Vettings - How much attention do you pay to them?

[Mooch]

Would you follow a vetting to the letter?

If for example a horse failed a vetting would you walk away from the horse?

Or, do you look at the individual reasons for the failure?

If you had a horse that was 1/8th lame on the flexion test, how would you feel about it?

I had a horse vetted today and she was spot on in every way, except she was lame on the front fore. It was from the flexion test (which I am not a great fan of) The vet did a flexion on the same leg again and she was better second time.

She was still slightly lame on the same leg when being lunged on the hard service. Fine when exercised on the soft ground.

On the final trot up, she was sound but she was nodding.

So, the big question now is what to do???????????

 

[truffles]

I know nothing, but would be very interested to see the replies - would the owner let you loan the horse first, to see if he/she actually went lame from whatever work you wanted to do with it...?

That is what I did. best of luck, hope it all works out for you!

 

[Mooch]

I'm going to have another word with the vet tomorrow (let him sleep on it) and then have a word with the owner too.

After the vet had gone and we were brushing her down, we did see 2 tiny nicks. One below and one on the feltock. Looks like she may have knocked her fetlock with her other shoe.

She is also in her stable at the mo (due to being up for sale), so I may ask the owner to turn her back out for a week and have her flexion tested next week.

 

[malibu_rocket]

My mare failed the dreaded flexion tests, but the buyers were still keen to have her, so she was retested after they'd had her on trial for a fortnight and she was fine.

 

[truffles]

I don't like flexion tests I must say - a bit harsh IMO.
My loan horse had trouble passing that bit too - she is fine now, but we were a bit unsure as she had gone lame a couple of times, so we were very wary, and felt loaning was the best option to do first. did actually go lame whilst we had her - we think it was a muscle thing, but getting back checked - and giving her a full MOT before we plunge into anything.

turnout will hopefully help a little.

 

[horsequester]

I know how you feel. i just bought a horse in the USA who was lame (only to the vets eyes!) after her flexion tests on both fores. We had x-rays done so i had a bit more to go on, we could see it was unlikely to be navicular. We have put it down to the fact that she is unshod and had not been worked for a couple of weeks prior to me trying her. it was a hard descision because she is highly trained so a bit expensive and i want her to take me on our ride around the USA. The vet did say he thought she would be OK but ! Anyway I did it I could never have found another one quite like her...

Even so NO FOOT NO HORSE so the saying goes, so watch our website and see if she makes it!

 

[horsequester]

One reason I made the descision on the horse in the states is that my horse here needed vetting just after I bought her for insurance purposes, she actually passed her flexion test by the vet but the livery manager thought she was lame as the vet watched her and ... yes she was lame for several weeks after, only a little but enough. Her last owner said she had never been lame before...lo and behold she hasn't been lame again in the two years since... No i do not like flexion tests either! Are they really nescesary? Perhaps they cause more harm than good!

 

[Tierra]

Difficult one. How old is the horse?

Flexion tests are rather harsh on older horses and Ive seen animals that have never been lame a day in their life fail vettings on flexion tests.

That being said..... I'd personally want the horse to be sound when trotted up at the end. Why was it nodding if there wasn't an issue somewhere along the lame? Similarly with the lunging.

It's upto you at the end of the day. Depending upon the value of the horse and it's intended purpose, I'd possibly consider xrays to find out exactly whats going on. Do you know anything about the horse's past? Or is it a blind purchase ?

 

[truffles]

[ QUOTE ]
One reason I made the descision on the horse in the states is that my horse here needed vetting just after I bought her for insurance purposes, she actually passed her flexion test by the vet but the livery manager thought she was lame as the vet watched her and ... yes she was lame for several weeks after, only a little but enough. Her last owner said she had never been lame before...lo and behold she hasn't been lame again in the two years since... No i do not like flexion tests either! Are they really nescesary? Perhaps they cause more harm than good!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, Chloe's owner also was shocked to hear she failed the vetting - she is an Irish hunter cob type - tough cookie and never went lame beforehand. They had told us she had been a little sore, but not hopping lame, got better, vet did a flexion test and made her lame again! Sounds very dodgy, but I wouldn't delve into it if I didn't think she was a bit special.

