Weight Critique please.

[shadowboy]

Lastest pics from my fatty. these were taken on christmas eve. He is not in work anymore as his bum has gone up recently so unfair. Wither at 13.2hh and bum at 13.3hh. He will be 4 on the 5th May.

He is out from 9am till 6pm and in at night with 6kg of coarse quality but 'low calorie' (has been analysed for an average digestable energy of only 7mg/Kg (most hay is about 8-9mg/Kg)

He only has a handful of soaked High Fibre to add biotin etc to as he is unshod. There are no fat pads as such but hes annoyingly well covered still. When he's in he is naked and when out in a no fill sheet due to clip.

Would you be upset with his weight at the moment? Should I cut down hay? (there is none left in the morning- and it is already in a speciel net called an eliminet)

Any advice will be taken on board.

Sorry that he's not four square, and pics are in the dark. But gratefuf for comments- I'm keen to get weight off if needs be.

 

[cassie summers]

he looks lovely and doesnt look overwieght to me but then i have a shire x and have always had cobs (not fat ones)just well covered i am a great believer in ad lib hay but if your worried just soak it for a few hours but dont cut down his hay better to cut down on the hard feed

 

[springer1021]

He doesn't look overweight to me either.

 

[Cortez]

Bit tubby, but not obese. If you're not riding him perhaps a bit of lunging would keep him trim?

 

[shadowboy]

Thank you both for taking the time to have a look- I'm doing what I can to keep weight off without actually being able to work him!

 

[shadowboy]

Hi Cortez- I don't have a school and the fields are too wet for lunging. Its also sadly too dark in the evening to walk him out by the time I'm back from work (5ish)

 

[Cortez]

Hi Cortez- I don't have a school and the fields are too wet for lunging. Its also sadly too dark in the evening to walk him out by the time I'm back from work (5ish)

I feel your pain, horrid here too. I've just flung my lot out and given up trying to work them for the time being (and they're tubby too, BTW).

 

[Degan]

Considering he's not in work I think he looks okay. A bit of a belly imo but not a massive crest or apple bum so looks fine to me If he were in work then personally I would like to see a more trim belly but wouldn't want much off else where.
Plus he is very handsome!

 

[MissSBird]

Having used eliminets I've found they're just an expensive small holed haynet. I now put a normal small holed haylege net over mine and THAT makes a difference.

If he's gradually loosing weight at the moment then I'd be satisfied. Weight loss should be done slowly - crash dieting is as bad for horses as it is humans. It took us a full year to safetly bring a morbidly obese fell pony we purchased to a safe weight.

He could stand to loose a little weight, so if he's not I'd maybe consider reducing his hay. It's worth noting that recent studies have shown that horses (particularly natives and he's a connie I think?) who do not loose weight at 1.5% of their bodyweight can be further reduced to 1%. That's what my connie is now in order to try and keep his belly trim!

 

[Holly Hocks]

I don't think he looks fat at all - I think he's perfect!

 

[shadowboy]

Considering he's not in work I think he looks okay. A bit of a belly imo but not a massive crest or apple bum so looks fine to me If he were in work then personally I would like to see a more trim belly but wouldn't want much off else where.
Plus he is very handsome!

Thank you! He's greyed out out so much on his face this year!

Having used eliminets I've found they're just an expensive small holed haynet. I now put a normal small holed haylege net over mine and THAT makes a difference.

If he's gradually loosing weight at the moment then I'd be satisfied. Weight loss should be done slowly - crash dieting is as bad for horses as it is humans. It took us a full year to safetly bring a morbidly obese fell pony we purchased to a safe weight.

He could stand to loose a little weight, so if he's not I'd maybe consider reducing his hay. It's worth noting that recent studies have shown that horses (particularly natives and he's a connie I think?) who do not loose weight at 1.5% of their bodyweight can be further reduced to 1%. That's what my connie is now in order to try and keep his belly trim!

I tried double netting but he would rip through the outside net- got through 2 in just as many months. So trying the eliminet- seems to be a touch stronger /better quality than the shires small holed nets I used to use.

I'm not sure home much he would eat out in the field during a 9 hour turnout. I have been going with approx 2% of body weight. He weighs 410kg. So 8.2kg of feed. 6kg over 15 hours and the remaining 2 over 9 hours i'm assuming he will eat out in the field. If I took it down to 1% I would be looking at only feeding him 2 kg over 15 hours!! Surely that would cause problems for the hind gut if he hasnt got feed trckling through? Or not?

I have no idea how quickly he eats but once or twice he's come in later at about 8ish and even then the net is empty in the morning at 9am.

Its really tough - I've had poor doers and cribbers and a dressage horse who needed feeding before and found it less stressful and easier than a good doer!

 

[JFTDWS]

Hi Cortez- I don't have a school and the fields are too wet for lunging. Its also sadly too dark in the evening to walk him out by the time I'm back from work (5ish)

I feel that pain too. He could stand to lose a bit before spring, certainly, but I wouldn't be panicking about it yet. I would consider cutting his forage with straw - that way you can feed more without him starving over night. I feed my highlands mostly on straw with some fibre-based feed and only cut it with "better" forage if I have concerns about them not holding weight...

On the plus side, we've had the solstice so the only way is up - it will be lighter in the evenings every night now so hopefully be light enough to work him soon (ish!) and that will make a big difference to his undercarriage - a bit of toning will make a big difference

ets - I mean feed him less of what he's currently getting, but the same amount / possibly more actually forage!

