Visit to Catherston Stud and pic of Deanes San Ciro Hit

eventrider23

eventrider23

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We went up to Catherston on Sunday to have another look at Deanes San Ciro Hit aka Wilks (ok and also to go and visit my soon to be new puppy that is up with my friend who works there), and so i thought I would post some of the pics on here as I know a couple of people were expressing interest in going up to the stud to see some of the stallions and I know it's not easy to find pics of the Catherston horses as their website is sooo awful.

We mainly went to have another look at 'Wilks' with the view of putting him to one or both of our girls. We'd seen him in his box a few weeks ago but not out as it was 9 pm at that time and pouring with rain. This time we had a much better look, being able to see him trotted up and on the lunge and I have to say I am VERY impressed and he is currently sitting at the top of the list for one of the girls and very near the top for the other. For eventing breeders I have to say I thinkg he is a definite 'one to watch' in the UK, and is already being used by several big breeders, including Preci Spark, owner's of the Wexford Lady and most of the T horses
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Anyway, this lad is truly awesome and is a really good example of crossing the dressage stallions with the TB/TBx's to produce quality blooded eventers. His conformation is beautiful and he has the most awesome front end you are likely to see on a horse. We also had the opportunity to have a look at his now very old mum out in the field, his weanling half brother, as well as one of his foal's that is out of a pony mare and I have to say that if if it is quality you are looking to ad to your mare, whether in type or movement then he is a good bet!

Here are a couple pics (apologies for the pawing - there were foals behind the hedge and he was desperate to go and say hello)
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He looks slightly 'over' at the knee in this pic but I assure you that he isn't - he was jittering and quivering in the cold and excitement and the pic caught his leg in mid 'jitter':
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Look at that shouldder!!!
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Competition wise, he is set to be out eventing next season with Sam Griffiths however Lizzie is currently competing at dressage very successfully, with him winning his first 2 tests - both of which were Advanced Medium. He won a Medium the day before we say him and qualified for all the champs now. he is also almost established with piaffe, etc and so is set to be moving up the grades soon.

Hope you guys like!
 
Brilliant thank you very much for putting up these pics, I didnt have any decent pics of him to show people( why oh why dont cathersont put him on their website?!) and as I mentioned before, my mare is in foal to him for 2009 ( unfortunately she's out on loan so the foal wont be mine
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) I do love Wilf he is such a cracker!

So cant wait to see what she produces- this pic was taken in October, foal is going to be a whopper judging by the size she is already- cannot wait to see what he/she is like!

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Ooh - can't wait to see pics of the foal Ouija Board! How is the mare bred? I'm glad you approve of this post as, as you said, there are just no decent non-ridden pics of him to be found anywhere. There IS a nice video of him at Willesley stallion parade on YouTube tho.

Tigers_Eye - i believe that 2007 was his first at stud as he was only bought by Catherston a couple years ago - prior to that I believe he was running out wild on the Welsh hills. He is graded BWBS and was the champion of his grading as well.

Unfortunately, as O_B says the Catherston website is crap and they rarely advertise their stallion properly. I think they rely instead on reputation. As a result he hasn't had the amount of recognition as yet as a stallion, although as I said already, I believe a lot of the top eventing breeders have foal's due to him next year.

Ooh - meant to say that it must be the angle of the photos as his shoulder is anything but upright....he's got one the most textbook perfect front ends I've seen in a long time.
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I agree with you about his shoulder ER23! He has a fabolous front end, and also his limbs and feet are super. Jenny told me that his feet are so good that he did his first cross country schooling session barefoot?!
Do hope he grows into his own when he's out eventing with Sam next year.

This is my mare's pedigree, she is race-bred, but High Tension her sire has been used on some advanced event mares as he has a lot of eventing lines there. Fappiano was also grandsire of a lot of top eventers like Becky Holders Courageous Comet and Magnus's Keymaster. Also the Makbul/Vulgan Slave line has produced eventers too.

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=F5GRtq&d=hierarchy2
 
O_B - Interesting to see the Fairy King/Sadler's Wells link there in the pedigree as well. The Fairy King side is just not nearly so prevalant as the SW ones are! Can't wait to see baby!
We are contemplating using either the Beachtime mare on him, who had the El Thuder foal this year or the Able Albert mare who is currently in foal to Amiro Z. For this mare though we want it to be the perfectly suited stallion as her first foal won the PAVO yearling champs this year.
 
Hi results are however down to the fact that Sam only ever rode him at the events and so his results aren't a testament to his ability and according to Sam he gives a fantastic feel XC, it is just that they need to work on his concentration as he is looking all about the place at distractions, hence Lizzie is working on the dressage this winter, etc. and he is being used for the Pro Rider's Seminar that is coming up soon as a demo/guinea pig horse, etc etc.

Next season I believe he is moving to Sam's for the season and so hopefully will cement his results. From a competition POV, whilst he hasn't yet proved it eventing, he certainly is doing the job out BD with his recent wins. Plus the Saunter/Winsome Adante link in his pedigree make him an attractive young horse to watch. At the end of the day, he could concentrate on a pure dressage career and still be a good event sire.
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Lots of horses only go to the rider for the event.
I appreciate he's full of testosterone so concentration isnt easy anyway but there are some super event sires out there who are totally focused on their job and who jump no matter what (and have done from their very first seasons)
 
But when you think home is Catherston then his performance record should be better. My own Weston Justice did a lot of his work from home and we have nothing like the facilities. He might be good but it is only on his looks at the moment. Im not a Sandro Hit fan either I think there are much better warmblood lines to click into.
 