Good luck mooch, would love to hear how it goes!

 

[Mooch]

She is 10 rising 11. TB mare.

The owner was really narked as he has never seen her lame.

We are only talking a 1/8 on that fore. I don't think some people would have seen it to be honest, but that is what you pay the vet for. lol

She wasn't lame on the trot up at the end but she did nodd a couple of times.

My concern is that the lameness showed on hard standing. It might be something or nothing! But, I have also thought that lamness on hard ground normal relates to bone and lamness on the soft is probably nerves, tendons, muscles or soft tissue issues.

I am hoping that the 2 little nicks we could see at the end have something to do with it, rather than it being a more ingrained issue.

If she lived with me, she would live out 24/7 and I would exercise her mostly along the lanes (so, hard surfaces).

I have no specific job for her to do at this stage but the owner would still be able to hunt her and take her out cubbing and stuff for me (I wouldn't be happy with my own riding at this stage to do it myself)

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr not slept all bloody night!!!

 

[Mooch]

Your soon to be adventure sounds amazing!

The horse isn't expensive to some people, but I have never paid so much for one.

She would be for keeps, so I would be looking to keep her for a very long time and obviously develop our bond and what we do with each other.

I think the decision would be easier if I wanted her for a specific job.

I'm going to call the owner in a min and see how she is today.

 

[SilverSkye]

My mare was 1/10 lame on th flexion test and therefore failed the vetting i wasnt looking for a world beater so used it as a bargaining tool and paid £2000 with tack and all rugs, that was nearly 7 years ago now and touch wood she has never been a problem!
I had decided that i really wanted the horse having tried thousands and they agreed to me having her on a months trial, the rest shall we say is history i have hunted, sj, 1 day evented all sorts and she has always stood upto it really well.
Is a difficult decision i sobbed when my mare failed as i wanted her so much but didnt want problems good luck with it and im sure youll keep us updated

 

[GatefieldHorses]

I think full vettings are a waste of money. Check eyes, heart and lungs etc.

You can make a horse lame through flexions (you try standing on one leg with someone holding ur leg up as far as it will go for 30 seconds then run off. You will be stiff!!!!

A vetting only stands up in a court of law for the day of the vetting. You can tell if a horse is lame or not.
If it goes out in the field thje next day, goes lame and is never sound again then thats your problem so why waste money on a vetting.

And as for loaning to find out if it will go lame, i would never ever do that. No offence meant to anyone but people are idiots with horses sometimes.
I loaned a 16 yr okdnare out as a companion/hack if borught back into work. She hadnt been ridden for 5 yrs,. and they took her out within 2 days showjumping.

 

[truffles]

[ QUOTE ]
I think full vettings are a waste of money. Check eyes, heart and lungs etc.

You can make a horse lame through flexions (you try standing on one leg with someone holding ur leg up as far as it will go for 30 seconds then run off. You will be stiff!!!!

A vetting only stands up in a court of law for the day of the vetting. You can tell if a horse is lame or not.
If it goes out in the field thje next day, goes lame and is never sound again then thats your problem so why waste money on a vetting.

And as for loaning to find out if it will go lame, i would never ever do that. No offence meant to anyone but people are idiots with horses sometimes.
I loaned a 16 yr okdnare out as a companion/hack if borught back into work. She hadnt been ridden for 5 yrs,. and they took her out within 2 days showjumping.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course people are idiots with horses - you are always going to get that, but with one bad experience it doesn't mean everyone else is going to do that. I did and was so glad I didn't jump into it straight away.

 

[EquestrianFairy]

Ive just done a thread on the general page about my boy who is older and had a flexon test done today and he went lame on every leg, possible arthritis. In that sort of case id say it needed to be done, although i am completely devasted myself as hes not lame on a normal trotting up.

Now it looks like (after xrays to confirm) that hell have to be retired, i cant belive it, its such a waste of an amazing horse!

 

[Weezy]

Oh you didnt tell me it was on a flexion Mooch! In that case I wouldnt be worried at all and I would use the *lameness* to your advantage and knock the price down to what I said!