 

[MissSBird]

They say that to loose weight you should be looking at 1.5% of body weight, so if he isn't dropping that last bit of weight you could drop it to that first. 1% should only be used as a last resort if 1.5% isn't working.

So you're looking at 6.15kg of feed for 24 hours. So I personally would be looking to feed just under 4kg overnight. Sounds like absoloutly nothing and there will probably be people who will lynch me for this (as clearly I'm starving my boy), but this has worked with me with two different natives, niether of which has had problems with ulcers/stress.

The main thing is to find the maintainance amount for your boy - how much he needs daily to maintain his weight. This can only be done through monitering his weight weekly and weighing what you're feeding carefully. Once you know this, you'll know how much to feed him for both weight loss and weight maintainance.

 

[hessy12]

I think he looks in good condition, not really fat. He is gorgeous too!

 

[merlin12]

I don't think he looks fat at all , looks perfect to me as well. He will drop a bit in January ,February .Also he is still growing .Looks a lovely boy.

 

[Cheiro1]

I think he does need to loose a bit of weight still, sorry!!

8 KGS of hay overnight is an awful lot for any good doer, let alone a fairly small pony!!

Agree with miss bird, I wouldnt want to see him having much more than 3.5/4kgs overnight.

 

[shadowboy]

Hi chiero1 can I just confirm he has 6kg overnight and not 8 as per the first post. Thank you. It seems he is somewhere between just right and a bit fat. Hmm will try substituting some straw in his net as concerned 3.5 kgs too little over 15 hours.

 

[ChwaraeTeg]

he looks lovely and doesnt look overwieght to me but then i have a shire x and have always had cobs (not fat ones)just well covered i am a great believer in ad lib hay but if your worried just soak it for a few hours but dont cut down his hay better to cut down on the hard feed

Lots of great advice from everyone Shadowboy .
As above, I would never, ever allow a horse to have an empty belly.
It leads to too many problems, physiological as well psychological.

Dramatic weight loss can be seen if you give well soaked hay.
8 hours reduces most of the calories.
Youngsters still need vitamins and goodness for growth and energy for warmth and work,
so it is always a fine balancing act for each individual.
(many experts differ)

Your horse looks great, a credit to you.
Tegs

 

[coss]

I personally think he looks a nice weight- possibly on the bigger side but if you're not working him and it is winter now then he may naturally lose some and when work starts that will lose more. Going into the spring i'd be more concerned but we've got another 2-4 months (depending on where you live ) of winter yet.
To me a lot of it looks more like lack of toned muscles rather than properly fat and better to be a bit over than a bit under at this time of year.

 

[SusieT]

He could probably stand to lose 30kg at least. IT's all very well saying he isn't that fat now but spring is coming.. He does not need 6kg of hay at all if he is out on grazing during the day, he should only weigh 350kg ish whih means 2% of his bwt is 7Kg f dry matter a day. So he is getting FAR too much. Did you know that ponies given a limited time to eat (ie out at day) will squeeze all theri grazing into 24hours? I would personally be giving him a small amount of soaked hay at night in a tiny net with double holes to try and keep his weight down. No hard feed. And exercise him on the long lines.

 

[SusieT]

to be totally honest as well I'd like him to be fed at different times in an ideal world-i.e a small net at 6pm, a handful at 10pm and fed again at 7am. Then you'd be able to split it better so he was restricted but not getting no food for long periods. I think a small net and soaked hay might be the way to get around this though.

As well, why do you only think he is eating 2kg out at grass?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I don't think he is fat but I do think that he has very little muscle tone, which makes him look overweight to the untrained eye.
If you decide to soak his hay you do not need to feed a smaller amount, you can feed well-soaked hay ad-lib. The alternative is to mix the hay with good quality oat straw, which has the same effect as humans eating celery, it uses more calories to digest it than you get from it.
I would be wary of letting a 4 yr old get too heavy, as it could damage his joints but equally I wouldn't do much lunging, for the same reason.
I have a VERY good doer, who came to me almost a year ago extremely overweight, she is on a diet and is losing her weight slowly. Our biggest problem has been that the grass was growing much later than usual, so still had calories in it. Now that the weather has turned colder and the grass has stopped growing, this is our optimum time for getting some weight off, although like you we can't do any work in the evenings, until we have more light.
As some-one else said, a weight tape ( no matter how inaccurate it is) is the best tool for monitoring weight loss/gain and thus helping you to adjust feed levels.

 

[shadowboy]

Thanks for all the comments! It's been really interesting. Re my estimation of 2kg during day was that he is with 2 others on a 2 acre paddock of very short grass waiting to come in by 3 as I found out from YO today- so I assumed that he wouldn't get much in 9 hours. I have put a net of hay mixed with straw but still of 6kg tonight to see how that works. I walked him out today for 40min but would struggle until lighter evenings kick in! Will keep plodding away at him though.
Oh and to the person who said he should be 350kg he weighed that when he was 24months! I think I'd really struggle to get 60kg off him! I was aiming to get him to 390 kg before spring hoping the straw substitute will work! Thanks all!

 

[Spring Feather]

He's not fat. He's a youngster. A growing native pony with a typically deep barrel and thicker neck. You can see that he dips at his loins and on his flanks which on the contrary suggests he's under conditioned. 400kgs - 425kgs is along the lines of what I'd expect a pony such as this to weigh TBH.