Warning signs. Legal or illegal?

Luci07

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This has come up on my FB feed with reference to dogs. Some time ago, after an unsucessul attempt at breaking into our tack room, the police told the owner, that had her horse attacked the thieves (they tried to break into the tack room via his stable) she would have been liable as there was no warning in place and said horse was a git in his box. Just seen on my feed that if you have a "beware of the dog/horse/irate house owner" you are admitting liability if someone is attacked while trespassing.

So which is the truth? Legal bods..who knows?
 

Embo

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I just think it's disgusting that you can't protect your own property, these days.

Warn a thief that they may get injured whilst trying to rob you? What is wrong with the world!?
 

popsdosh

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Beware is fine but you should never put danger as this implies that you admit the horse could be dangerous. Frankly the police are talking rubbish as you have no reason to warn somebody about an animal that is not normally a danger . There are certain animals you do need to warn about ie bulls etc .
 

LeannePip

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the world has truly gone mad!

An old manager of mine lived directly next to the boundary of a school and the kids used to climb into her garden to get out - they were damaging her trellace (sp?)/ plants and also being a single older woman it made her very uncomfortable that there were people wandering around her property when she wasn't there. The police were very un helpful and the school weren't interested, when she called the council they said there wasn't alot they could do, but she couldn't put those bird spikes along the top of her fence/ use anti climb paint or similar as if the kids damaged themself or their clothing whilst they were climbing over she would be liable for it!

she put CCTV up in the end put of course had to put signs up warning the trespassers that they were on camera and planted some prickly bushes at the bottom of the fence. The school eventually put a secondary fence on their side however this just made it even easier for them to climb over.
 

Kezzabell2

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That's a joke. My horse is brilliant in his stable. But if a stranger went in and started making a lot of.noise trying to get through to something on the other side. I'm pretty sure it would upset him and he might react out of character
 

Dry Rot

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A landowner/occupier has a duty of care to anyone entering their land, even a burglar (so man traps are out!).

A sign stating "Beware of the Dog" can infer that the dog is dangerous, otherwise why the warning? If you keep a dangerous dog and it bites someone (yes, even a burglar) you could be liable.

The cops are not experts in the law. That's why we have courts and lawyers. I've discussed this with my solicitor as I used to keep quite a large kennels. He advised as above on the warning sign but said something on the line of "Loose Dogs" didn't admit anything and was OK. So be careful out there.
 

Toby_Zaphod

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This has come up on my FB feed with reference to dogs. Some time ago, after an unsucessul attempt at breaking into our tack room, the police told the owner, that had her horse attacked the thieves (they tried to break into the tack room via his stable) she would have been liable as there was no warning in place and said horse was a git in his box. Just seen on my feed that if you have a "beware of the dog/horse/irate house owner" you are admitting liability if someone is attacked while trespassing.

So which is the truth? Legal bods..who knows?
The police have definately given you wrong advice!!! I don't know where they did up these ridiculous ideas & regurgitate them to the public. Warning signs & places of safety i.e. where an intruder can get escape from a a guard dog ONLY refer to guard dogs, not horses, geese etc. This legislation was bought in years ago following several children getting savaged in junk yards qwhen they climbed in to play. The owners left dangerous dogs to patrol the yards without any control or supervisiuon & once in the premises there was no way to escape the vicious dogs, no place of safety. There are a number of things owners of premises must do to comply with the law if leaving guard dogs unsupervised on premises.

If a horse is secure in his stable & someone comes onto the yard & enters a stable there without permission & gets injured then that is their problem. They could try & start legal action however in those circumstances no solicitor would take it on as it would be unwinable. I know there have been numerous stupid cases in America that people have won but that is in America & not here so should be dismissed.
 

stilltrying

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I work at an hotel - we were asked by our insurers to put up a sign on an old roof of an outbuilding warning trespassers that the roof was unsafe...in case they fell through and claimed against us while trying to break in!!!! True story!
 

