Weaving? Do horses copy one another?

[scrumpygus]

I have just had a new neighbour move in and the horse weaves like a nutter - every time i see it its weaving back and forth so fast - what worries me is that my mare who has been seen to weave a few years ago but not for a long while might start to copy? Does anyone have any experience of this? Do i have anything to worry about?
Obviously the owner knows it weaves and hasnt put a grill up and doesnt want to put a grill up which was fine when no other horses could see it but now its next door to me do i have a right to ask her to do something about it?
Any advice would be appreciated x

 

[AmyMay]

I think once horses reach a certain age the chances of them copying reduce.



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[scrumpygus]

My mare is 14 now - its just that she has done it in the past but not for a long time (about 5 years)

 

[milliepops]

Personally I don't think many horses copy each other in this way - my mare has a box walker on one side, a weaver on the other and a door kicker opposite - she hasn't picked up on it and neither have the other horses on the yard.

They might, however, pick up on a vibe and behave accordingly - if the horse is weaving because it is stressed out over something on the yard then you might expect that if the same stress is affecting other horses, they may also develop vices, IYSWIM.

I think there have been studies done to see whether horses copy this sort of behaviour, as far as I know there is no scientific evidence yet - google something like 'horses copying stereotypies' and you should get the references!

 

[ladyt25]

Mine weaves, always has, when stabled but only if he is waiting for his food or thinsk something's going on and he's missing out! My sister's horse has been next to him for 5years (since a 4 yo) and they can see each other through the stables bars too not just over the door.

He has not ever weaved so no I don't think they do see it and copy. Although my sister's horse does sweem to have started trying to unbolt his stable door (something my horse is ultra-skilled at) not quite sure how he'd pick up that trait though! hehe

 

[scrumpygus]

Thanks milliepops - i googled it and there is very different split opinions and no scientific evidence to support that they do or they dont. The only thing i can really go on is personal experiences that others have had - everyone seems to say they will copy but i havent yet heard of anyone who this has actually happened to.

 

[spacefaer]

Horses don't learn to weave from watching another. Weaving is a direct response to stress - some horses weave as a coping mechanism, some boxwalk, some crib.

The fact that she used to weave and now doesn't is a credit to your management, that she must be relaxed and happy

There is no reason why your mare should weave, despite having a weaver next door, unless she is stressed. If nothing has changed in her life to stress her, then you should be fine.

 

[Aniseed]

It has been proven that horses don't learn/copy stereotypic behaviour. There is a small chance that a foal may copy it's dam but that is the only time you need to wory.

Horses that weave do so as a coping mechanism from being stressed due to being stabled. Restricting the horses field of vision by using a weaving grill is only going to make the horse fell even more enclosed and probably just step back behind the door and weave. The best thing for a horse that weaves is to have it in a stable where it can see out of all 4 sides and see other horses, but often even this doesn't reduce the behaviour.

I really wouldn't worry about your horse though, she is only likely to start weaving again if put in a stressful situation such as prolonged box rest.

 

[milliepops]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone seems to say they will copy but i havent yet heard of anyone who this has actually happened to.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that it's one of the many urban myths surrounding horses

You often get it on livery yards - someone, sometime heard that horses might copy behaviour, and because no one wants their horse to develop a stable vice, it can become a bit hysterical!

Personally the only vice I wouldn't want on a yard is cribbing, and that's only because of the damage it can cause. Not a problem if the owner is happy to cough up for repairs. I know several other yards that have really bad wind-suckers, and none of the other horses do that either. I wouldn't worry about it, just keep your own horse happy

 

[mainpower]

My 2 1/2 year old has started weaving after moving to a box opposite a chronic weaver (the weaver has weaved for 12 years, ever since yobs set fire to his stable when he was a youngster. He also cribs and boxwalks). He didn't weave when he was in a box on the same side of the yard. I have had my youngster for 13 months and he didn't do it before moving boxes. In all other ways he's a placid laid back chap.
My older horse (who can be a stresshead) has been on yards with horses that have just about every stable "vice" going over the years but has not copied any of them. So I think it depends on the individual horse but yes, some will copy. And until my youngster started weaving I would not have thought they did copy!

