Vettings and viewings

[ponies4ever]

vetted 2 out of 3. Cheap and cheerful cob unvetted never had an issue and then passed a 2 stage when sold. the overgrown Irish pony was a little more expensive so vetted 2 stage passed fine. She passed a 5 stage with flying colours when sold. The big young one was a fair bit more money (still not huge amounts by many standards) and was 5 stage vetted. She passed but was under muscled, underweight and still growing so hard to tell a lot about her. A year on and she's had about three times the number of problems of the others combined and the jury is still out as to how much work she will be able to do.
If and when I buy another horse I doubt I will get an official vetting but will likely have hocks and back x-rayed. I would not buy a horse unseen even from a dealer I trust as I hate selling them so want to make sure I'm certain on the horse I pick.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I should clarify that these were musings really rather than a "what should I do post".
I have no intention of buying without vetting, I've been given plenty of sound advice here on this.
I admit I have considered buying unseen but more as a passing thought than seriously. I don't think it would be wise to buy something I've not sat on myself. Besides, I'd like to get an idea of if I like him or her as a person, if that makes sense.

 

[Northern]

I have never vetted. I have seen catastrophic issues on vetted horses that were never picked up, so I am somewhat dubious. Most of the horses I buy are cheap, so I take a punt and won't lament on FB if it goes wrong
The Haflinger is the most expensive horse I have bought, but I have her entire history from a foal and was happy with how she was at the viewing. She had only been ridden sporadically for 6 months post breaking and they are a historically tough breed. Subsequent visits by the vet for routine things haven't picked anything up that wouldn't have been at a vetting.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

I bought my welsh cob as an 8 month old Colt, at the time I was only a teenager & had saved up from my part time job for him so no way could I afford a vetting ontop of his gelding & injection - he's now nearly 15 & never had anything wrong with him that a vet would have picked up (a slight sticky stifle over the years & a pollen allergy). My rising 2 year old warmblood, again didn't vet - he'd had all the basic checks when he'd been gelded & had his injections, he's well bred with good conformation & if he doesn't end up eventing like I'm aiming to do, I like him enough to keep him regardless. I know so many people who've bought 10k plus horses & they've flown a vetting to be retired a year later for whatever reason - it's all down to personal choice at the end of the day. I would never buy unseen though, a lot of my decision is based on the person selling as well as the horse, so I like to meet them.

 

[SEL]

I should clarify that these were musings really rather than a "what should I do post".
I have no intention of buying without vetting, I've been given plenty of sound advice here on this.
I admit I have considered buying unseen but more as a passing thought than seriously. I don't think it would be wise to buy something I've not sat on myself. Besides, I'd like to get an idea of if I like him or her as a person, if that makes sense.

I know quite a few people who have bought off the back of a video from Ireland - I'm not that brave! Plus I agree that actually meeting the horse gives you that gut feeling sometimes as to whether or not you'll bond.

 

[Goldenstar]

We have recently seen on here the danger of buying unseen from a video .
Videos ( and viewing for that matter but that’s another subject ) are easily set up horse popping happily round a course of jumps natural and coloured fences that’s easily set up by repeating the same route for a couple of days .
A stuffy horse may have another one out of shot moving it on to the fences
Nothing beats sitting on a horse being in the stable with it watching what it’s handlers do and then doing something different, picking up it’s feet leaning on it a bit trying to assess what it’s like with it’s feet particularly it’s hind ones .
Assuming you are dealing with an working horse if you want to hack alone you need to do that when you try the horse .
I always hack them onto the yard then turn straight around and try to leave again I need them to see some traffic if they are already hacking out and about .
I will ride like a bit of a wally and if they back off a bit then ride strongly to see how they react .

 

[ycbm]

I know quite a few people who have bought off the back of a video from Ireland - I'm not that brave! Plus I agree that actually meeting the horse gives you that gut feeling sometimes as to whether or not you'll bond.

I think this is a very important point. It's unwise to buy unseen if you aren't prepared to sell the horse again quickly if you don't like it or have it PTS if there's something wrong with it that would be very expensive or take a long time to fix (or you enjoy running a rest home for broken horses). It's far too big a risk if you are trying to find your horse for life and don't like to sell.

I know of two bought from video from Ireland, from this forum. One was a hand smaller than it was sold as and had PSSM, though that might not have been known about. (Ffion Winnie) The second was an undisclosed shiverer, so immediately worth a lot less than was paid, had a severely cracked foot full of filler, and also turned out also to be the wrong horse for the rider (Catembi). Those two have put me off ever buying unseen from Ireland from a dealer, for the blatant dishonesty, and the extreme difficulty of returning the horse or getting any justice in a foreign legal system.