OWLIE185

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We no longer use guard dogs but now use ostriches as we find that most intruders will not come prepared for ostriches. Ostriches are a far superior deterrent as not only do they have the speed to chase intruders off the premises but they just peck at them until they leave the premises.
 
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I'm sorry but that is potentially the STUPIDEST thing I have heard! Even when you are the horse's owner you can get hurt (referring to that incident a couple of weeks ago with the lady who was clipping), so if anything a person a horse doesn't know comes into it's stable when (I'm guessing) it's dark it's going to scare the poor thing. Plus with them being flight animals, they can't run away in a stable so one of their only ways to react could be to kick out.

Next thing you'll be advised to put a sign up to tell them where everything is, "Intruders welcome! Tack room is through the stable, horse may kick so turn the lights on first so he can see you. Saddles are on the right, bridles on the left, oh and if you want a cup of tea while you're there the kettle and tea bags are in the cupboard :) "
 

indiat

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We were once broken into when we owned three staffies. Staffies are not really great guard dogs as they let an intruder in but don't let them out. My dad came home to find the burglar sitting on the washing machine with the dogs surrounding him. One of them had managed to get a nip in before he had climbed to safety and he was threatening to sue us. The police said he might have had a case as we had nothing up to warn we had dogs. However, we were advised that a warning sign does not need to say 'danger' or 'warning' to be considered one, we just had to indicate there were dogs on the premises. So we put a window sticker up saying "North Easter Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club" with a pic of a staffie and apparently, that was taken as a warning sign. The burglar DID try to sue us but the police swore blind the sticker was up in the window when he broke in. They are as tired of this stuff as we are.

Owlie185, do you live in the UK? We are hoping to buy our own yard and I am worried about security and trespassers. Did you buy your birds here and are they easy to look after?
 

Luci07

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We were once broken into when we owned three staffies. Staffies are not really great guard dogs as they let an intruder in but don't let them out. My dad came home to find the burglar sitting on the washing machine with the dogs surrounding him. One of them had managed to get a nip in before he had climbed to safety and he was threatening to sue us. The police said he might have had a case as we had nothing up to warn we had dogs. However, we were advised that a warning sign does not need to say 'danger' or 'warning' to be considered one, we just had to indicate there were dogs on the premises. So we put a window sticker up saying "North Easter Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club" with a pic of a staffie and apparently, that was taken as a warning sign. The burglar DID try to sue us but the police swore blind the sticker was up in the window when he broke in. They are as tired of this stuff as we are?
Top post...3 staffords....I also have staffords who are very vocal when anyone comes near to the house. I had to complete a recent crime survey. Said interviewer did write down that my additionial security measures were 4 noisy staffords and suggested that not many people would contemplate entering my house if I wasn't there!
 

indiat

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Staffies are fab! I have Manchester terriers now and they are very vocal as well, bay like hounds and sound much bigger than they are. I would like to get another staffie but they have such bad press I didn't want my girls to get abuse when walking them. Currently living in the centre of Bath where locals freak out over anything moving quickly and not being carried in a hand bag and I get enough abuse over the mannies. Such as "Put your doberman on the lead (in a part of the park where dogs are allowed off the lead), people bring children in here you know!"
 

Thriller

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Staffies are fab! I have Manchester terriers now and they are very vocal as well, bay like hounds and sound much bigger than they are. I would like to get another staffie but they have such bad press I didn't want my girls to get abuse when walking them. Currently living in the centre of Bath where locals freak out over anything moving quickly and not being carried in a hand bag and I get enough abuse over the mannies. Such as "Put your doberman on the lead (in a part of the park where dogs are allowed off the lead), people bring children in here you know!"
Its so odd how different places are. I've walked my dog about town and usually get mobbed with little gangs of 12yos wanting to snuggle her cause shes a "pit bull" and then the old posh crowd goign "thats a mightly looking dog" i was at the beach once and two old ladies called her over to stroke her cause they knew they had bad press but since she was off lead they assumed she must be nice so they wanted to get experience with one.

