Weight Loss - unexplained -update

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aniford

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Hi
my mare Holly is doing OK in herself and has put approx 10kg on this last week. Its not a significant amount and this is what has been happening for months, she gains a little then after a few weeks loses again. Ive tried researching possible causes and suggested to my vet that it could be a thyroid problem because of the lack of other IBD symptoms (except weight loss).
The vet has totally dismissed my suggestion that Holly has anything except IBD on the grounds it is the commonest form of weight loss in horses and the thyroid research I found is from the USA, apparently they are 'behind us' with that sort of research and have frequently misdiagnosed hypothyroidism. I suggested hyperthyroidism caused by a tumour on the thyroid, as Holly has melanomas in the throat latch area.
Basically I have to hope that the corticosteroids will enable her to absorb the nutrients I am feeding her. If these do not work I expect to have her PTS mid-October.
Thank you to everyone who read and posted on my original request for help and ideas. I feel like I've run out of options and that the vet has written my mare off without really being very open minded about her condition. At the same time I'm thinking the vet must think I'm letting emotion cloud my judgement, but if it wasn't I think there would be something very wrong with me.
Ani
 
Maesfen said:
Sorry to hear your news and that your vet is being not as helpful as they could be. Is it possible to get a second opinion although the verdict might be exactly the same of course?
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Hi
Thanks Maesfen. I wish I could afford to just take her to Liverpool or somewhere and get them to actually do some sort of scan or biopsy. I no longer have her insured because at renewal date NFU wanted £900. The other thing is, I really dont want to put my mare through any surgery at her age, it wouldn't be fair to cause her that sort of trauma. Animals dont understand that something that hurts will (possibly) make them better, do they.
Its just too hard to think about having her PTS when she doesnt at the moment appear to be ill but I want to avoid a situation where she becomes so weak that she panics because she cant get off the floor or colics in the night.
Ani
 
Sorry to hear that your horse is unwell. However, 10kg per week is a SIGNIFICANT weight increase. If a horse manages to put on half a kilo a day it's doing very well. (For comparison beef cattle put on an average of 1 kilo per day and they are bred to put on weight fast!)

Sometimes horses that are stressed have trouble keeping their wieght constant. There may be no obvious signs but weight loss or inability to achieve a net weight gain over a long period can be indicative.
 
classicalfan said:
Sorry to hear that your horse is unwell. However, 10kg per week is a SIGNIFICANT weight increase. If a horse manages to put on half a kilo a day it's doing very well. (For comparison beef cattle put on an average of 1 kilo per day and they are bred to put on weight fast!)

OH! Thanks for that, thats quite comforting!

Sometimes horses that are stressed have trouble keeping their wieght constant. There may be no obvious signs but weight loss or inability to achieve a net weight gain over a long period can be indicative.
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She is a 'stressy' type horse, part TB, but I really dont know what, if anything she can have been stressing about since winter.

I do have my McTimeney physio coming out to her on Thursday. perhaps she can find something to explain her condition.
Thanks again
Ani
 
wouldn't necessarily be looking at liverpool etc - but just another local vet - I had to and it was the best thing I ever did.

Presume cushings has been checked for and bloods taken to rule out major things that are picked up by bloods?

Teeth etc ben done?

Have you tried feeding something like pink powder or live yoghurt? As they age the gut becomes less effective in absorbing nutrients :) Similar in humans - young nd old require more feed than ones in the middle

Hope you get some answers
 
I would also want Cushings to be checked for - weight loss can often be the only presenting sign. Make sure your vet tests levels of ACTH as well as the others.

I hope she picks up soon.
 
popularfurball said:
wouldn't necessarily be looking at liverpool etc - but just another local vet - I had to and it was the best thing I ever did.

Presume cushings has been checked for and bloods taken to rule out major things that are picked up by bloods?

Teeth etc ben done?

Have you tried feeding something like pink powder or live yoghurt? As they age the gut becomes less effective in absorbing nutrients :) Similar in humans - young nd old require more feed than ones in the middle

Hope you get some answers
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Hi
yeah all those things have been tried. Except my vet refuses to test for Cushings, he says it just isnt in the picture, theres no way she is a Cushingoid!
Thank you
Ani
 
JBW said:
I would also want Cushings to be checked for - weight loss can often be the only presenting sign. Make sure your vet tests levels of ACTH as well as the others.