 

[dieseldog]

If I paid a vet £250 to check a horse over I would listen to what he had to say and if it failed a flexion test I would walk away, otherwise why get it vetted. I wouldn't buy a hore that failed a vetting as when you come to sell it you know its going to fail again

 

[lucemoose]

Sorry to jump in, but do you need a full 5 stage vetting to get a horse insured? Mine had a 5 stage back in feb 06 , but apparently too much time has elapsed to use that certificate. Would a 2 stage suffice ? If anyone knows...

 

[Marbs]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to jump in, but do you need a full 5 stage vetting to get a horse insured? Mine had a 5 stage back in feb 06 , but apparently too much time has elapsed to use that certificate. Would a 2 stage suffice ? If anyone knows...

[/ QUOTE ]

Would depend on who the insurance is with and for how much the horse is to be insured for as to weather a 2 stage will be enough.

 

[madhector]

mine failed on flexion test and tight circles, but shes sound other wise and passed one 6 months ago no prob, doesnt make sense to me

 

[lucemoose]

thank you..will investigate.
have always been wary of the flexion tests, theres been quite a lot of research into whether they are actually warranted.

 

[Mooch]

Lou, the lamness showed on the front fore on the flexion and working in a tight circle on the hard standing at trot.

Work on the soft ground was fine. On the final trot up she wasn't lame but nodded on that leg for a couple of strides.

I found out today that she has been in the stable for 5 weeks now and only got turned out for the first time yesterday for about 15mins after the vet had gone.

Up to that point she was out 24/7.

I'm wondering if standing in her box for this long is what is making her lame?

I went back to see her today and she is lame on that fore. Working on the hardstanding, she falls in, and when we put her in the field.

The owner has got the vet going out to the yard tomorrow for another horse that needs tubing, so he is going to get him to have a look at him.

 

[Mooch]

It all depends on the value of the horse and the individual insurance company.

Some ask for a 5 Stage if you are insuring over a certain amount, others may have a higher amount but ask for one if you want to insure for loss of use.

Best check each of the individual insurances companies to see what they ask for.

 

[Mooch]

Doesn't make any sence to me either.

I'm just more concerned today as she is still lame and we didn't do a flexion today, just trotted her on a circle and in a straight line.

She is sound in a straight line.

She just falls in on the circle and is short on that leg.

She was still falling in when we took her on the field too today but again fine in a straight line.

 

[ihatework]

Assuming you have ruled out minor bruising to the sole etc. I would walk away.
At the right price I would consider a failed flexion, but unsoundness on a circle I would not.

 

[Patches]

How long ago was she shod Mooch? Do her feet look long?

Patches trotted up lame on a circle (but not after flexion), which corresponding with her all too frequent tripping ended with 6 x-ray plates being taken. Vet was convinced she had navicular. However, all the x-rays showed was a horse who's feet were out of balance. She was re-shod according to the x-rays and vet's instructions and we've not looked back since. The shoeing previously was causing her heel pain and making her slide her foot down instead of her foot rolling over the toe from the heel first. (if that makes sense).

All that has changed now, thank God!

 

[Mooch]

No, nothing wrong with her soles. Fully checked on the vetting.

 

[Blizzard]

Ive just been in your situation Mooch.

The horse I wanted passed a 5 stage 6 months ago but was slighlty lame on one of his flexions, a fore too I believe.
However the yard owner knows the horse well and had a vet out 2 days later to retest the horse, and he passed all legs with flying colours.

The yard owner didnt believe the 1st vet was right in the first place.

I dont rate flexion tests highly anyway.

 

[Mooch]

Hello hunny,

She was shod 2 weeks ago, feet look great. Not long at all.

Vet obviously checked all her feet, nothing showed up.

Did you see my bit earlier about seeing her today?

 

[Mooch]

I'm not a great fan of flexions either, but she was lame on the circle too!

I have been back tonight and she was still lame and more so at one point but then less at another point.

Very frustrating.

The owner had his own vet out tomorrow to another horse, so he is going to get him to look at her too.