MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
Not this over produced over bred stuff you get today, that looks like it would be more at home in a freak show..
Showing off on a lap of honour!
Showing off on a lap of honour!
Video of a proper dressage horse and rider.
- Thread starter MissDeMeena
- Start date
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
Thanks for putting that link up
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
How lovely to see a horse that clearly loves his work so much. What a show off
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
I totally agree.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
haha, i've seen it, my trainer told me about it. beautiful. awe-inspiring. how relaxed and happy is that horse in his work, truly the epitome of the "happy athlete" we're all supposed to strive for.
***RANT WARNING***
please compare this in your mind with the fact that Anky had to be LED INTO THE ARENA FOR THE PRIZE-GIVING at Beijing... on a horse so on the ragged edge of control/tension that he cannot/will not even perform a correct halt in the test (which we would be ******ed for at Prelim level!!!!) and cannot be safety ridden back into the arena.
words nearly fail me.
what a treat to watch Klimke and Aherlich again. thankyou.
***RANT WARNING***
please compare this in your mind with the fact that Anky had to be LED INTO THE ARENA FOR THE PRIZE-GIVING at Beijing... on a horse so on the ragged edge of control/tension that he cannot/will not even perform a correct halt in the test (which we would be ******ed for at Prelim level!!!!) and cannot be safety ridden back into the arena.
words nearly fail me.
what a treat to watch Klimke and Aherlich again. thankyou.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for putting that link up
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
How lovely to see a horse that clearly loves his work so much. What a show off
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, i'll have to spoil it for you.. notice the date at the top, it was taken in 1984
Thanks for putting that link up
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, i'll have to spoil it for you.. notice the date at the top, it was taken in 1984
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for putting that link up
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
How lovely to see a horse that clearly loves his work so much. What a show off
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, i'll have to spoil it for you.. notice the date at the top, it was taken in 1984
[/ QUOTE ]
I did notice that
It's a shame we don't see much of that quality now *ducks before dressage people lynch me*
Still a lovely video though, even if it was taken over 20 years ago!
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for putting that link up
That has restored my faith in dressage a little bit
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, i'll have to spoil it for you.. notice the date at the top, it was taken in 1984
[/ QUOTE ]
I did notice that
It's a shame we don't see much of that quality now *ducks before dressage people lynch me*
Still a lovely video though, even if it was taken over 20 years ago!
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
haha, i've seen it, my trainer told me about it. beautiful. awe-inspiring. how relaxed and happy is that horse in his work, truly the epitome of the "happy athlete" we're all supposed to strive for.
***RANT WARNING***
please compare this in your mind with the fact that Anky had to be LED INTO THE ARENA FOR THE PRIZE-GIVING at Beijing... on a horse so on the ragged edge of control/tension that he cannot/will not even perform a correct halt in the test (which we would be ******ed for at Prelim level!!!!) and cannot be safety ridden back into the arena.
words nearly fail me.
what a treat to watch Klimke and Aherlich again. thankyou.
[/ QUOTE ]
*CC stands up and applauds these sentiments*
Will now exit this thread before I have my own rant about dressage
haha, i've seen it, my trainer told me about it. beautiful. awe-inspiring. how relaxed and happy is that horse in his work, truly the epitome of the "happy athlete" we're all supposed to strive for.
***RANT WARNING***
please compare this in your mind with the fact that Anky had to be LED INTO THE ARENA FOR THE PRIZE-GIVING at Beijing... on a horse so on the ragged edge of control/tension that he cannot/will not even perform a correct halt in the test (which we would be ******ed for at Prelim level!!!!) and cannot be safety ridden back into the arena.
words nearly fail me.
what a treat to watch Klimke and Aherlich again. thankyou.
[/ QUOTE ]
*CC stands up and applauds these sentiments*
Will now exit this thread before I have my own rant about dressage
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
No let's rant!
spookypony
Well-Known Member
This is a classic video that I've had bookmarked for ages---thanks for posting it again! That extended trot---the perfect match between the angles of front and back legs!