I have to say i have literally never had any bad encounters with my girl. Even when she was going all out at two labs, the owner was like "awww look at her shes being protective cause my two big bruisers are potentially threatening"

One man did pick up his pappillion when i walked past but tbh i was glad he did. I would not have wanted to explain that staffies are a good dog if shed took a dislike to that particular dog lol

 

indiat

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Oh, she is lovely! I find people in Bath are very hostile to dogs, so much so that I have given up going to our local park. Lots of people are nice but enough are so horrible that it makes me very tense, which puts my male dog on edge. Most of these people are probably tourists because I find they are the ones who think this city is run purely for their benefit! If our house sale goes through we will be out of here at the end of July and we are moving up North where we hope people can cope with the sight of two lively terriers running about! Honestly, I have come back from walks in tears before now and the people I know who own staffies are constantly on their guard.
 

Moomin1

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We no longer use guard dogs but now use ostriches as we find that most intruders will not come prepared for ostriches. Ostriches are a far superior deterrent as not only do they have the speed to chase intruders off the premises but they just peck at them until they leave the premises.
Who the heck has the facilities to keep ostriches as guard pets though lol!!
 

Thriller

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Oh, she is lovely! I find people in Bath are very hostile to dogs, so much so that I have given up going to our local park. Lots of people are nice but enough are so horrible that it makes me very tense, which puts my male dog on edge. Most of these people are probably tourists because I find they are the ones who think this city is run purely for their benefit! If our house sale goes through we will be out of here at the end of July and we are moving up North where we hope people can cope with the sight of two lively terriers running about! Honestly, I have come back from walks in tears before now and the people I know who own staffies are constantly on their guard.
Must be awful :( im the opposite kind of person. If i see a dog at all on holiday im like AWWWWWWWWWWW HIIII! no matter the breed.
 

indiat

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I had a woman shout at me because my two were tussling with each other in the park, therefore they are vicious and should be muzzled in public! Then there was the child who kicked my older dog because he ran after the child's ball and the granny started screaming abuse at me, telling me she was going to kill my dog as he should be under control! Yes, he should have come back when he was called but he got excited when he saw the ball, he didn't go near the child. The child went over to HIM and started kicking him! As you can imagine, that conversation did not go well. I find it very stressful living here now, tbh, for all sorts of reasons. I find when we talk the dogs out of the city centre we don't have any trouble. They are live wires but Mannies are aloof with strangers and won't approach the way labradors or a staffie will, yet in the city centre, their mere presence sends people into a frenzy. Carry an overbred teacup breed around in a handbag though, that's OK!
 

Moomin1

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I had a woman shout at me because my two were tussling with each other in the park, therefore they are vicious and should be muzzled in public! Then there was the child who kicked my older dog because he ran after the child's ball and the granny started screaming abuse at me, telling me she was going to kill my dog as he should be under control! Yes, he should have come back when he was called but he got excited when he saw the ball, he didn't go near the child. The child went over to HIM and started kicking him! As you can imagine, that conversation did not go well. I find it very stressful living here now, tbh, for all sorts of reasons. I find when we talk the dogs out of the city centre we don't have any trouble. They are live wires but Mannies are aloof with strangers and won't approach the way labradors or a staffie will, yet in the city centre, their mere presence sends people into a frenzy. Carry an overbred teacup breed around in a handbag though, that's OK!
I'm sorry but IMO all dogs should be on a lead in a public place, regardless of temperament etc. If any dog ran after my child's football I would be asking them to remove the dog and restrain it to stop it doing that in future too. And yes, he should have come back when you called him, therefore you don't have full control of your dog, so he shouldn't be off the lead in public. That being said, if my child kicked an animal I would put her on a lead too...
 

