Vices. Do horses copy?

Vetwrap

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 May 2002
Messages
1,345
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
It's a genuine question, not to be inflammatory.

My youngster was on box rest for about 6 weeks over the summer and whilst in started to go through most of the vices - cribbing, weaving, windsucking... We largely prevented him from weaving by making small haylage balls out of small haynets and tying them around his stables to keep him amused. The cribbing and windsucking seemed half hearted, but there was another horse on his block which was a determined windsucker and cribber and would literally swing from his stable door...

This horse has now left the yard and my youngster **seems** to have given up the cribbing/windsucking. Obviously, I am not there all the time, but he doesn't do it when I am around.

Has anyone else seen their horse give up a vice? I always felt as though it was a pretty half hearted attempt at it...
 

GeeUp&Go

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 May 2008
Messages
108
Location
West Yorkshire
Visit site
I read a few scientific papers once upon a time, and i think it said they cant copy. However, the conditions that the horse was under to precipitate the vice is probably similar to the situation of the horse that 'copied' the stereotypy. ie, if a horse is in a small stable with no stimulation, a horse across the corridor may develop the same stereotypy, because it too was in a small stable with little stimulation.

I hope that kind of makes sense.
 

Mlini

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 August 2011
Messages
629
Visit site
Mine windsucks and has been current yard 6 months - none of the other horses have copied him. But he was once stabled next to a weaver and was seen to weave.
I think it depends on the horse. My horse is fairly young and gets bored easily.
 

Vetwrap

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 May 2002
Messages
1,345
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
Thanks for the replies. I have done a couple of courses that looked at behaviours as well and we all concluded that horses don't copy. It was interesting to me that none of the other horses displayed any vices and now that the other horse has gone, my boy has seemingly stopped too!

But then, if you could train a horse to exhibit certain behaviours purely through repetitive demonstration, we could all do wonderful dressage simply by playing Olympic Kur on a loop! ;)

Just a thought!
:)
 

rhino

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2009
Messages
10,113
Location
Border Reiver
Visit site
It was interesting to me that none of the other horses displayed any vices and now that the other horse has gone, my boy has seemingly stopped too!

But didn't the 'vice' start when your horse was on box rest; so you could also theorise it was the stress caused by being in/away from herd/injured that led to the development of stereotypic behaviour. This behaviour then stopped when the 'stress' was removed; i.e. the horse went back out? :D
 

scarymare

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 October 2010
Messages
1,250
Visit site
No they don't.

I have an 'international cribber' who has bred me 2 foals. For various reasons, they have been stabled at first. Mare really is 24/7 even when in field. Neither has cribbed. Mind you, I'm mighty glad that this year's foal (very very clever) has teamed up with something else and dumped its mother tbh as the 'chewing stage' always makes me a little bit nervous......
 

indiat

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 August 2009
Messages
2,884
Visit site
I was always told they copy but we had a confirmed wind sucker on our yard for two years, we suspect he had ulcers because he had this vice in his previous home and no matter what was done ie, living out, stabled, ridden every day, days off, he didn't stop. He wrecked stabling and fencing but none of the other animals on the yard picked up his habit. He has since changed hands, I have no idea if he wind sucks in his new home.
 

ElleSkywalker

As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
Joined
9 March 2011
Messages
12,640
Location
Tiny farm some where in UK
Visit site
I did my dissertation on learning in horses, most specifically coping behaviours and found thro lit review & research that after foal hood horses don't copy/learn from each other.

Geeup&go describes it well, basically horses showing the same stereotypical behaviours are not coping each other but doing it because they have the same/similar management which has lead to the behaviour, ie horses not feed much forage crib biteing, and bored/under exercised horses weaving.
 

*hic*

village idiot :D
Joined
3 March 2007
Messages
13,989
Visit site
According to the books, no they don't. Mine appear, however, not to have read the books.

They learn nice things from each other too. For example, my little old Welsh is a clever little beast and he knows full well that the old muck heap is warm and comfortable to lie on. None of the others have ever realised this - until he has shown them by example, after which they catch on and can be found there in freezing weather, even when he's not there to lead by example.
 

Cop-Pop

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 October 2007
Messages
8,667
Location
Glos, UK
Visit site
I always thought they did. My mare only chews wood when others are doing it like a communal thing, otherwise she doesn't bother about it!

When YOs horse discovered the veg patch all of hers started eating it and when he discovered how to get the handing basket down to eat so did all of hers.
 

*hic*

village idiot :D
Joined
3 March 2007
Messages
13,989
Visit site
I always thought they did. My mare only chews wood when others are doing it like a communal thing, otherwise she doesn't bother about it!

When YOs horse discovered the veg patch all of hers started eating it and when he discovered how to get the handing basket down to eat so did all of hers.

Ah, yours haven't read the books either!
 

*hic*

village idiot :D
Joined
3 March 2007
Messages
13,989
Visit site
OK having read your OP again but properly this time.

My little AA mare was travelled frequently as a youngster and was perfectly happy with it and would stand quietly for hours. When she started eventing she would travel by herself in the lorry and stand perfectly quietly and happily for hours. Then her rider's main horse came back to eventing and he has a naughty habit of scraping his teeth along the tack lockers and does it manically whilst he's on board. Suddenly my girl started to do it too. Every time she went out with him they'd both be their grinding their teeth down. When he stopped going she'd do it halfheartedly and then stop.

She never even tried it in my lorry.
 

Vetwrap

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 May 2002
Messages
1,345
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
OK having read your OP again but properly this time.

My little AA mare was travelled frequently as a youngster and was perfectly happy with it and would stand quietly for hours. When she started eventing she would travel by herself in the lorry and stand perfectly quietly and happily for hours. Then her rider's main horse came back to eventing and he has a naughty habit of scraping his teeth along the tack lockers and does it manically whilst he's on board. Suddenly my girl started to do it too. Every time she went out with him they'd both be their grinding their teeth down. When he stopped going she'd do it halfheartedly and then stop.

She never even tried it in my lorry.

Excellent - I'm perhaps not going mad then! He is a real character (aren't they all?), but the thing that interested me was that the horse that windsucked was the only other horse on the block that he took a real shine to. Odd though it sounds, they were same breed, same colouring and it was almost as though my young horse went with the theory that "imitation is the greatest form of flattery"...

It always was a very half hearted effort though.

He is now out, but has been since the end of August. The behaviour had continued at specific times (just after being given a treat usually) even if the treat was not given over the stable door - and after feeds - until the day after the other horse left the yard.

I guess the only conclusion is that they are all individuals and some will copy and some won't. My other horse is stabled next door to my youngster and really couldn't be bothered with anything like that. Different mentality entirely. :)
 

jsr

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2009
Messages
1,093
Visit site
My boy is stabled next to a head banger (lol..doesn't weave he throws his head up and down!) and across from a cribber and foot scrapper and has been for the last 2 years and he absolutely does not show any signs of any vices and neither does any of the other 20 plus horses stabled with them. ;)
 

starryeyed

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 October 2011
Messages
3,568
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
Ours have definitely copied! All 3 of them have been completely vice free until the loan horse turned up (every vice under the sun)
She's a huge cribber, and now 2 of them have started cribbing after watching her do it to the fence, i've never, ever, seen either of them do it before she came here (about a week or 2 after her arrival?)
One weaves because he's seen her do it too, never shown that behaviour before in his life. And they're all in their teens now, we've owned one his whole life, one for 11 years and one for getting on 7, we've never seen them show any signs of it before she came so unfortunately i know it's her who's taught them her evil ways!
 
Last edited:
Top