Klimke and Ali were my heroes as a little kid, although I was too young to catch them live (sadly the 88 Olympic dressage was not televised in Canada). Just finished re-reading Ali's biography!
For those interested, here's the link to the complete GPS test from '84. I adore how he just floats and flows through the whole thing.
Ahlerich dances.
Klimke and Ali were my heroes as a little kid, although I was too young to catch them live (sadly the 88 Olympic dressage was not televised in Canada). Just finished re-reading Ali's biography!
For those interested, here's the link to the complete GPS test from '84. I adore how he just floats and flows through the whole thing.
Ahlerich dances.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
No let's rant!
[/ QUOTE ]
stop creating arguments you!!! lol
No let's rant!
[/ QUOTE ]
stop creating arguments you!!! lol
kerilli
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
No let's rant!
[/ QUOTE ]
*rubs hands together with GLEE* just the invitation i was looking for!
wtf is it with these horses nowadays that perform extended trot the way soldiers goose-step? it's just as unnatural and looks just as stupid imho.
unfortunately it is also The Emperor's New Clothes of Dressage... while top judges award horses that do this exaggerated, incorrect trot, with the forelimb angles vastly different to those of the hindlegs, riders will strive to attain it, and breeders will strive to breed it...
*exits very fast, in 'normal' extended trot*
*trots back in*
oh, and another thing. look at his saddle. then tell me what i'm thinking, linked with the rant i've just had.... 3 gold stars for the first one to get it.
No let's rant!
[/ QUOTE ]
*rubs hands together with GLEE* just the invitation i was looking for!
wtf is it with these horses nowadays that perform extended trot the way soldiers goose-step? it's just as unnatural and looks just as stupid imho.
unfortunately it is also The Emperor's New Clothes of Dressage... while top judges award horses that do this exaggerated, incorrect trot, with the forelimb angles vastly different to those of the hindlegs, riders will strive to attain it, and breeders will strive to breed it...
*exits very fast, in 'normal' extended trot*
*trots back in*
oh, and another thing. look at his saddle. then tell me what i'm thinking, linked with the rant i've just had.... 3 gold stars for the first one to get it.
MissDeMeena
Well-Known Member
And what's more, the horse looks fit!! Not over topped/over muscled like some body builder.
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
*bugger just typed a long reply to this and lost it
*
The horses who are winning at top levels now look like spiders climbing the wall - all exaggerated front legs that aren't matched behind (can you imagine what on earth it *would* look like if the movement was matched behind
). The back end should match the front. It looks unnatural now and I don't think it's healthy. These horses don't look like they enjoy their work, in fact they look like they hate every second of it - tail swishing, grinding teeth, covered in foam because their mouths are strapped so tightly shut they can't swallow. Their muscle development is all wrong...huge, short necks and muscle that stops before the wither.
The problem, IMHO, is that when this sort of movement and horse is rewarded at the top levels, riders at the lower levels see it as an example and will attempt to copy it. The training methods used to achieve this are all wrong. That recent rollkur post in the NL2 was a prime example...full of people saying "well, the horse doesn't look like it's objecting so where's the problem?". Of course it doesn't object...you'd learn pretty quickly to be quiet and do as you were told if I had your head strapped down and hands tied behind your back. Right, I will stop now otherwise I will start on a "does the end really justify the means?" rant
The horses who are winning at top levels now look like spiders climbing the wall - all exaggerated front legs that aren't matched behind (can you imagine what on earth it *would* look like if the movement was matched behind
The problem, IMHO, is that when this sort of movement and horse is rewarded at the top levels, riders at the lower levels see it as an example and will attempt to copy it. The training methods used to achieve this are all wrong. That recent rollkur post in the NL2 was a prime example...full of people saying "well, the horse doesn't look like it's objecting so where's the problem?". Of course it doesn't object...you'd learn pretty quickly to be quiet and do as you were told if I had your head strapped down and hands tied behind your back. Right, I will stop now otherwise I will start on a "does the end really justify the means?" rant
Alibear
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
*trots back in*
oh, and another thing. look at his saddle. then tell me what i'm thinking, linked with the rant i've just had.... 3 gold stars for the first one to get it
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll play, his saddle looks flat no sign of huge blocks anywhere on it ?