.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

When I was looking for my "dream horse", and seeing nothing below the £3000 sort of price which would suit me, I thought it folly not to have a vetting.

Three potential "dream horses" which the owner(s) swore were fully sound, failed the vet!! One was "one-tenths lame" on trot-up (also had small sarcoid which the owner "didn't realise was there"........ yeah, right) - which OK some would argue is the case with a lot of horses out there, but I wasn't prepared to take the risk of problems developing, as the horse was already on the top of my price-range and I didn't want to buy a potential field ornament.

When I did go to buy, I broke all my own rules!! I bought my youngster eighteen months ago - she'd been lightly backed, without a vetting. And then last autumn bought a "project" mare (no vetting) who'd had a vetting in Ireland in the June of last year (Five Stage, as she was for RDA and had apparently passed with flying colours). I brought her home after only having ridden her lightly at viewing, and it was obvious that she had obvious pain/dislike of being ridden issues at the mounting block which after investigation turned up a sacro-iliac problem. OK so this might have been evident earlier on at the "vetting", it might have developed since, as she'd been in a RS environment.

Vettings are only good for that horse, on the day, but SHOULD (but not always) provide a reassurance that nothing really nasty is developing, one would hope......... unless one goes to a thoroughly unscrupulous yard where horses are buted, which is why if I was in the market to buy now, I would always ask for bloods to be taken, just as a back-up.

 

[oldie48]

Just to add, i like to be at the vetting, not just so I can discuss any issues with the vet but also it's an opportunity to see how the horse reacts to being vetted, it's quite a good way to assess temperament. Which for me is absolutely crucial. Rose was vetted at the equine hospital that are my vets, so she was on completely new territory (I try to do this if the owner will agree) She behaved beautifully through out and although it's not one of the standard parts of a 5 stage vetting, it does tell you an awful lot about the horse.

 

[JFTDWS]

I don't tend to get horses vetted - but I tend to buy young, and cheap, which helps. I would also say I have a fairly good (/paranoid) eye for lameness / biomechanic issues.

I have technically bought one unseen - I went to see him after purchase, before he came down, but that was more of a social than a horse viewing! I also know a few people who've bought fairly successfully unseen from Ireland - but there have been issues with height (they shrink on the boat!) and other issues (e.g. PSSM but that could be missed at a viewing to be fair!).

The majority of cheap horses I see advertised, or in person, are not (in my opinion) sound. The last couple I've seen in person (for friends) have had significant issues - feet which are in need of serious rehab, or just lame.

 

[SEL]

Just to add, i like to be at the vetting, not just so I can discuss any issues with the vet but also it's an opportunity to see how the horse reacts to being vetted, it's quite a good way to assess temperament. Which for me is absolutely crucial. Rose was vetted at the equine hospital that are my vets, so she was on completely new territory (I try to do this if the owner will agree) She behaved beautifully through out and although it's not one of the standard parts of a 5 stage vetting, it does tell you an awful lot about the horse.

That is a very good point. My mare has started kicking with intent if a vet even considers doing a flexion test - if you saw that in a vetting you would a) realise she's not got the best temperament in the world and b) likely spot that she's had plenty of painful flexion tests in the past that would raise some interesting soundness questions!

BTW - this one was never vetted because she was free and unbacked but she has cost an absolutely fortune since in vet's bills. The vets have told me that PSSM would never have been picked up unless you were looking for it and did the relevant genetic test. They also reckon they would still pass my mare as hacking sound if they couldn't see her being ridden. She is currently unrideable with an as yet unidentified issue.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I bought all of mine for no more than £500, so didn't bother with a vetting. With my last 2, after them arriving my vet jabbed them, she was also a friend so checked their hearts, flexed them, trotted up sound and they both looked fine that was just for my piece of mind. Is that anything like a vetting?
They were both fine in full work until a year ago, one done his suspensory and the other has arthritis in his neck (that would of been missed anyway in a vetting I'm sure as he was always been so sound, so unless we x-rayed the neck can't see we would of found it)

I have always said on my next horse i'll get them vetted although I think i'd specifically ask for the vet I use now and is very experienced, as he says it as it is. It does always make me think though, I have a friend who had bad luck with her mare so bought a 5yr gelding for £7000 and had a 5* vetting, from a very well known eventer. He was hopping lame within 3 months and retired as of bone chips or something similar. He had a op but it was unsuccessful and he can possibly light hack. I'm not certain but I swear she got x-rays too but it was unseen.

