Victim of field bullying - sorry it's long

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davisn

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Hi everyone, I hope you all had a good Christmas.

I'd like to hear people's advise please. After losing 2 horses to separate field accidents this year (including losing my beautiful baby Cloud after she fell into a ditch) I want to make sure I do everything I can to minimise further risks.

I have 2 horses in DIY livery. Storm is a 6 year old appolosa mare & Rogue is a 13 year old TB mare. For the last 6 weeks they have been turned out in a large field, split in half with electric fencing. 2 large hunter mares are in with my girls & there are 5 geldings in the other half.

Everything has been fine until last Friday. I went to get my girls in for the night (only turned out during the day) & Rogue had received a nasty kick to her near hind leg. The cut looked superficial but it was a powerful kick which has resulted in quite a bit of bruising. I cleaned the wound, gave her some bute & put my 2 back out with some hay so that she could walk around & help the stiffness.

I thought that this was just a one off, so I didn't change turnout arrangements, but went down to the yard regularly to check she was ok. Anyway, Sunday lunch time I went to check & she'd received another 2 kicks on her off hind leg. Poor girl was struggling as she didn't know which one to rest, so I brought her in & called the vet out. After 2 vet visits, they think that there is no permanent damage, but bad bruising down to the bone.

I have moved my 2 out of the field, into a small paddock, but there is very little grass so I have been putting out hay for them. They haven't really taken to the new arrangements & spend a lot of their time looking at the other field & calling to their friends.

The YO wants me to move my girls back into the main field, but I'm not happy to do this until Rogue is sound & we know why she is being bullied. One of the other mares is not working at the moment due to a sore back, but she is still being fed a huge amount of hard feed. Could that be enough to make her kick out? These are serious kicks & she us usually sensible enough to get out of the way if there is a warning, so something wierd is going on with the herd dynamics. I don't want to wrap them up in cotton wool, but equally I am not going to keep putting her in harms way knowing there is a problem.

Am I being unreasonable?
 
If it was me I would stick with what you are doing at the moment. If you had to put yours back with the others I would insist that hind shoes are removed and hard feed cut down as much as possible.

Can't a bit of the big field be separated for yours at all?

Sorry about the two you've lost
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No you arent. I had a massive argument with my last YO over a similar thing.

Mine was kicked 4 times in a 4 month period. Two of which needed stitches and the final one nearly landed us at leahurst for joint flushing.

The YO herself admitted that she wanted him out on his own, which initially he was.

After he'd healed and so on, she changed her mind and said he had to go back out with the others. After much arguing, i agree'd. Just before i left the yard he was kicked again and went into complete panic mode which saw him charging round the field, falling over and giving himself a concussion (im not kidding..) He was off work for roughly 9 months out of the 12 due to injuries

Luckily for me we were emigrating anyway and he came with me. Since being on this yard, i stated very early on that he was going out on his own and they accommodated that just fine. In summer hes out in a small paddock with others next door to him that he can chat to. In winter we dont turn out so hes just loose in the school on his own.

He gets plenty of social interaction due to the layout of the stables and im not constantly receiving phone calls telling me my horse needs a vet.

I lost one of my old horses after he was kicked in the field and broke his leg... many disagree with me im sure but i wont risk it anymore. That being said, my yard dont like putting horses out together anyway so it all works fine
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Its all well and good going with the attitude that you should let them sort it out themselves, but putting a horse in unnecessary danger to me, is silly.
 
My cob has always been bullied, no matter where we've been. We've had brand new rugs with massive damage, the back end of his Boett rug ripped off him, kicks, bites etc etc, and even a splint due to a kick on a foreleg. Thanks God nothing serious, but I've had friends lose horses on DIY livery with unsatisfactory turnout.

The relief when we finally got our own field, and turned him and the companion we'd bought out together was huge. She has since turned into a right old bag, and he is scared to death ofher at feed time. but they are all our horses (nearly! one on loan) and he is the only one with back shoes on, and it's our decision who gets turned out where.

I know it can make you feel like you're being an awkward livery, but all horses are different, and if you want to keep yours seperate, then you should, bullying is horrible and you can see how miserable the victim gets, my lad has had times when he's looked really fed up and scared. Hope you get it sorted.
 
Thanks DiablosGold.

I did suggest making anothe enclosure for my 2, but YO wasn't keen on this idea. I understand that it's not easy for the YO to make special arrangements for everyone, but I do feel like I have a good reason, i'm not just asking to make thier life more difficult or mine easier!
 
Is it the horse in your sig?

When i first arrived at my new yard and told them the problems id had with bullying, the stable master replied very matter of factly "of course you do, hes grey". I couldnt figure out what he meant so asked, and he said that it goes back to a herd instinct in the wild. Grey horses, white horses, coloured with a lot of white on them endanger the herd as they're easier to spot from a distance. So many horses just dont like having them around and they're more likely to get bullied or rejected from a herd.