I hope she picks up soon.
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Hi
Ive asked about Cushings test more than once, he says it would be a waste of money. What is frustrating though is that the reason for dismissing Cushings ie no symptoms other than weight loss and yet he is diagnosing IBD without any other symptoms and refuses to even consider that even with the lack of other IBD symptoms, including slightly elevated protein levels along with elevated calcium that her condition is anything but IBD.IBD usually presents with at least low serum protein levels from the literature Ive read.
The bottom line is now I owe a whole load of money to the vets and really cannot see a way I can find money for more tests.
Thanks for your post, I appreciate everyones comments.
Ani
 
OK, well a highly regarded professor at Liverpool said he'd put good money on any horse aged about 20 to have pituitary enlargement to some degree - symptomatic or not. There are false negatives and too many risks associated with some of the tests, so I agree testing for Cushing's may sometimes be a waste of money. Maybe put her on Vitex or other Agnus Castus supplement?

Your mare isn't prowling the weight off in the field by any chance?
 
Apparently the autumn is the worst time to test for Cushings anyway. I know horses (especially mares ) that can worry themselves thin in a week flat. And definitely low grade pain can make them loose weight spectacularly. My old girl was always a bit of a greyhound but when she had to go onto painkillers for a tendon injury she put on a load of weight and no, it wasn't because she wasn't working as she was semi-retired anyway.
 
I am a different (but similar) problem, in that I am trying to stabilise a long time (laminitus/cushings) problem.

Although it is quite expensive, I am in the process of having my forage nutritionally and mineral analysed.

I decided to use forage plus and they will also do a feed plan ..... the Mineral Analysis has come back today and has thrown some interesting results.

I just thought that this might be another avenue for you to investigate.

I think the website is www.forageplus.co.uk - but let me know if it is wrong and I will look it up again!!
 
brighteyes said:
OK, well a highly regarded professor at Liverpool said he'd put good money on any horse aged about 20 to have pituitary enlargement to some degree - symptomatic or not. There are false negatives and too many risks associated with some of the tests, so I agree testing for Cushing's may sometimes be a waste of money. Maybe put her on Vitex or other Agnus Castus supplement?

Your mare isn't prowling the weight off in the field by any chance?
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Hi
thank you. I dont know what Vitex or Agnus Castus are but will look them up. She is on corticosteroids at the moment, would they negate any affect that the supplements may have?

Originally when she lost weight back in January there had been a change in which horses grazed fields, I thought Holly had lost weight because she didnt like the mare put next to her and she was really weird about her. She 'prowled' but as far away from the other mare as possible. It was because of her strange behaviour back in Jan that we decided to put her in with another mare, she and her companion are now quite inseparable, even though the younger mare she is with, is very much in charge and has caused Holly a few kick injuries.
Many thanks
Ani
 
Hi
Holly had a physio treatment today. The physio couldnt find anything particular though Holly had her usual sorts of 'sore' bits at the top of her neck, around the poll and some soreness over her hindquarters which has probably been caused by a recent kick injury.
Nothing really though to suggest a reason for her gradual weight loss and inability to keep any weight gain on. Holly enjoyed her treatment though and Im sure she must be feeling a little better, I know I would if I could afford a massage!
Ani
 
Sorry if it's already been suggested? Have her teeth been checked? Perhaps it would be worth trying a chaff or beet as a haysubstitue?

And yes, corticosteroids will not help a cushings pony - they increase risk of laminitis And suppress immune system - which cushings already does.
 
popularfurball said:
Sorry if it's already been suggested? Have her teeth been checked? Perhaps it would be worth trying a chaff or beet as a haysubstitue?

And yes, corticosteroids will not help a cushings pony - they increase risk of laminitis And suppress immune system - which cushings already does.
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Hi
Thanks for your post. Yes all the most usual and common things like diet, worms & teeth, as being the cause were ruled out. She is wormed and worm counts completed, teeth are checked/treated every 9mths by vet. Also things like ragwort poisoning, although Im a bit surprised that no-one has mentioned some sort of poisoning.
I have been feeding more frequently and am now trying a chaff and 'just grass' forage feeds, as well as alpha beet and some high quality protein feed, my feed bill is a bit hair raising!
The side affects of the steroids are quite worrying :(
Ani
 
My little girl had steroids earlier in the year and has come out the other side :) I had no choice left, sometimes you have to make the call and at that time, I would rather she had lami than what she was suffering from. Xx
 
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