*trots back in*
oh, and another thing. look at his saddle. then tell me what i'm thinking, linked with the rant i've just had.... 3 gold stars for the first one to get it
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll play, his saddle looks flat no sign of huge blocks anywhere on it ?
Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Agree
and you can all shout me down but I have the way Moorland's Totilas moves, but that's just my opinion.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
yep, Polar Bear, 1 sparkly gold star for that... and what does that have to do with the exaggeratedly huge front end movement, anyone?
Chloe_GHE
Well-Known Member
menas he actualy has the freedom to move his shoulders?...
kerilli
Well-Known Member
nope, Chloe, not at all. look at Aherlich doing CORRECT extended trot and tell me that he doesn't have the freedom...
hint: nothing to do with the horse at all really...
hint: nothing to do with the horse at all really...
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Agree
and you can all shout me down but I have the way Moorland's Totilas moves, but that's just my opinion.
[/ QUOTE ]
And I thought I was the only one who wasn't raving about him
Agree
[/ QUOTE ]
And I thought I was the only one who wasn't raving about him
Chloe_GHE
Well-Known Member
huh?.... I though it was coz his saddle was simple and not over built he had the space to create that big movement in his shoulders...uummmm if it's not that is it thhe rider?...
MontyandZoom
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting discussion for someone who is a PROPER novice when it comes to dressage (although I did score a whole 48% in my first local dressage on my one-eye donkey pony last week
.....waits for gasps of admiration).
I went to watch the dressage at Olympia and there was one woman (I think maybe Brazilian??
) on a horse that looked very different from the rest. A big gangly tb looking thing, much more like a normal horse. Her marks were atrocious!! Maybe she was just a bit crap but do you think that people get lower marks because their horse doesn't look the part even when it's way of going is correct?
PS anyone who got horse magazine this month my letter was star letter regarding dressage for dummies.
I went to watch the dressage at Olympia and there was one woman (I think maybe Brazilian??
PS anyone who got horse magazine this month my letter was star letter regarding dressage for dummies.
Nailed
Well-Known Member
Rider and horse are as one. the slightest movement of the seat, weight distribution, sift in balence can be felt. Meaning that Mr Klimke is a bloody good rider and im very jealous.
Lou x
Lou x
kerilli
Well-Known Member
what can the rider do in a saddle with huge blocks which s/he cannot do in a dressage saddle with normal flattish knee flaps (which all riders rode in in the past, you only have to look at pics/vids of the masters), and what does that have to do with the exaggerated front movement?
also, look at how Klimke sits in the saddle and how his legs hang...
also, look at how Klimke sits in the saddle and how his legs hang...
Alibear
Well-Known Member
She/He can brace against the blocks to and lock her position ?
This makes it easier to crank and yank?
This makes it easier to crank and yank?
Chloe_GHE
Well-Known Member
I would guess in a saddle with big blocks you can sort of grip tot eh saddle and bury your knee into it so you are riding the saddle not the horse. With the flatter saddle you feel the pace better and have a looser leg, your body moves in harmony with the horse and isn't stifled by a restricting saddle?... am I warm?...
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
Klimke and Aherlich were wonderful, and this video is stunning.
BUT - I totally disagree that "modern" dressage cannot equal the harmony and correctness seen here. Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes. Mistral Hjoris' extended trot. Balagur's passage. Lancet's half passes. Ravel. Max. Parzival. These horses have an elasticity and suppleness that brings something new to the sport. Plus, I don't think that you can honestly say that these horses are not correct as well as being brilliant. Aherlich was both also, but he's not the be all and end all.
I never liked the way Salinero moved but there is no doubt that Anky can ride a bloody good test (as could Klimke). But don't throw out all of today's dressage - there is some amazing work out there and some breathtaking horses.
BUT - I totally disagree that "modern" dressage cannot equal the harmony and correctness seen here. Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes. Mistral Hjoris' extended trot. Balagur's passage. Lancet's half passes. Ravel. Max. Parzival. These horses have an elasticity and suppleness that brings something new to the sport. Plus, I don't think that you can honestly say that these horses are not correct as well as being brilliant. Aherlich was both also, but he's not the be all and end all.
