VW Passat tow a Rice Beaufort Popular

M

mustardsmum

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 December 2012
Messages
624
Location
South West
Visit site
Hi

Does anyone out there (thinking ROG in particular?!) know anything about Rice Beaufort Popular trailers? I have bought one off a friend, its old and in need of a total refurburbishment. Luckily, my Dad is an old fashioned mechanic so has a project for the summer :)... However, I wondered (before we start working on replacing floor etc) whether my VW Passat will be able to pull this trailer with a 14.2hh New Forest pony. The trailer has a sticker on the tow bar with 750kg - is this the weight of the trailer? I think the trailer is 20+ years old but would love to hear from anyone who knows anything about these trailers! Especially where to get parts :o

Many thanks for any help/advice and virtual pints all round :D
 
mustardsmum said:
Hi

Does anyone out there (thinking ROG in particular?!) know anything about Rice Beaufort Popular trailers? I have bought one off a friend, its old and in need of a total refurburbishment. Luckily, my Dad is an old fashioned mechanic so has a project for the summer :)... However, I wondered (before we start working on replacing floor etc) whether my VW Passat will be able to pull this trailer with a 14.2hh New Forest pony. The trailer has a sticker on the tow bar with 750kg - is this the weight of the trailer? I think the trailer is 20+ years old but would love to hear from anyone who knows anything about these trailers! Especially where to get parts :o

Many thanks for any help/advice and virtual pints all round :D
Click to expand...
750 is likely to be the unladen weight

WHICH MODEL OF PASSAT FROM THIS LIST IS IT ?
 
Hi ROG

Its a Passat estate, 2006 SE TDI 2 litre engine and on the registration certificate it says is max braked weight is 1800kg and unbraked is 750kg? (not that this means much to me!!). So, does this mean my trailer is ok to pull and by the time I add a 400kg pony I will still be with the correct weight limit?

Are these trailers good to tow? Or would I be better selling for scrap and getting something else?! I would add my dad is a fully qualified mechanic and is more than capable of getting brakes etc all sorted out. Infact (and I say this quietly!!) he is more familiar with older style mechanics ;)

many thanks for your help!
 
mustardsmum said:
Hi ROG

Its a Passat estate, 2006 SE TDI 2 litre engine and on the registration certificate it says is max braked weight is 1800kg and unbraked is 750kg? (not that this means much to me!!). So, does this mean my trailer is ok to pull and by the time I add a 400kg pony I will still be with the correct weight limit?

Are these trailers good to tow? Or would I be better selling for scrap and getting something else?! I would add my dad is a fully qualified mechanic and is more than capable of getting brakes etc all sorted out. Infact (and I say this quietly!!) he is more familiar with older style mechanics ;)

many thanks for your help!
Click to expand...
On a B+E licence you can have empty trailer and its load to a max of 1800 kgs as long as the trailer has a MAM of at least 1800 and is fitted with brakes

Trailers under 750 kgs MAM do not require brakes = unbraked

How well it performs when towing I have no idea but most horse trailers are designed to be ok
 
Thanks ROG, so as the weight of pony and trailer is only going to be about 1250kg, I might fit another 350 pony in there too as my max braked weight on the car is 1800! One final question where do I find out the MAM for my trailer? Have looked online and so far draw a blank for this trailer, I assume because its so old.

Also, I passed my test in 1988 and someone has told me I need to take a trailer test - but I am not sure I need to?!

Many thanks :)
 
mustardsmum said:
Also, I passed my test in 1988 and someone has told me I need to take a trailer test - but I am not sure I need to?!

Many thanks :)
Click to expand...

Assuming that's not a typo, nope, you don't need to, will state B+E on your licence, you're also able to drive trucks up to 7.5tonne. The Law changed in 1997.
 
mustardsmum said:
Thanks ROG, so as the weight of pony and trailer is only going to be about 1250kg, I might fit another 350 pony in there too as my max braked weight on the car is 1800! One final question where do I find out the MAM for my trailer? Have looked online and so far draw a blank for this trailer, I assume because its so old.

