VIO-VET and FEDEX RANT

[Rollin]

We have lived in France since 2005 and buy many products on-line from the UK. We have enjoyed a great service e.g. last order from John Lewis, placed on Saturday delivered Monday!! Normal service is 3-4 days.

VIO VET used to use the same carrier as John Lewis, delivery 3-4 days. Then they changed to FEDEX, we wrote and complained explaining that we have NEVER had good service from FEDEX. Last three orders from VIO VET a complaint each time. AND the delivery charges are double.

Monday 11th September a mixed order to VIO-VET, including vet wrap, wormers, saddle soap, grooming stuff. We paid extra for fast shipment from the warehouse. Notified that package would be delivered on Fri. 15h or Mon 18th - it was not. We were promised next day delivery 19th FEDEX forgot to put it on the van. Wed 20th no one on the yard when they finally attempted delivery.

We were advised by VIO VET that the package could be 'left' somewhere secure.

VIO VET notified in English and in French that no one would be here after 11.00am yesterday 22nd but parcel could be left in THIS location.

AT 11.45am FEDEX attempt a delivery, no one is at home so they leave a note.

Yet another phone call to VIO VET, whose MD had already pushed off for the day at 3.15pm!! Usual nonsense about how ALL their other customers are happy and don't complain - try telling Ann Robinson that one - guaranteed to get you a handbagging on prime time TV.

THIS customer will never complain again either - I will take my business elsewhere.

So now having paid extra and facing delivery charges which are substantial it has taken VIO Vet and their new mates FEDEX two weeks to do what John Lewis do in two days....if our order finally arrives that is. My horses should have been moved to new grazing today but we cannot do that as we are still waiting for wormer.

 

[ester]

as an aside you do know that worming and moving to fresh grazing is about the worse thing you can do for the development of resistance?

 

[Rollin]

as an aside you do know that worming and moving to fresh grazing is about the worse thing you can do for the development of resistance?

Why? It is something I have done for 20 years?

 

[ester]

Because of how evolution happens. I was first advised of this having not given it much thought before, by one of the long time parasitologists at Bristol vet school for whom the strategy was a source of much frustration.

So in any population random mutations happen. If the mutations are not advantageous they tend not to proliferate so disappear again or at least are outnumbered by competition from the other types around them.

So at any one time in a mixed population of worms there may be the odd few that contain a randomly occurring mutation that conveys resistant. If you treat with a wormer they are resistant to then they survive, but they join a mixed population of eggs and larvae on the grazing and therefore continue to only make up a certain, limited % of the population and may have other disadvantages compared to the rest of that population because of the mutation.
If you treat and move onto 'clean' grazing they make up 100% off the population, which then naturally increases in numbers so that you end up with a whole lot more resistant worms than the few you started with as they have no other competition.

 

[druid]

I've never had anything but perfect service from Vio-vet, who I order from a lot but they deliver via DPD here.

Ester is correct about worming and moving to new grazing, it's the quickest way to increase wormer resistance and is something we massively discourage farmers from doing now in cattle and sheep too

 

[Rollin]

I've never had anything but perfect service from Vio-vet, who I order from a lot but they deliver via DPD here.

Ester is correct about worming and moving to new grazing, it's the quickest way to increase wormer resistance and is something we massively discourage farmers from doing now in cattle and sheep too

They did deliver with DPD, we knew the driver and the service was excellent. We have yet to have a timely delivery from FEDEX. The delivery cost is double and the service is pants. We will switch suppliers.

 

[Rollin]

Because of how evolution happens. I was first advised of this having not given it much thought before, by one of the long time parasitologists at Bristol vet school for whom the strategy was a source of much frustration.

So in any population random mutations happen. If the mutations are not advantageous they tend not to proliferate so disappear again or at least are outnumbered by competition from the other types around them.

So at any one time in a mixed population of worms there may be the odd few that contain a randomly occurring mutation that conveys resistant. If you treat with a wormer they are resistant to then they survive, but they join a mixed population of eggs and larvae on the grazing and therefore continue to only make up a certain, limited % of the population and may have other disadvantages compared to the rest of that population because of the mutation.
If you treat and move onto 'clean' grazing they make up 100% off the population, which then naturally increases in numbers so that you end up with a whole lot more resistant worms than the few you started with as they have no other competition.

So what is the solution - to overgraze? We have a hectare per horse of grazing and always have fields on rest. I have never experienced a problem with parasites, tests negative and in 10 years only one foal has ever scoured.

 

[Leo Walker]

They did deliver with DPD, we knew the driver and the service was excellent. We have yet to have a timely delivery from FEDEX. The delivery cost is double and the service is pants. We will switch suppliers.

They used DPD here last week.

 

[ester]

No, no need to over graze, The solution is to time your worming so that the worms are expelled while the horses are still on the 'dirty' paddock, I don't know off the top of my head how long that would need for each wormer but I should think a week would do it. It depends how long you tend to leave them on each paddock as to whether that is the middle of a session, or near the end. Just not worming and immediately moving.

A lot of people do get away with it, but it isn't worth the risk given that it is minimal effort to alter timings as if you end up with a resistant population you are stuck. At least one farm in mexico cannot have horses any more because of it and there are certainly sheep farms in this country (Devon iirc) that can have no sheep on them. That and it doesn't help everyone else once a resitant population is established as it tends to creep so I do it for the good of the whole resistance situation really.

Ah I remembered his name, I was having a brain fart earlier Dr Gerald Coles . He also suggested everyone should check a new purchase for ivermectin resistant worms and not keep it if it had them (see point above about creeping).

 

[Rollin]

No, no need to over graze, The solution is to time your worming so that the worms are expelled while the horses are still on the 'dirty' paddock, I don't know off the top of my head how long that would need for each wormer but I should think a week would do it. It depends how long you tend to leave them on each paddock as to whether that is the middle of a session, or near the end. Just not worming and immediately moving.

A lot of people do get away with it, but it isn't worth the risk given that it is minimal effort to alter timings as if you end up with a resistant population you are stuck. At least one farm in mexico cannot have horses any more because of it and there are certainly sheep farms in this country (Devon iirc) that can have no sheep on them. That and it doesn't help everyone else once a resitant population is established as it tends to creep so I do it for the good of the whole resistance situation really.

Ah I remembered his name, I was having a brain fart earlier Dr Gerald Coles . He also suggested everyone should check a new purchase for ivermectin resistant worms and not keep it if it had them (see point above about creeping).

That is what I do Ester. Wormer should have been here a week ago, I am waiting to move everyone so we can harrow, top, spray grazed fields. After their winter worming they will move onto our hay field for 6 weeks. Hay was cut in early June and this field is only grazed in December/January.

 

[ester]

So you don't worm and move to fresh grazing then, excellent Didn't need the lengthy descriptions!