I never liked the way Salinero moved but there is no doubt that Anky can ride a bloody good test (as could Klimke). But don't throw out all of today's dressage - there is some amazing work out there and some breathtaking horses.
chestnut cob
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better or more correct? Brilliance is one thing but not at the expense of the horse being correct, surely? Correct is just correct but "better" is subjective and personal...
Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better or more correct? Brilliance is one thing but not at the expense of the horse being correct, surely? Correct is just correct but "better" is subjective and personal...
Nailed
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with Halfstep if Im honest.
Todays dressage horses are not all to be tarred with the same brush. Ok so the exaggerated paces are breed for, but if the power can be contained and kept soft then you end up with a bloody good horse.
What ever anyone says about anky, they cant knock the fact that shes a good rider. At teh Bejing olypmics.. I think most horses would of been pretty freaked out if im honest.
Mr Klimke can ride well, as can anky as can anyone who competes at that level.. I know I would struggle.
Lou x
Todays dressage horses are not all to be tarred with the same brush. Ok so the exaggerated paces are breed for, but if the power can be contained and kept soft then you end up with a bloody good horse.
What ever anyone says about anky, they cant knock the fact that shes a good rider. At teh Bejing olypmics.. I think most horses would of been pretty freaked out if im honest.
Mr Klimke can ride well, as can anky as can anyone who competes at that level.. I know I would struggle.
Lou x
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better or more correct? Brilliance is one thing but not at the expense of the horse being correct, surely? Correct is just correct but "better" is subjective and personal...
[/ QUOTE ]
Better in that it is both correct (according to the FEI guidelines) and more expressive.
[ QUOTE ]
Totilas might not be to your taste, but his piaffe is far better than Aherlich's was (sorry) as are his canter pirouettes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Better or more correct? Brilliance is one thing but not at the expense of the horse being correct, surely? Correct is just correct but "better" is subjective and personal...
[/ QUOTE ]
Better in that it is both correct (according to the FEI guidelines) and more expressive.
kerilli
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
She/He can brace against the blocks to and lock her position ?
This makes it easier to crank and yank?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes, exactly. it's the fact that the big knee blocks mean you can brace against them, it gives the rider extra strength to use against the horse, rather than only the strength of the back, seat and position (which can of course be considerable.)
yep, Chloe, you've got it.
2 gold stars to both of you!
btw, i wasn't criticising all modern dressage horses or riders, many are wonders of lightness, power, control and grace, i just HATE to see them goose-stepping and rewarded for it!
btw i disagree about the atmosphere, tension etc at Beijing - i bet it was no louder or wilder than Aherlich coped SO BEAUTIFULLY with. just listen to the crowd whooping in that clip.
if we are giving someone gold medals at the very very top of the sport, i think they have to be able to show a modicum of control at the prize giving, and be able to perform a nice halt.
(btw, show ponies and horses get chucked down the line for misbehaving at prize-givings, don't they???!!!)
She/He can brace against the blocks to and lock her position ?
This makes it easier to crank and yank?
[/ QUOTE ]
yes, exactly. it's the fact that the big knee blocks mean you can brace against them, it gives the rider extra strength to use against the horse, rather than only the strength of the back, seat and position (which can of course be considerable.)
yep, Chloe, you've got it.
2 gold stars to both of you!
btw, i wasn't criticising all modern dressage horses or riders, many are wonders of lightness, power, control and grace, i just HATE to see them goose-stepping and rewarded for it!
btw i disagree about the atmosphere, tension etc at Beijing - i bet it was no louder or wilder than Aherlich coped SO BEAUTIFULLY with. just listen to the crowd whooping in that clip.
if we are giving someone gold medals at the very very top of the sport, i think they have to be able to show a modicum of control at the prize giving, and be able to perform a nice halt.
(btw, show ponies and horses get chucked down the line for misbehaving at prize-givings, don't they???!!!)