Video: back/pelvic/hock problems in horse?

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wedgenib

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Hi guys, this is my first post in this forum so I do apologise if it's in the wrong category or anything.

Anyhoo, I am wondering if anyone can offer any information on the following?

https://youtu.be/a1XOpTJUYlU

In the video, it is a mare who has not seemed 'right' for the past few weeks and seems to have really weird leg movements - she seems to be 'twisting' her back nearside leg when she is putting it down and pushing off again.

(the farrier also said her hoof is flat, so I don't believe the problem is due to a mis-shaped hoof)

She has been disunited in canter, almost paces in trot, and has extremely high head carriage while under-saddle. She is also almost constantly resting her nearside back leg when standing still (the same one that seems to twist when she is placing it on the floor).

When she was bought, she had an ill-fitting saddle that she was ridden in maybe a handful of times, and in the past three weeks has had another saddle fitted for her.

She is very long-legged and her conformation is not too great. Is this something that is down to her conformation and lack of strength through the hind, is it likely she has developed pelvic problems due to the saddle or could it be hock problems?

Lastly, she is being seen to very soon by all necessary people, I am just wondering what we can expect or if someone has had similar can offer something to make her more comfortable. She is also not going to be ridden again until she is sound.
 
The video shows her on an uneven surface so it is hard to have a real guess as to what is going on, a video of her on a hard flat surface in walk and trot and also on the lunge would make things clearer, something is going on with the near hind but whether it is her natural movement, which it can be, or whether it is due to a problem is something only your vet will be able to decide.

It could be many things and in this case the vet would be my first call before saddler/ physio as if it is something such as spavin appropriate treatment to help will need to be done then physio to help build her up correctly, I guess you have not had her long and that this has shown up as you have done more with her or started to look more closely, it may be something minor but best checked out as soon as you can.
 
She rotates the foot slightly when it lands and this is what makes me wonder if it is her hock that is the problem as it is painful to move in the normal way. Your farrier is right by what he says. Her hoof and the balance and shape of it would have a very large influence on the way she places her foot, you should not under estimate just how much. A bad farrier can cripple a horse over time, in much the same way a good farrier can make a lame horse much more comfortable by correct trimming and foot balance.

As be positive has stated, a lameness examination would be a good start. Your vet will want to see her lunged on a surface and trotted up on hard ground. He may do a flexion test which will give him more of an indication of where the problem lies and with what joint. My guess (and that's all it is) would be that she has spavin which is easily treated for the vast majority of hroses. I think this because of the way she is moving, and also because you say she is often dissunited in canter (a giveaway clue) and that she rests the same leg.
 
She is walking in a similar way to a mare that used to be at my yard. That horse had a hock spavin (thought to be the cause) and also a bit of arthritis in the foot.

Might be worth look at the foot balance/toes. My horse had poor farriery that caused uneven heel height from side to side and then the heels underrun which meant he weas landing toe first causing trauma upward resulting in sore hocks. Check the feet and might be worth a flexion test on the hocks aswell to see how easily the mare can trot away on a level concrete surface.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, they are really helpful and I will pass on your comments.

be positive, you are right in your guess - she was bought late last summer but has only recently started working properly again as her owner has found a part loaner for her (I loan her other pony). It's such a shame really as we had no idea of these problems and are now so worried we have hurt her during the few times she has been ridden. She is such a sweetheart.

The saddler was only called as we could visibly see that it didn't fit her properly, and the problems weren't really noticeable at this point. Knowing that it should be vet first is extremely helpful though.

I know it's not much help without being able to see it but I can say that she is the same on a flat, hard surface too (just don't have any videos). Although I can't say much for trotting so I will get her on the lunge as soon as this wind and rain goes away!

applecart and Beth, I will definitely recommend that she get a second farrier just to come and check the hoof too. The one we have is good, but it can do no harm just double-checking :)
 
Quick update...

Looked at her a little closer today and decided to have a 'play around' moving her foot etc.

She showed signs of being unhappy the moment that I went to pick her leg up, and then seemed reluctant to hold it up and kind of just let it 'hang' there.

Here's where I got worried. I really don't know much about this bone spavin, so am unaware if this is a symptom, but on flexion/extension of the hoof, I could feel quite obvious crepitus around the pastern/fetlock area - I even HEARD it at one point ��.

Is this now something that is an indicator of a long-term degenerative bone problem, or something more acute and sinister?
 
wedgenib said:
Here's where I got worried. I really don't know much about this bone spavin, so am unaware if this is a symptom, but on flexion/extension of the hoof, I could feel quite obvious crepitus around the pastern/fetlock area - I even HEARD it at one point ��.

Is this now something that is an indicator of a long-term degenerative bone problem, or something more acute and sinister?
Click to expand...

I am curious how you came by the word 'crepitus?' This is a veterinary word to explain an number of conditions and isn't the obvious choice of word for the 'layman'.
The word Crepitus is usally meant in situations where two fractured bones can be felt rubbing together although it is obviously not the case in your horse. The word is also used to describe when lungs become compromised due to a lung condition.

In the situation of joints, crepitus can easily be introduced by exerting a small amount of force on a joint, thus 'cracking it'. This is caused by bubbles of nitrogen forming in the synovial fluid bursting. Almost every joint in the body can be 'cracked' in this way, but the joints which require the least amount of effort include the finger knuckles, knee joints and neck joints in humans. This doesn't necessarily mean there is wear and tear in this area, and does not always indicate arthritis. And even if it does indicate wear and tear, this does not necessarily mean the route cause of the problem, this could be a secondary problem.
 
