Waterford bits and the downwards transition...

[Gwenneh]

So.

I have my lovely, lovely loan horse who is just amazingly awesome and terrificly talented, a complete joy to ride.

As he is a share who is also ridden by his owner, he goes in the bit of her choice - a Waterford. Until I got on him, I had never ridden with a Waterford before. I know that the principle is that it's a bit that he can't brace against (and thank god for that, because he's strong!) and that they're often used for eventing. So I did my best, just kept quiet hands, and sort of got on with it.

But - I'm a dressage rider - Waterfords aren't used in dressage, so everything I've ridden has always gone in a snaffle, or a French link, or some version thereof. Now I'm faced with riding a wonderful horse where the cues I know just aren't as effective as I'd like!

For example, yesterday I just got on and we were working on transitoons. Now, he's incredibly forward-going and gets VERY excited when we jump (note to self: school on the flat FIRST, jump LATER!) and I was asking for the downwards transition like I normally do (half halt, sit deep, etc.) but it seems like the action I was using with my hands wasn't very effective. I couldn't for the life of me sort out what the *best* way to ask for a downwards transition with this bit would be! I know *my* downwards transitions aren't that great, but they were never this rough!

So - could someone who rides in a Waterford PLEASE explain to me a little bit of what you do and how you do it? I'm just not making the connection between what I'm told the action of the bit is and what my hands should/should not be doing.

A little insight would probably go a long way here, I think!

 

[lmholden]

Can't you discuss this with his owner?

 

[Madam_max]

Are you sure it's not that your just not used to how the horse goes. I ride my mare in a snaffle mostly but for jumping and hacking I ride in a Waterford and I don't find I ask for downward transitions any differently.

 

[Gwenneh]

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Can't you discuss this with his owner?

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I have. I wanted insight from others, thanks.

 

[Gwenneh]

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Are you sure it's not that your just not used to how the horse goes. I ride my mare in a snaffle mostly but for jumping and hacking I ride in a Waterford and I don't find I ask for downward transitions any differently.

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It could very well be that, and I know he and I aren't used to each other at all. I'm just trying to flesh out a bit of the theory behind the type of bit, since I'm *not* at all used to this type of action.

 

[Madam_max]

Well it should it theory stop them from leaning on the bit (as you know). I don't actually think they are even that strong. Can you try and school in a snaffle and see if it's any different?

 

[Gwenneh]

I can; he has a snaffle for dressage comps but the owner doesn't school in it. I know he *goes* in one, how well is a different story according to his owner. We've only had a small handful of rides thus far so I haven't wanted to switch anything up too badly, after all, he's getting used to a new rider as well as me getting used to him!

In all other ways when we're going in the school, my normal cues work fine (or maybe slightly differently). It's just this downwards transition lark that I'm having issues with!

 

[lastresort]

~HI i have used waterfords for a long time now initially because My mare was strong and leaning on me all the time and then when we jumped she would grab the bit. I use a waterford snaffle for showjumping and a wterford pelham with roundings but no curb for XC. Both work fab and i have control but without the sharpness as if you touch her mouth with anything else she will stop (sensitive). I like to be taken to the jump and feel her there and you get this with this bit. I school in a french link similar to a KK now. I have tried schooling with the waterford and after a while found her better in the french link basically as we both progressed. My trainer uses a waterford with stronger horses for schooling but similar changes once they are off the forehand. Can I ask how long you have had her?

 

[fairhill]

I school mine in a waterford, and compete in a snaffle as well.
TBH I haven't noticed a difference in downwards transitions for either horse.
In fact I am a lot more effective with the waterford with Meg as I can keep her soft and rounded, rather than her hollowing. Both horses are very keen on standing still though.

I have noticed with the waterford that it can sometimes run through their mouths, so steering can be an issue, and I've seen Chloe turn her head to one side to evade it whilst my mum's been riding her.

 

[lastresort]

agreed steering can be an issue and i did have the head turning problem too. but i never had any transition problems (my horse doesnt need any encouragement to stop!)
I did use the pelham as a snaffle (you know what i mean) to stop the bit running through.

I really reccomend this bit and think stick with it if he is used to it?

 

[k9h]

I hunt in a Waterford Nelson gag to help with steering & breaks. I went with the Nelson as that has full cheeks to stop the bit sliding around from side to side.
I find it very similar to a normal snaffle & just treat it as such as does horse.