 

[*hic*]

I strongly suspect that it's a case of different horses may copy or not copy. Certainly I have a weaver and my "new" horse came to the yard and and now weaves - but usually only when the other horse does. However the ponies have never learnt to do it. My little grey mare was travelled by me for a couple of years at least twice a week and never scraped her teeth on the inside of the lorry. Since she has been travelling with a horse that does scrape it's teeth she has also started to do it.

It's just like people really, some are copy cats and others aren't, so whether your mare will copy or not depends entirely on her own personality.

 

[Snowysadude]

[ QUOTE ]

I think there have been studies done to see whether horses copy this sort of behaviour, as far as I know there is no scientific evidence yet - google something like 'horses copying stereotypies' and you should get the references!

[/ QUOTE ]

There have indeed, my friend is doing her dissertation on stereotipies in equines and has so far found no scientific evidence to suggest it is copied at all

 

[marmalade76]

My dad's horse started weaving after being stabled opposite a weaver. She was nine at the time and had never done it before, this we definitly know as we have had her from birth. I don't know if she is still doing it, she has been on loan for two years and I have not thought to ask about it.

 

[*hic*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think there have been studies done to see whether horses copy this sort of behaviour, as far as I know there is no scientific evidence yet - google something like 'horses copying stereotypies' and you should get the references!

[/ QUOTE ]

There have indeed, my friend is doing her dissertation on stereotipies in equines and has so far found no scientific evidence to suggest it is copied at all

[/ QUOTE ]

Well let's go a little deeper on my mare. I bought her as a three year old. She had only ever once been in a lorry before I picked her up. I decided that her life was going to involve a lot of travelling so I loaded her everytime I took my other horse out - up to three times a week - and she leart first to stand quietly and wait on the lorry, and then to unload and be re-loaded, then to unload and tie by the side of the lorry, then to unload, wait, be tacked up, worked, untacked, tied up to lorry, re-loaded, brought back off the lorry, worked again etc - all the things she was going to need to do without question or stress in her future life as an eventer. The horse(s) she travelled with have no bad habits whilst travelling and are perfectly behaved, as she was. Then she went to a pro whilst one of his higher level horses was off, she travelled to competitions by herself and was perfectly behaved, standing in or out of the lorry with no stress behaviours, she travelled with another horse who again had no stress behaviours and my mare still showed no sign of any. Then she began to travel with the horse that had been off work. This horse scrapes his teeth on the checkerplate in the lorry. All of a sudden my mare now does it too. The only thing that has changed is the "new" horse. The level of competition, having a companion, lorry etc are all exactly the same. I think we can safely say she learnt to do it!

 

[tangoharvey]

http://www.horsesciencenews.com/129/horses-selective-in-who-they-copy

found this bit of research which suggests they do copy, but it is dependant on the social hierarchy of the horse....likewise there is much evidence to suggest horses dont copy....so in summary I have no idea!

 

[RobinHood]

Horses do not copy stereotypic behaviour. In cases where people believe they have copied another horse it is likely to be because both horses are subjected to the same environmental stressors (lack of social interaction, lack of forage etc). Weaving is a locomotive stereotypy which can develop into box walking if the horse is prevented from weaving.

Horses can copy non-stereotypic behaviour such as door banging as it has an obvious goal; food or attention.

 

[MontyandZoom]

Monty lives out in a herd of 22 including my two. He weaves, for the first 3 months he did it constantly............daft animal.

He is top boy and very much leader of the pack, but none of the others have ever copied it. Even Zoom just looks at him like he's a wierdo and they're joined at the hip. I really wouldn't worry about it.

 

[*hic*]

And you would explain my mare's behaviour, which changed after three years when introduced to a horse with the behaviour she now displays, that being the only change, how exactly?