Also, I passed my test in 1988 and someone has told me I need to take a trailer test - but I am not sure I need to?!

Many thanks :)
Click to expand...
If you passed car test before 1997 you will have B+E

The MAM is a plate usually silver in colour somewhere on the trailer - commonly on the A frame

If no plate then the total of the tyre load ratings will be used as the MAM but a limit of 3500 kg applies if they add up to more than that
 
TommisMum said:
Beaufort pop was 2600kg gross capacity so no not legally fully laden.
Click to expand...

Ah, a bit confused now! So if my trailer weighs 750kg, its gross capacity (i.e a fully laden equalling box with horses) is 2600kg (thats its MAM). If however I only put a pony weighing 400kg (i.e my 14.1hh Forrester) in the trailer, am I right that the weight of trailer and horses will be 1350kg. So, this is under the braked towing limit of 1800kg limit of my passat, so would this be legal ? Presumably as long as my trailer weight doesnt go over 2600kg, thats fine but in reality because my car is limited I can only load to 1800kg?

If the gross weight goes over 1800kg, I would not be legal and would need a bigger vehicle. Likewise, I guess if I put my other pony in (small, round 350kg Forester), I would be getting very close to the max braked weight I can tow with the car?

Thanks for all your replies and sorry if I am beginning to sound a bit slow here! :o Just want to be certain I am not about to tow my ponies dangerously!

And yes, unfortunately it was some time before 1997 I passed my test!! A kind friend has given me lifts before to events, but the offer of a gift of a an old trailer seemed a good idea.... at the time!!! Luckily for me, my dad enjoys doing these things up in his retirement with his grandson helping out! :D
 
Yes it's legal as long as you're within towing limit of car ie trailer and load less than 1800kg. I tow with a passat similar spec to yours and they tow very well.
 
The Beaufort pop will weigh a 1000kg minimum not 750 kg.
There were 2 versions is it painted all one colour or has it got white body panels and a green roof/nose cone.
The all painted one is slightly lighter. The all painted one could date back as far as the 70s and the green/white one was made mid90s.

The law states that the towing vehicle should have a towing capacity equal to or in excess of the gross capacity. As said the MAM/Gross capacity is 2600kg. So your car is too small.
(My OH used to sell these)
 
Green and white (green body panels and white roof), front unload, with wood gates and lots of rust and currently brown and white as paint has a strange brown bloom where it has left out in all weathers! But a bit of elbow grease will get it back to green :rolleyes:. So what would the 750kg be referring to on the a-frame?

Muchly confused about the gross towing weight! Does this mean that regardless of what I have in the trailer (even if its empty) I still need a vehicle capable of towing the full gross capacity (ie. 2600kg). Oh dear. This doesn't look good for the passat.....

Unfortunately, someone reversed out of a drive way into my passat as I was driving along the road two days ago, and totalled the side of it. So pulling with a passat might not be in the equation :( But would be useful to understand the laws of towing - I apologise if I appear to be missing the point somewhere about gross weights, MAM's (are they the same thing?!?) and maximum towing weights! But thanks to all for continuing to try and help me! :o
 
Last edited:
Now we're intrigued
Are the sides flat like Ifor or profiled (corrugated)?
The Beaufort pop had a fibreglass nose cone and white glasonite body panels when it left the factory. No wooden gates.
If its a Beaufort it'll be 66" wide.
If they aren't profiled it may not be a Rice .. any photos? it is not unheard of for people to put the Rice badge on other brands...
hence the MAM being too light.

Other than the Eventer which was rear unload 2 pony we can't think of any Rice trailer near the 750 weight (eventer was 610kg and made 80s - 90s)

As to the towing questions legally your vehicle needs to be able to tow MAM - Maxiumum Authorised Mass aka Gross Capacity aka Maximum Towing weight ... they mean the same.
People do tow with vehicles that have too low a towing capacity believing that as their laden weight - )ie unladen weight of the trailer plus the horse ) is less than the towing capacity of their vehicle they are ok. But this is not the case as its the Maximum Authorised Mass that counts.
Is that any clearer?
 