 

[Ddraig_wen]

I've vetted once and the horse failed on lameness, I walked away and 12 years later the horse is still doing pony club and has an active life.

I don't usually vet and I have often bought unseen. I've so far *touch wood* never lost a horse to anything that would have shown up on a vetting. I've bought old and young, ridden and not.

However I am currently considering an ID who I would like to go on and be my new stallion. Even though he is a youngster I am strongly considering a vetting

 

[Orchard14]

Interesting reading these comments. I totally agree that getting a horse 5* vetted does not mean that a) they are totally sound and healthy or b) that they always will be or that c) a horse that hasn't vetted won't be. Buying horses is such a massive gamble. My horses have generally been homebred but I have bought a few in over the years, all of those have been vetted - even the cheaper ones. I didn't put the yearling colt through a full vetting, we did a simple walk and trot up, watched it run around in the field and did a heart check and then eyes and ears too.
We have sold horses in the past and we don't let them go without a 5 stage and xrays, mostly for selfish reasons. I don't want to be blamed for having sold a dodgy horse. That way the buyer is fully informed, spoken to their vet and made a decision on the evidence, I know the horse left me in a certain condition and it's less likely that anything can come back to me.

 

[sportsmansB]

I don't tend to vet but I do bring a very experienced friend with me and we do our own version to check wind / flexions etc.
I have bought horses which I know have not passed a vetting for someone else, because I've got them for a good price and I weighed up the risk (knowing what they failed on, obviously!)
To be honest unless you get a full set of xrays a lot can be missed in a 5 stage vetting (and even with xrays!)

I personally wouldn't buy unseen, but I'm buying a riding horse for me, and I only have one at a time- so I need to 'like' them in person, and like riding them. If I was buying something unbroken or to sell on, I might - but only from someone reputable.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I always vet and I always attend the vetting because none of the horses have been cheapies. The vet is working for the purchaser and needs to know as much as possible about what is expected of the horse by the potential purchaser. Especially if the horse is too far away to send your own trusted vet and you have to use an unknown vet. I always have blood stored.

A good example of this was when I looked at a privately advertised cob a few years ago. I knew she was going to fail as she had and still has hyperkeratosis. Not something I knew much about at the time. I was present at the vetting and was able to discuss the issue with the vet I had instructed. My own vet was away when I viewed the cob and I have to admit I was very worried to go ahead without her guidance, but the cob was a diamond in the rough and despite having frightened a few potential purchasers before I tried her, I knew she would be bought quickly if the right person looked at her so I couldn't delay. I had already got a lower than advertised purchase price negotiated due to its appalling manners, but with the vet failure another negotiation had to be done. Being present at the vetting let me tell the vet how badly schooled the cob was to the extent that when the diagonal was changed the cob bucked and felt lame, I could also tell the vet that the horse would take no contact whatsoever. Vetting is just a snapshot on the day of course, but if the vet is armed with lots of information about the purchaser they can make an informed decision about suitability as well as soundness and longevity. Ideally the vet needs to be a horseman as well as a vet .

I would even have a cheapy looked at for basics too, after all it is not cheap if it is blind or has a dodgy ticker. £200 to buy it plus £200 to shoot/remove it when you find out its knackered is still £400 wasted. Buy unseen ? not a hope in hell no matter where it is coming from.

 

[Merrymoles]

I have had two vetted (two stage) and in both cases it was because there was an issue I wasn't sure about myself. The first had a slightly odd action from the rear and the vet I used gave me the nod and said the stifle looked iffy and it would cost more to fix than the horse cost. My current horse had an occult sarcoid on his face which looked unsightly but didn't seem to be an issue so I wanted the vet to have a quick look at it. He passed a two-stage and I bought him for a good price because of the sarcoid. Six years on, it has not been an issue and, while I am aware that could change, I'm glad I took the risk.

I would not buy unseen but at my level of budget there are usually plenty of "not quite perfect" horses to have a look at in real life.

 

[Fransurrey]

I have bought unvetted twice. I knew the first pony and the second was a companion which would have failed anyway and was only 300.

I was going to buy one in January and had her 2 stage vetted as she was 4500. She failed. Aside from trotting up slightly lame and failing flexion on those legs, her attitude was shocking on the day of the vetting and the vet could barely check her teeth - I was there and it was quite an education. I then had my gelding vetted (sale price was 2500), but couldn't be there, as it was quite far away and I had to work, but that went swimmingly and the vet even commented that he would be a fab horse. He was right! After being given a horse many years ago, where the 'friend' 'forgot' to tell me he'd had an accident AND had ringbone, I'd never not vet again for a ridden horse, even if it was free.