Thriller

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I'm sorry but IMO all dogs should be on a lead in a public place, regardless of temperament etc. If any dog ran after my child's football I would be asking them to remove the dog and restrain it to stop it doing that in future too. And yes, he should have come back when you called him, therefore you don't have full control of your dog, so he shouldn't be off the lead in public. That being said, if my child kicked an animal I would put her on a lead too...
If there were enough places to let dogs safely off lead, then they COULD be on lead in public. Dogs need a lot of exercise too, and you can walk them all day on a lean and still not burn them out. Off lead they burn themselves out. Can you imagine just walking a horse around on a leadrope for its life? Im sure you know it would go mad.
 

Moomin1

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If there were enough places to let dogs safely off lead, then they COULD be on lead in public. Dogs need a lot of exercise too, and you can walk them all day on a lean and still not burn them out. Off lead they burn themselves out. Can you imagine just walking a horse around on a leadrope for its life? Im sure you know it would go mad.
I am not saying it's right on the dogs. I am saying that dogs should not be off the lead in a public park where there are children. I know dogs need a lot of exercise and preferably off the lead, however, not at mine or anybody else's child's expense. I say the same to anyone who hacks a horse out who they cannot control efficiently enough to prevent an accident due to lack of control.
 

indiat

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The dog was in a part of the park where he was allowed off the lead. No animal is 100 per cent all the time, if you have a problem with dogs, do not go into spaces where they are allowed off the lead. Yes, he should have come back, but seeing as I was running after him with a lead in my hand, the sensible thing to do would have been to let me catch him, put him on the lead, apologise and take him away, not attack him. We do have laws about cruelty toward animals in this country as well, which people seem to forget. If you cannot bear a dog running after your child's ball then people like you shouldn't go into public spaces where dogs are allowed off the lead. Especially in a park that has an area reserved for children and is dog free that they could have gone to, or go to the park up the road that allows no dogs but charges people £1 admission, which most people seem to be too cheap to pay. Public spaces are meant to be shared, if dogs are permitted to use it, then you must share with them. If you find that unacceptable go elsewhere - there are plenty of places that ban dogs. Animals, especially a puppy, as he was at the time, do not always behave well, that doesn't make them a menace. If you can't make allowances for this or SHARE A PUBLIC SPACE, then YOU are a far bigger problem than the dog. Frankly I am so sick of people who have kids who then expect to have a no fly zone around their little darlings. I am a parent myself, if a dog chased my child's ball and wanted to play, I wouldn't see it as a massive problem. If it chased my kids, that would be different. And yes, one of my kids used to be terrified of dogs after being threatened by an Irish red setter and you know what I DIDN'T do? Take her into a park where dogs where allowed off the lead.

BTW can I add that now that he has grown up he has excellent recall? And having just seen your latest post, Moomin, again, do NOT go into a park where dogs are allowed off the lead with your children if you find the potential risk unacceptable. You cannot dole out abuse to people who are doing something that they are within their rights to do. And regardless of what you might think, a dog chasing a ball is NOT threatening behaviour!
 
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Thriller

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I am not saying it's right on the dogs. I am saying that dogs should not be off the lead in a public park where there are children. I know dogs need a lot of exercise and preferably off the lead, however, not at mine or anybody else's child's expense. I say the same to anyone who hacks a horse out who they cannot control efficiently enough to prevent an accident due to lack of control.
True. But most kid parks here have fences, so the dogs don't get in :/
 