Valid points, I agree that, in most cases, a good horse will do the job no matter what, you put the jump in front of them and they just have a 100% desire to get to the other side of the fence no matter what the circumstances, but I would give the horse another event season to prove himself before writing him off- because even horses like Miners Frolic were terrible in their first season eventing!
 
Not an event person myself so I've never looked up his results, but I have to say I saw the horse myself at a demo earlier in the year. I was very very taken with him, and thought he had a superb genuine attitude, if a little cheeky - but then I like horses to have a little bit of that about them, I think if they have more of a brain they then become a lot more on side once you channel the brain in the right way and will try a lot more for you than a 'perfect' horse.
Interested in using him at some point in the future on an event mare I have.
 
I have pictures of him as a foal and I can tell you he was lovely then and I am a SH sceptic (especially to breed an eventer). As a foal SC did not show any signs of having the usual SH hind end issues and if they keep his focus he will have a good future I am sure of it. I haven't seen any foals but if he stamps his stock I would put mares in foal to him before his career gets going he is only 6 after all.
 
This is my first post but I would like to point out that I have read this forum for several months and most of the posts and replies have the same people time and time again.

The stallion in question IMO is too upright through the shoulder although this does match his Hoof-Pastern Axis. He may have good feet but everything above has to be correct as well. In the photos he also looks lacking through the hind quarters and has little depth of girth. Saying all this does not mean that he well not be a superstar in years to come, but is he the "sire of the future".

When did mare owners move away from conformationally correct stallions which have for years produced our event horses in GB and Ireland to stallions which are out there eventing - just because a certain stallion competes successfully doesnt automatically mean that his progeny will and the opposite will also apply in that a stallion who hasnt competed at high level, or not competed at all could easily produce top class progeny.

As a breeder I am always looking for the next superstar to use on my mares - but correctness of type will outway performance on every occasion.
 
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This is my first post but I would like to point out that I have read this forum for several months and most of the posts and replies have the same people time and time again.


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I don't come in here very often so maybe you speak a different language,
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but I don't understand what you mean by this?
 
I have to disagree onlooker, it might well be the angle of the photos and I am by no means saying he is 'perfect' however conformationally this stallion is exquisite. This fact is born out by the fact that he was not only the Champion of his stallion grading, receiveing top conformation marks, but he was also the Champion of the BEF futurity SEIB sponsored Young Dressage Horse Evaluation in 2006 and I believe also the overall Reserve Champion and so I would have to say that if he had 'major' conformational issues, that he would never have scored as highly as he has done.

From my own viewpoint I myself have a degree in equien science and biomechanics and on looking at this horse I would have to say that conformationally he is beautiful.

On the replies POV, I would have to say that whilst yes there are a lot of replies made by the same people, there are also many replies made by newcomers, however the site is frequented by a lot of stud owners and pro/semi pro horse people and so a lot of the time a lot of the 'opinon'/info posts are replied by these people, adding their experiences and industrial experienec to the fray.

Welcome to the forum btw.
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I am new and one thing I like about this forum is yes there are a lot of regulars but if you are new you're comments are just as well recieved and discussed as the old timers!!!

Secondly It is hard enough to discuss angulation on aphotograph as it is but it is impossible when a photograph is not taken squarely with the horse and the horse is not stood perfectly straight looking forward, not on an angle. Having done a thesis on shoulder angulations in relation to pastern angles believe me it is not that simple and easy to see. I think the photograph was more to just update us on how he was looking in general etc
 
I keep my baby (7month old) at Catherston as i live just down the road. If anyone would like any opinions on their service please PM me.

Wilf is a lovely horse, very nice tempremant but i personally dont like his back end - i know thats not very technical of me but its just personal opinions.
 
Ooh Tempi is your baby the one in the siggie...if so I LOVED the look of him/her when I went round to look at the babies on Sunday...if it's the one I think it is.
 
It is certainly not in doubt that he is looking exceptional for the time of the year as most stallions do when in work and as he is being professionally produced you would expect nothing less. He is such a rewarding colour to turnout and is obviously fairly fit.

The fact that he is a graded stallion and was champion is certainly recommendation for those breeders interested to go and see this horse in the flesh. However I have looked at the photos again and still believe in my opinion he looks upright, but as the angle of his shoulder pasten and hoof all look similar it will most probably never cause him a problem. He does look recently shod and he does look to have a fair bit of heal. Looks like I will have to get off my a*** and go and have a look!

I have a mare with similar angulation, she has competed 5 season, is a grade A and never had a day unsound!

I fully agree that it is good to have regulars that contribute to the forum as it certainly gives free advice to those with less experience. Long may you all continue.
 
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he is also almost established with piaffe, etc and so is set to be moving up the grades soon.

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Hmm, looking at him (and i know photos can be VERY deceptive), I have no idea how he can be doing piaffe. He has very weak looking quarters and no top line at all. Seeing as piaffe is the ultimate in collection, requiring a lot of weight to be transferred to the quarters, i just don't see how he is doing a proper piaffe, unless he is just jogging on the spot.

Anyway, that aside, he seems to be attracting a lot of owners who know a lot more than me and he is a fantastic colour with a gorgeous shine to him so i will hide under the hedge again.

bye!
 
Tango Curly - I agree with what you say about the look of his hind end however, seeing as his owner/trainer/riders aew Jennie LC and Lizzie Muray then I'm not going to argue...
 
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