God knows if its true but its a widely held belief on our yard as the only other two greys are paired up and go out together for the same reason.
 
Never heard that before Tierra.

Doesn't ring true for my situation though. Rogue is a chestnut, it would appear that it is a grey doing the bullying. My other one is white with spots & she hasn't had a mark on her since she arrived!
 
Makes you wonder what a herd of white/grey horses do then!


I would suggest that either you be allowed to fence off part of the half field yours are on, so the field is split into three (maybe you could ease this by supplying the extra tape/posts required) or you ensure you stick with your own paddock. Your two will soon settle away from the others as they still have each other for company.
 
cant you speak to your YO and tell her what you have gone through in lossing you other two horse, and see if you could sort something out, surely she would understand. it must be really hard for you to deal with having your horse getting kicked like this. speak to her there is no harm in trying.. good luck hope you sort it
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I feel for you, my horse was constantly injured when out in a herd. I put it down to him being 4 and hoped he would mature and grow out of it. Its hard where we live as land is at a premium and to get individual or few horses in a field is rare. Luckily for me we managed to move to a yard where there were only 3 other geldings in the field. Everything was great then one day I found him with a fractured radius. He is now on his own and although its great, no injuries or worries, I do feel sorry for him. He was constantly playing and the games wer rougher and rougher. He is grazed next to his mates, seperated by electric fencing and although he seems fine I often feel bad about it as he loved grooming.
 
That is always going to be a problem when you are on some-one elses land. We found the only solution was for my sister and I to sell our seperate houses and buy one with some land together.
 
I have an awful lot of horses and my LARGEST group is 4 (and that's 3 fillies and a very laidback gelding who have been together since weaning - theyget on fine.) Almost everything else goes in groups of 2 or 3 who get on - either because they're friends or because one is Alpha and the other/s so far down the pecking order it stays out of the way. ALL the shod horses go out singly - I won't have shod horses in the same field. I VERY rarely get paddock injuries.

MOST horses will bully others if they can. I have an old TB brood mare who had always been bottom of the pecking order in whatever group she was with. Because we were having trouble keeping condition on her, I put her with an old RID mare who is even FURTHER down the pecking order (hell, her own foal can drive her off her food - as can any other foal.) The TB mare has turned into a total bully! Luckily the RID mare just quietly gets out of the way!

I do NOT understand yard owners who won't accomodate smaller groups - electric fence is cheap - and happy customers with uninjured horses are FAR better for business!
 
I am so sorry for you. I agree with the others - I would not have my horse turned out with another that has shoes on behind. Your girl needs her own safe turnout and as others have said electric fencing is cheap. You are PAYING for the service - you don't get your livery for free so reasonable requests should be complied with unless absolutly impossible. Protecting your horses health is essential - not reasonable!

Horses do play particularly geldings who are friends who seem to play all of the time. Foals play together and learn how hard it is acceptable to bite and kick each other - but foals do not have shoes. A kick from an unshod horse is totally different from a kick from a shod one. I don't know what the others here have found but I have rarely seen mares play with each other, particulalry as they get older. So most kicking between mares is aggression based, not play. Contact is very rarely made as the dominent mare will make her intentions very clear by postureing and threats. So unless there's a power struggle going on, with a small herd that gets along there shold be relative harmony.

If this horse is not playing but means harm then its a recipe for disaster, shod or unshod - it will just take longer for serious damage to occur. I hope you can sort something out for your poor mare
 
I had to move yards as my mare was suffering the same fate as yours and i was often in the firing line when i went to get her in and they still refused to let me move her out into another field.

My poor girl had bite marks and hoof marks over a period of about a month or 2 and in htat time she turned from a very chilled out sweet mare to something that got awkward and aggressive to catch for a while.
 
Thanks for your comments everyone. I'll have another word with the YO & see if we can agree some sort of compromise.

I think I might need the vet out again. Rogue wasn't walking as well yesterday as she has been for the last couple of days & her bute paste (can't get the powder in her no matter what I try) runs out today. There's a lot of swelling on the near hind which is very hard & solid, although no heat at all. She's not eating her hard feed much either & won't even take a carrot from the hand, but she is eating hay. Poor chicken.
 
My horse was the bully in the field this summer, and I had no problem with taping her off from the other horses. Have you spoken to the owner of the mares. Hopefully if she's reasonable you could both approach the yard owner about sectioning off your mares within the same field. If the two of you put up the post and tape, then its not really affecting the YO. Then at least the other owner doesn't have to alter feed or take off shoes if she doesn't want to, and your mares are safe. If the YO refuses this then I would seriously consider moving. Good luck.
 
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