Thriller

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The dog was in a part of the park where he was allowed off the lead. No animal is 100 per cent all the time, if you have a problem with dogs, do not go into spaces where they are allowed off the lead. Yes, he should have come back, but seeing as I was running after him with a lead in my hand, the sensible thing to do would have been to let me catch him, put him on the lead, apologise and take him away, not attack him. We do have laws about cruelty toward animals in this country as well, which people seem to forget. If you cannot bear a dog running after your child's ball then people like you shouldn't go into public spaces where dogs are allowed off the lead. Especially in a park that has an area reserved for children and is dog free that they could have gone to, or go to the park up the road that allows no dogs but charges people £1 admission, which most people seem to be too cheap to pay. Public spaces are meant to be shared, if dogs are permitted to use it, then you must share with them. If you find that unacceptable go elsewhere - there are plenty of places that ban dogs. Animals, especially a puppy, as he was at the time, do not always behave well, that doesn't make them a menace. If you can't make allowances for this or SHARE A PUBLIC SPACE, then YOU are a far bigger problem than the dog. Frankly I am so sick of people who have kids who then expect to have a no fly zone around their little darlings. I am a parent myself, if a dog chased my child's ball and wanted to play, I wouldn't see it as a massive problem. If it chased my kids, that would be different. And yes, one of my kids used to be terrified of dogs after being threatened by an Irish red setter and you know what I DIDN'T do? Take her into a park where dogs where allowed off the lead.
Sorry but a puppy should not be off the lead until it is train in recall. public spaces are free to all to use SAFELY and a non-recall trained puppy is not safe.
 

indiat

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We thought he was. He slipped up when he saw a ball being kicked past him in an otherwise empty park and decided to chase it. He hasn't done it since. He's not a menace to society and he didn't deserve to be attacked. Again, I was right behind with a lead in my hand when I realised he wasn't listening. He chased a ball, FFS and was nowhere near the child until the child RAN over to him and attacked him. Sorry for hijacking your thread OP.
 

Moomin1

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The dog was in a part of the park where he was allowed off the lead. No animal is 100 per cent all the time, if you have a problem with dogs, do not go into spaces where they are allowed off the lead. Yes, he should have come back, but seeing as I was running after him with a lead in my hand, the sensible thing to do would have been to let me catch him, put him on the lead, apologise and take him away, not attack him. We do have laws about cruelty toward animals in this country as well, which people seem to forget. If you cannot bear a dog running after your child's ball then people like you shouldn't go into public spaces where dogs are allowed off the lead. Especially in a park that has an area reserved for children and is dog free that they could have gone to, or go to the park up the road that allows no dogs but charges people £1 admission, which most people seem to be too cheap to pay. Public spaces are meant to be shared, if dogs are permitted to use it, then you must share with them. If you find that unacceptable go elsewhere - there are plenty of places that ban dogs. Animals, especially a puppy, as he was at the time, do not always behave well, that doesn't make them a menace. If you can't make allowances for this or SHARE A PUBLIC SPACE, then YOU are a far bigger problem than the dog. Frankly I am so sick of people who have kids who then expect to have a no fly zone around their little darlings. I am a parent myself, if a dog chased my child's ball and wanted to play, I wouldn't see it as a massive problem. If it chased my kids, that would be different. And yes, one of my kids used to be terrified of dogs after being threatened by an Irish red setter and you know what I DIDN'T do? Take her into a park where dogs where allowed off the lead.

BTW can I add that now that he has grown up he has excellent recall? And having just seen your latest post, Moomin, again, do NOT go into a park where dogs are allowed off the lead with your children if you find the potential risk unacceptable. You cannot dole out abuse to people who are doing something that they are within their rights to do. And regardless of what you might think, a dog chasing a ball is NOT threatening behaviour!
Don't preach to me about animal welfare. I have dedicated the past 8 years to nothing but and yet I still feel that people who cannot control their dogs in a public place should not allow them off the lead. You also did not provide this 'extra information' in your previous post, therefore I am not to know that this park has a designated dog off lead area. Clearly, if there is such a park, with such an area, then people would be mad to let their children enter that park. However, it stands IMO that anyone who lets their dog off the lead in an area where other dogs are off the lead, should they not be able to recall them, then they are idiots quite frankly, regardless of whether kids are there or not.
 
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