specialist vet to take hip xrays and interpret them. someone who knows nothing about xrays commenting on xray positioning is not likely to get a great response from the vet..
 
Besides which, all that hip dysplasia means is that they are more prone to osteoarthritis, and femoral head fracture. It's not a magic illness that means your dog is ill. it means incongruity, which means abnormal wear and tear which you can do very little about that you wouldn't do normally (unless severe and restricting exercise)
 
Thanks, Susie, I know, I don't want to challenge the vet, but equally, I don't want the dog to be restricted and that's the advice I've been given. That's a big lifestyle change for him aged only two. If he needs to be stopped from flying round, we'll do it, of course. I just want to be very sure.
 
I personally on those hips would not be restricting him unless he was lame. But that's me. Your vet has seen the dog etc. You could always take teh xray and email them to a specialist for all their flaws. They see enough xrays to be able to tell!
 
Movement and sensible exercise will aid the dog by building up muscle and keeping things mobile.Those hips are not anything to worry or lose sleep over,unless of course you are Hell bent on funding the vet`s Maldives fortnight.
 
Ha, no thanks! Moving yards on Saturday, doing cartrophen and hydro for Zak, vet out for a Dectomax for the horse last week, think I'll pass!

Think we'll obviously keep him quiet til the sutures come out then once he's back into his exercise, let him have a fairly normal life. :)
 
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