Vinnie's 1st SJ report and some bitting help required please

millitiger

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So Vinnie and I headed off to Allens Hill today for their progressive clear round as our first SJ outing.

I was a little bit dubious as last time he was here was with a pro rider and he spent more time reversing and rearing than jumping and everyone was very stressed and upset :eek:
However, he has been a different horse since going to Vittoria's this spring and I was determined that I would try to copy her positive mentality and ride him very confidently.

He has been jumping grids well at home but I am struggling to contain his giant canter over single fences- I can get a smaller canter but that tends to involve killing it and creeping around in an nonadjustable canter!
From the xc lesson a few weeks ago I remembered the instruction to 'stop riding the bl**dy head and ride the canter instead!' so this week our canter has been much better and more active but I do still struggle with finding a take off point with such a huge canter.

Anyhoo... arrived at the show centre and VInnie is such a darling and so easy around the box, he really is a pleasure to take out :D
Went into the warm up and he was slightly on springs and went a bit wooden and green so I let him canter around and then trotted for a long while, keeping him really in front of my leg and carrying me forwards.

Our turn was called so decided to try and copy Vittoria and ride very positively into the arena with my lower leg so locked in and down it felt like it was stuck on my girth!
I was expecting Vinnie to be quite backwards and possibly a bit spooky 1/ as he can have a nappy streak and 2/ he is green and hasn't been out much and the course had every filler and box of flowers from a 5 mile radius included :eek:

I think what followed was a combination of me overriding and Vinnie being far more confident than I expected as we surged around without any sort of control :rolleyes:
I tried bringing him back with my weight, with my shoulders, my voice and finally with my reins but his neck was set and he was on the look out for every jumpable obstacle we could find! :eek:
As I was expecting/prepared for spooking, I do admit I drove him slightly at fence 1-4 but he was super bold and forward anyway and there was no way he was stopping!

Waited for the jumps to be put up to the next height... and waited and waited and waited! :cool: Didn't mind too much as we all had a snooze in the sun by the trailer.

Went back in at the next height and he was a bit speedy again for the first round but I took him straight back around and he was much more rideable and I was actually able to sit up and balance and ride the corners so we got to the fences in more control and the whole round felt much smoother.

Very, very pleased with my boy :D He was so bold and careful and even though he felt green, he gave me the benefit of the doubt and not once did he drop the bridle or even feel like backing off for a stride :D

We are going back there for combined training on Sunday, just not sure whether to do the 85cm or 95cm to start.

No photos of today but some of us schooling this week, it feels like we are 'clicking' together more now;

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Onto bitting, he is currently in a Hippus snaffle and a Micklem bridle with no martingale or anything.
At times he really is very strong and at his size, it doesn't feel great when you are cantering around with no control. He just seems to set his neck, he doesn't lift or drop his head really, more just runs through my hand :eek:
I'm umming and aahing about whether to make a change or just appreciate the confidence he now has and try to contain it with the current set up?

Vittoria jumped him in a waterford with hooks, a grackle and a martingale but I don't feel my hands are good enough at the moment for anything sharp- he can be very difficult in the mouth and I worry if I bit him up I will ruin his new found confidence but equally, I know he doesn't like me holding onto his head although I am making sure I give with my hands over the fence.

Thoughts please!!! :)
 

MegaBeast

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I ride my youngster in a full cheek waterford with a grackle (no martingale) and really rate it. It's not a sharp bit by any means and most horses find them very comfortable but because of the links they can't lean on them so if I was you I'd give it a try.

Great that he's feeling confident about life!
 

BroadfordQueen

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Ah, I saw you there! Me and mum saw him and said, "wow what a big horse!", didn't clock that it was you guys. He did seem a little strong in your first round (didn't see your second) but he's really lovely, well done!
I was the one on the little lazy fat dark grey connie! :)
 

millitiger

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I ride my youngster in a full cheek waterford with a grackle (no martingale) and really rate it. It's not a sharp bit by any means and most horses find them very comfortable but because of the links they can't lean on them so if I was you I'd give it a try.

Great that he's feeling confident about life!