OP even if it is spavin it’s not the end of the world. When my horse got diagnosed in 2009 I thought, here we go, that’s another horse I will lose. But if I knew then what I know now I wouldn’t have worried so much. There is usually plenty of treatments designed to help your horse. The most important one is good effective shoeing, and the vet may (depending on what he finds) speak with your farrier and suggest remedial shoeing of some sort, if this will benefit the horses movement. Some horses place their feet in a different way to other horses to avoid painful joints, and if this is the case and your horses ‘foot placement’ is incorrect, farriery is a good way to solve this problem with lateral extensions which are simply extensions of the shoe on the outside edge of the foot or other shoe adaptations.

The horse’s workload may need to be adapted so he is not worked on too hard ground, trotted for too long on roads, or worked on too deep a surface, as this will cause problems with this condition. Usually horses can continue to show jump, and dressage up to a high level without a problem.
Sometimes all that is needed are joint injections. These are corticosteroid injections with the addition of HA (hylaruonic acid) which assists in the lubrication of the joint. An anti-inflammatory product is mixed with the HA and sometimes an anitibiotic is also added to reduce the chance of joint infection which is a very small risk associated with any type of joint injection. Joint injections can be done at home, although I usually opt to take my horse in to the vets to reduce any risk. The horse will have to be kept in for 48 hours after the injection unless his turnout is not onto grass. This is because there is a small risk of laminitis with the use of steroids.

Usually a steroid injection once a year into the joint will keep most horses ticking over for a few years, although some horses may find that injections need to be repeated at twice yearly intervals, it all depends on how well your horse copes.
After that there is a choice of other treatments but there is no point going into all this unless your vet has diagnosed spavin.
Please don’t worry, but do try to get a vets appointment as soon as you can as the sooner you treat any problem you encounter and give it everything, the sooner you will get results and minimise any damage already caused.

Good luck, keep us updated :)
 
Applecart, I know the term as I study Biology at uni and am an ambulance assistant for people in my spare time haha. It's also why I got so worried as I recognised the symptom, which is usually associated with a fracture.

All I had done was pick up her back foot as a farrier would and moved her hoof up and down and it was going for it. Her other back one was fine; no grinding and no weird noise.

In addition, she seemed to become aware what I was doing after the first couple of tries and started to fight with me with the one that seems to be causing the problems but not with the other one.

Is there anything that we can do to make her extra comfortable until the vet can get out to it?
 
UPDATE:

Right guys, she has finally had the vet out and had a diagnosis...

Vet said ringbone; worst in her nearside hind but present in offside hind too. In addition to this, she has osteoarthritis elsewhere in the leg (sorry can't be specific, I wasn't actually there for the exam). She's been prescribed bute and we've been advised to try and find her limit to what she can do.

Has anyone had experience with this that they could perhaps share? We don't know how long she has had it for up to now so have no idea how much longer it will be before it gets to the point of causing lameness... anything would be nice to know.
 
Prognosis is, I think, much worse for low ringbone (just above the coronet )than high ringbone (half way up the pastern). Do you know which it is?

I think your mare is probably lame already, it's just hard to spot in the hind legs especially when they are both affected.

On bute, they can be happy for years with arthritis of the hocks and ringbone. You would probably find quite a few hunters happy hunting with it.
 
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I'm not sure whether high or low, but I'm thinking maybe low as the lump seems to be only slightly above the coronet band.
Vet said she can be worked but we need to see what she is capable of, but has also recommended building muscle to help her gain some strength.
Any ideas how we can do this without doing strenuous work, which I'm guessing would be bad?
 
Hills maybe , but they aren't good for arthritic hocks. Other than that, lots of walking then lots of walk and trot, built up gradually on level surfaces. Perhaps some pole work too, but others will advise you better than me. Good luck.
 
Muscle building is best achieved by slow work, lots of active walking on a good sound surface, using hills and encouraging the horse to seek the rein so topline gets built up, combined with an appropriate diet, if she is unfit then 2 months of slow work should really improve the muscle tone, introduce some short trots, ideally in straight lines on a forgiving surface, not roads or mud, after about 6 weeks, the more frequently you can ride the better as it takes time to get them fit so if only riding three times a week it will take longer than if you ride six times, although it probably wont take twice as long if they are getting plenty of time in a field.

It may be worth getting a physio referral as she could be compensating for the pain, having her muscles treated will help her general well being as well as enable her rehab to be as beneficial as possible and give her every chance of coming back to some level of work.
 
wedgenib said:
UPDATE:

Right guys, she has finally had the vet out and had a diagnosis...

Vet said ringbone; worst in her nearside hind but present in offside hind too. In addition to this, she has osteoarthritis elsewhere in the leg (sorry can't be specific, I wasn't actually there for the exam). She's been prescribed bute and we've been advised to try and find her limit to what she can do.

Has anyone had experience with this that they could perhaps share? We don't know how long she has had it for up to now so have no idea how much longer it will be before it gets to the point of causing lameness... anything would be nice to know.
Click to expand...

Hi wedgenib, I have a mare with ringbone and arthritis in her hocks, she is happy and sound at the moment and I hope will continue to be for many years to come. I don't jump her, don't trot on roads and don't do any strenuous schooling (tight circles etc) I don't have her on bute but do feed various joint supplements. So my experience of it is that although it is limiting, it isn't the end of the world.
 
You could try boswellia. It's in a lot of the 'bute free' type of stuff, and a lot of the supplement companies sell it. You need the stuff with a minimum of 55% boswellic acids. Very effective at reducing inflammation and pain. I get mine from Rahiiq, best value (recommended by a poster on here).
 
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