TommisMum said:
Now we're intrigued
Are the sides flat like Ifor or profiled (corrugated)?
The Beaufort pop had a fibreglass nose cone and white glasonite body panels when it left the factory. No wooden gates.
If its a Beaufort it'll be 66" wide.
If they aren't profiled it may not be a Rice .. any photos? it is not unheard of for people to put the Rice badge on other brands...
hence the MAM being too light.

Other than the Eventer which was rear unload 2 pony we can't think of any Rice trailer near the 750 weight (eventer was 610kg and made 80s - 90s)

As to the towing questions legally your vehicle needs to be able to tow MAM - Maxiumum Authorised Mass aka Gross Capacity aka Maximum Towing weight ... they mean the same.
People do tow with vehicles that have too low a towing capacity believing that as their laden weight - )ie unladen weight of the trailer plus the horse ) is less than the towing capacity of their vehicle they are ok. But this is not the case as its the Maximum Authorised Mass that counts.
Is that any clearer?
Click to expand...

Thanks, the bit about the weight is much clearer and so I guess my poor old passat (should it be rebuilt) will not be towing much more than a small car trailer! I was working on trailer + pony as being the weight I needed to tow, not MAM :( Luckily I have access to my dads 4x4 (disco) so will use that instead but a shame - bought the passat as thought that would tow when we were just off to PC with small pony and it would be cheap to run for all the other everyday stuff instead of a 4x4 :(

In terms of the trailer itself, all the sides are all corrugated, the floor looks pretty original (thick wooden planks, now in need of replacing) and the roof is cream aluminium. It has original Rice stickers (Beaufort Popular) and also the horseshoe/rice badge on the front and back. The ramps are lined with wood and hessian. Will take some pictures and post tomorrow evening and pm you!

Many thanks for you input on this - this is quite intriguing as it might be critical in getting spares. TBH when I have looked online, haven't really seen anything that looks like mine.....
 
The info above is wrong! The car does not have to be able to tow the MAM of the trailer for the outfit to be legal. But the total weight of the car plus trailer plus load must be less than the gross train weight of the car.
 
TommisMum said:
The law states that the towing vehicle should have a towing capacity equal to or in excess of the gross capacity. As said the MAM/Gross capacity is 2600kg. So your car is too small.
(My OH used to sell these)
Click to expand...
What a load of rubbish !!

I am going to do what I did some time ago to dispel this internet myth and that is to challenge your statement like this ...

Please post where or link to the law that backs up your statement


I can tell you now that there is not one

TommisMum said:
As to the towing questions legally your vehicle needs to be able to tow MAM - Maxiumum Authorised Mass aka Gross Capacity aka Maximum Towing weight ... they mean the same.
Click to expand...
A little bit of educating ....
MAM (or GVW) means the maximum the trailer or vehicle can be when fully loaded
Towing capacity means the maximum actual weight that can be towed
Each has a completely different meaning because one is a legal max weight limit and the other is a max actual weight limit


Example of a legal set up under B+E towing rules ...
Vehicle
GVW 2200
GTW 4000
Kerb 1650
Towing capacity 1800

Trailer
unladen 1000
MAM 2600

Max load for trailer = 800


Please be 100% before stating something as a fact especially where legalities are concerned

No problem in saying you think this or that is legal or not because everyone is entitled to an opinion
 
Last edited:
Thanks ROG for your reply - I was a bit worried there as I know many people who tow trailers with just one pony in, with estates (often Passats, hence our reason for buying) and was really surprised that I couldn't tow with it.

SO, finally, to clarify....

Pony weighs 400kg, trailer weights 1000kg, trailer MAM 2600kg, car max braked tow weight can be up to (but not over...) 1800kg therefore pony and trailer together can be towed by Passat.... :D

Thanks to everyone's replies, hopefully other potential estate car drivers confused about the trailer towing legalities will find the comments on here useful!