Waterford Mouthpiece

This bit has a chain type mouthpiece which has ‘ball shaped links’ linked together, the bit is floppy and mobile in everyway, it is completely movable in all directions. The Waterford mouthpiece has proved one of the most popular bits for bitting problems such as leaning, taking hold of the bit, setting the jaw ect, when the horse tries to lean or take hold of the bit, the waterford mouthpiece collapses, thus the horse has nothing rigid to take hold of. It encourages the horse to work of their quarters and carry themselves rather than using the bit as a ‘bike handle’ to lean on. This bit has several joints and distributes the pressure of the mouthpiece over both the tongue and bars. Also this bit may look severe, this is quite a mild bit and due to the mobility of the mouthpiece it generally suits any breed of horse and mouth confirmation. The Waterford mouth should be worn ¼” - ½” longer than any other mouthpiece as the mouthpiece needs to curl slightly around the lips to enable the bit to work to its full potential (except the Waterford Pelham – as the mouthpiece is worn the normal length).

 

[Bounty]

I'm a big fan of the waterford!
Tills was always played in one (2nd horse in my sig, wearing her waterford!) and I found it perfect for her, she was previously unstoppable in a balding gag

It's not that it's strong, but that the pressure is completely different to anything else and they can't take a hold.
Just swapped my youngster into one. I've had her in a relatively straight/fixed Myler comfort snaffe mouthpiece to encourage her to have confidence in the bit, but now she's gone overboard and started leaning!

Was pleased to find that she was light and responsive in the waterford rather than running through my hand as she was doing before. Will be buying a full cheek waterford from CostwoldSJ to help with the steering a little though!

I ride as I would in a normal snafle, but find that I can 'feel' alot more with my fingers, so my aids can be more refined. I think the horse can define the aids alot clearer too.. perhaps you needs to try 'less is more' with yours? Though as a dressage rider I'm sure that's what you're aiming for anyway... please don't be offended!

 

[Gwenneh]

No offense taken, Bounty, and thanks to everyone who has given their perspective. The information is very helpful to someone who has never ridden outside of a French link or snaffle (or hackamore) before!

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

There is no difference to them except that you can be lighter on the hand aids, and you should NEVER 'saw' at the mouth with it, hence why it is a no goer for kids - although 'sawing' at the mouth should never be done anyway.

I school and sometime hack in one I have no issues whatso ever - pony is easy to steer and 9/10 is lighter on the forehand.(have to change to different bit every so often as my horse is way to clever for himself and can even lean on a waterford !!!!) Stopping is never an issue either.

Is there a chance that you are being too soft with it !!! No offense meant.

 

[Gwenneh]

It's possible that I *am* being to soft with it. I've heard varied reviews as to how soft/harsh it can be and so might be erring on the side of caution. After all, he is a share horse that belongs to someone else! I find that my contact is steady, but I am keeping it extremely light at this point and not asking for too much using rein aids at all, mostly trying to work through seat and leg. It's moving back down through the transitions that this is a problem; obviously I don't want to haul on his face, but how much is too much to ask?

 

[fairhill]

I treat it exactly the same contact-wise as I do a snaffle.

It sounds like it might be a schooling issue with the horse, if the owner tends to use the reins to stop rather than seat, then he won't understand what you're asking for... in which case perseverance and repetition should help you.

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

It is hard when it is someone elses horse

You will get there though - he just needs to get used to you.
x

 

[Sal_E]

Problem in that he resists, or problem in that the transition is just not happening?

 

[Gwenneh]

Problem in that the transition takes a million years to happen. I ask. And ask again. And ask. And ask. And THEN he bumps down into the slower stride - and I do mean BuMPS, as it's not the smoothest transition ever.

 

[Sal_E]

Is it possible that you are trying to use aids other than your reins & he doesn't understand? If the owner just relies on reins 'as brakes', your more sophisticated use of your seat may be a bit confusing for him.

I think you need to use the same theory as you would when sharpening a horse up (leg first, leg & stick if no response). So, use your seat (& voice) with a subtle rein aid - if you don't get a fairly immediate response, use the reins fairly sharpely (obviously you need to judge what is sharp to this horse based on his sensitivity to the bit - you don't need to be crude in your request unless he's really switched off). Use the rein as the equivalent of the stick, i.e. better to use it sharpely a few times & teach him what you want that nag nag nag.

That's the principle, but in terms of technique, there's 3 things which should help you. 1) use your voice to help him learn to understand the aid that's coming from your seat, 2) do repeated transitions to use anticipation to your advantage - i.e. he knows it's coming so will be ready for it & therefore more sensitive & 3) use the fence to help you - i.e. first few times, ask for the downwards transition running him into the fence rather than turning with the track.

It may be that you need to do 10 mins of continuous transition work at the start of every session to get him into that frame of mind initially, but that's fine. Start with walk to halt & build up from there.