There is no gain or reward for either of them in their scraping.

 

[CBAnglo]

Agree - it is the horses reacting to their environment. I also think that when one horse sees another is distressed and is weaving/cribbing etc it can also become distressed and start the same behaviour i.e. copying. But it will depend on the horse - some horse dont care what the other horses around them are doing, but others are acutely aware of any vibes coming from other horses and start to feel the same.

I have two very different horses - one doesnt give a toss about other horses, is much happier on his own (both ridden and in field) and prefers humans. He has been stabled since a 4 yr old next to a chronic windsucker, a cribber and opposite a weaver. He kicks the door for attention (he loves human company). He is very laid back and is quite intelligent and self-assured.

The other one is completely stressy - he reacts to all the horses around him and can never be on his own. He cribs after meals as he used to have ulcers (comp horse/grain diet/no turnout) and he finds it comforting. He also cribs when stressed. He started kicking the door for attention but soon stopped when attention = saddle.

However if the horse opposite him starts panicking and weaving (which is does chronically) then he starts cribbing. I also saw him do a "mini-weave" i.e. he started moving his head over the door whereas usually he has it stuck in a haynet. He is 12 and has never been stabled opposite a weaver before.

 

[Hippona]

I have 3 horses- stabled next to each other in an internal barn with 'half walls' so they can all see each other. One is a stress head and weaves on occasion-usually when he's waiting to go out or just brought in...... but he's much better than he used to be.

Neither of the others have ever weaved.

 

[millitiger]

i have a weaver and not one single horse has ever copied him in 5 years.

i have a stressy tb who was a weanling when Pilfer was stabled next to her, he has also been next to 2 other weanlings including one who jumped out of his stable but none of them ever copied.

i think even if your horse does copy it still would signify there was something wrong in the horse's enviroment.
a horse wouldn't just start to weave because it saw another horse doing it and thought it looked like fun.

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

I really do not know, but I do know peoples opinions are quite often split about this.

What I do agree on as stated by some others here is that if one horse is stressy it can make another feel stressed. Its like people, if you are surrounded by stress heads it may take its toll on you and your emotions.
I do believe that horses can be affected in a similar way.
I think that some horses may copy behaviour such as this.
There are hundreds upon hundreds of studies looking into all types of animal behaviour and there is a lot of copying and mimicking out there in the world of animals so I would think it is entirely possible.

 

[MrsMozart]

Dizzy weaved when she was in a 'normal' stable. Now she is in an open barn system, with easy views all round, she only weaves if she sees me and thinks I'm going to provide food/comfort/ excitement.

She has been stabled opposite and next to various horses, but none of them have 'copied' her

 

[superpony]

I have a pony that when i got him box walked and weaved as he was so stressed out. When he chilled out and moved to a new place, he immediately stopped his vices. That was when he was 5, hes now 11 and has never shown them since. At my old yard he was in a big barn opposite a weaver and never copied even when he was on box rest.

My ex racehorse weaves, he has always been stabled next to my pony, and he has never copied him. I don't have a weave grill up as he is not a major weaver and i think stopping him doing it could cause him more stress.

So from what i have seen i would say that they dont copy and people just jump to the wrong conclusions.

 

[Seahorse]

My yard manager has a horse that weaves, his other mare has been stabled opposite her for 6 years and has never copied her. The horse opposite Axel weaves sometimes too but he doesn't xx

 

[Silverspring]

It's a myth, if your horse is happy in his environment then he will not start weaving just because a horse in view is weaving.

If your horse is stressed in his environment then he would probably weave anyway as he has a history of it.

My girl weaves in the morning when she wants out or in the evening if she's upset (usually too many people on the yard causes this but lucky the yard is normally quiet) in the 5 years I've had her (and the 15 years my friend owned her before me) I have never found a horse that 'copied' her.

She has had 3 foals, all of which she weaved in front of and none of which picked up the trait.