:)
 
mustardsmum said:
SO, finally, to clarify....

Pony weighs 400kg, trailer weights 1000kg, trailer MAM 2600kg, car max braked tow weight can be up to (but not over...) 1800kg therefore pony and trailer together can be towed by Passat.... :D
Click to expand...
Clarified correctly with 400 kgs to spare :D
 
With the right trailer this vehicle could be used for B licence towing

Volkswagen Passat Estate SE 2.0 TDI BlueMotion Technology DSG
Gross Weight 2210 kg
Kerb Weight 1601 kg
Towing Limit (braked) 1800 kg

Trailer with an unladen weight of 800 kgs and a (down)plated MAM of 1290 with a horse about 450 kgs plus a few bits
 
Rather rude ROG but as I can't pm you I will reply

The information I posted was given to us by our local VOSA rep ... however we have since challenged him and you are correct the law on legal weight thresholds relates to the actual not the potential as referenced in the VOSA guidelines: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox Guide low res.pdf

For example, a towing vehicle with a plated
gross weight of 3 tonnes and a plated train
weight of 5 tonnes, could feasibly tow a
trailer with a maximum gross weight of 3.5
tonnes. However, if both the vehicle and
trailer in the combination were loaded to their
respective maximum gross weights, then the
combination’s maximum train weight would be
exceeded by 1.5 tonnes. It’s the actual weight
of the vehicle and load which is important in
determining a vehicle’s compliance with
legal weight thresholds, not the potential
carrying capacity.

However the words I used: MAM, Gross Capacity and Maximum Towing weight when used in reference to a Trailer are the same within the Trailer/horsebox dealer/manufacturer sector.

I did not use the term Towing Capacity ....which relates to the towing vehicle not the trailer....
 
TommisMum said:
Rather rude ROG but as I can't pm you I will reply

The information I posted was given to us by our local VOSA rep ... however we have since challenged him and you are correct the law on legal weight thresholds relates to the actual not the potential as referenced in the VOSA guidelines: http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/Horsebox Guide low res.pdf

For example, a towing vehicle with a plated
gross weight of 3 tonnes and a plated train
weight of 5 tonnes, could feasibly tow a
trailer with a maximum gross weight of 3.5
tonnes. However, if both the vehicle and
trailer in the combination were loaded to their
respective maximum gross weights, then the
combination’s maximum train weight would be
exceeded by 1.5 tonnes. It’s the actual weight
of the vehicle and load which is important in
determining a vehicle’s compliance with
legal weight thresholds, not the potential
carrying capacity.

However the words I used: MAM, Gross Capacity and Maximum Towing weight when used in reference to a Trailer are the same within the Trailer/horsebox dealer/manufacturer sector.

I did not use the term Towing Capacity ....which relates to the towing vehicle not the trailer....
Click to expand...
APOLOGIES IF I CAME ACROSS AS RUDE - IT WAS NOT MY INTENTION - I BLAME MY PULLED SHOULDER PAIN !!

What do you take the phrase max towing weight to mean ?

The VOSA statement is exactly what I stated but you have stated that a car with a 1800 towing capacity cannot tow a trailer with a 2600 MAM which is incorrect - I and that VOSA statement confirms it and I see that you have now also agreed
 
Last edited:
I think the short answer here is that a VW Passat with a towing capacity of 1800kg CAN tow a trailer that weighs 750kg and two ponies weighing 750kg between them.

Get the trailer to a weighbridge when you're done and you'll know for sure what you can put in it.

If TommisMum is to be believed, I'd not be able to tow with my Shogun as the towing capacity is 2500kg and the gross weight of an Ifor Williams 511 is 2700kg. That may be the case for post-97 licenceholders, but we're not.
 
Have posted some pictures in my gallery of the trailer, most definitely a Rice Popular!

Just hope we can get it back on the road but there is a bit of work to be done ;)
 
It is a Rice Pop - made between 1968 and 1974!

9tails - we were misinformed by VOSA that it was potential weight that set the limit not actual. however the weight is 1000kg not 750kg.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top