Yes, definitely great that he is feeling more confident- as I said to the lady parked next to us, I would rather he too forward than refusing to go into the arena at all! :)

I am just so paranoid about overbitting him and ending up back where we were 6 months ago with a horse with an untrustworthy 'GO' button.
I do have a waterford so could try it on him at home and see how we are but I honestly am terrified about ruining him :(

Ah, I saw you there! Me and mum saw him and said, "wow what a big horse!", didn't clock that it was you guys. He did seem a little strong in your first round (didn't see your second) but he's really lovely, well done!
I was the one on the little lazy fat dark grey connie! :)

I thought it was you but wasn't sure so didn't come over! :)

He was very, very strong in the first round; I imagine it wasn't very pretty to watch so sorry about that! :eek:
I didn't see your round but hope you had a good outing :)
 

little_flea

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He really is a stunning horse, well done. I'm no expert but I'd say you need enough bridle/bit to have control, and I don't see any harm in using a grackle or martingale. From what I've seen there is no reason to think you're hands aren't good enough for a Waterford either.

One thing perhaps worth bearing in mind slightly is giving TOO much over a fence, you don't want to give so much that you lose contact and "drop" the horse, this can lead to them feeling insecure and rushing off after the fence which would make the issue worse. Not saying that you do this, just worth bearing in mind - watch the top riders and you'll see that they tend to maintain contact even over a big fence - obviously not a vice-like grip, just enough of a soft contact. :)
 

millitiger

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He really is a stunning horse, well done. I'm no expert but I'd say you need enough bridle/bit to have control, and I don't see any harm in using a grackle or martingale. From what I've seen there is no reason to think you're hands aren't good enough for a Waterford either.

One thing perhaps worth bearing in mind slightly is giving TOO much over a fence, you don't want to give so much that you lose contact and "drop" the horse, this can lead to them feeling insecure and rushing off after the fence which would make the issue worse. Not saying that you do this, just worth bearing in mind - watch the top riders and you'll see that they tend to maintain contact even over a big fence - obviously not a vice-like grip, just enough of a soft contact. :)

Thank you :)

I don't feel like I need the martingale but may need to get videoed on the next outing and see where his head actually is!
I am sure 99% of the contact and strongness issues lie with me and my riding and I don't want to be 'punishing' him for my poor riding by bitting him up if that makes sense??
However, I am aware that by jumping him in such a simple bridle, at the moment I am having to use more contact and rein pressure than he likes, so perhaps he would be happier with a stronger bit and a lighter rein?? Decisions!

I think I will try the waterford at home and see what we both feel like with that in- I need to stop treating him like a porcelain doll and treat him like a horse- these were the words ringing in my ears when I picked him up from Vittoria's and I think I need to take heed :eek: :)
 

vic07

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From my experience with a soft mouthed 17.2hh...

I found a vulcanite Pelham, rubber curb (loose) and double reins allow me to hold him together while being soft enough to allow him to pull on.
 

EveningStar

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He looks fantastic!
I'm no authority on anything but someone did tell me it is better to have a stronger bit where you can have softer aids than a milder bit that you really have to yank on all thet ime.
 

PorkChop

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Vinnie is looking lovely, I think you both make a nice picture :) How lovely that he is so good to take places, it makes it so much more enjoyable.

Look forward to your next report :)
 

millitiger

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From my experience with a soft mouthed 17.2hh...

I found a vulcanite Pelham, rubber curb (loose) and double reins allow me to hold him together while being soft enough to allow him to pull on.

Thank you :)

I used to have one of these but I think it is something in the category of loaned out and never seen again!
I am a bit dubious of double reins though as I am unorganised enough as a rider without having 2 lots of reins- I will definitely look into it though as I think he may find a bit with 2 seperate actions easier and less offensive so thank you.

He looks fantastic!
I'm no authority on anything but someone did tell me it is better to have a stronger bit where you can have softer aids than a milder bit that you really have to yank on all thet ime.

Thanks. I think I will try something stronger at home and see what his reaction is.
I will take him to combined training on Sunday in his usual get up and try not to ride him like his ass is on fire! :rolleyes: That might help quite a bit.

Vinnie is looking lovely, I think you both make a nice picture :) How lovely that he is so good to take places, it makes it so much more enjoyable.

Look forward to your next report :)

Thank you. He is such a darling to take out, happy to be fussed with, happy to be abandoned on the trailer while we go for a bacon sarnie, I can leave him with my mum and know they will be fine while I go to walk the course etc- makes for a much more enjoyable day :)
 
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