Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

ApolloStorm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 May 2012
Messages
398
Hello ROG!
Vehicle is Skoda Octavia 4x4 and Trailer is (hopefully) bateson Deauville .
1- B+E
2 - 1455kg ( this is the mass in service in my v5?)
3 - 2018kg ( again this is max permissiable mass in v5?)
4 - 2000kg
5 - 2300 Bateson Deauville
6 - 860kg

My math works out I should have 1140kg to play with in 'horse'
I am aiming to take one small 13hh pony and a 16hh horse who is about 515kg when last weighed.
Legal?
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
Hello ROG!
Vehicle is Skoda Octavia 4x4 and Trailer is (hopefully) bateson Deauville .
1- B+E
2 - 1455kg ( this is the mass in service in my v5?)
3 - 2018kg ( again this is max permissiable mass in v5?)
4 - 2000kg
5 - 2300 Bateson Deauville
6 - 860kg

My math works out I should have 1140kg to play with in 'horse'
I am aiming to take one small 13hh pony and a 16hh horse who is about 515kg when last weighed.
Legal?
LEGAL = SMILE

As you have B+E all that matters is that the max tow weight of 2000 and the trailer max MAM of 2300 are not exceeded - the lower figure of 2000 is used
Trailer is 860 empty so the max load for the trailer is 1140 as you stated
 

ApolloStorm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 May 2012
Messages
398
LEGAL = SMILE

As you have B+E all that matters is that the max tow weight of 2000 and the trailer max MAM of 2300 are not exceeded - the lower figure of 2000 is used
Trailer is 860 empty so the max load for the trailer is 1140 as you stated
Excellent!
Every time I think about towing and weights I get in a muddle, i was fairly sure I was right but good to know! Another question is do i have to account for anything stored in the vehicle (ie people/tack) in this? I thought not but ive heard mixed!
I was under the assumption that the vehicles given towing weight was calculated by the manufacturer to be when the vehicle is at its max capacity in the vehicle and also towing the full 2000kg in terms of safety etc?
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
Excellent!
Every time I think about towing and weights I get in a muddle, i was fairly sure I was right but good to know! Another question is do i have to account for anything stored in the vehicle (ie people/tack) in this? I thought not but ive heard mixed!
I was under the assumption that the vehicles given towing weight was calculated by the manufacturer to be when the vehicle is at its max capacity in the vehicle and also towing the full 2000kg in terms of safety etc?
Vehicle has its own max weight = GVW
Trailer has its own max weight = plated MAM

Max tow weight is determined by manufacturer and is done with an empty vehicle
There are some 4x4s which are designed to tow 3500 when empty at about 1800 - seriously
I would always recommend that the tow vehicle be heavier than the trailer at the time of towing
 

ApolloStorm

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 May 2012
Messages
398
Vehicle has its own max weight = GVW
Trailer has its own max weight = plated MAM

Max tow weight is determined by manufacturer and is done with an empty vehicle
There are some 4x4s which are designed to tow 3500 when empty at about 1800 - seriously
I would always recommend that the tow vehicle be heavier than the trailer at the time of towing
So if I would load the trailer up to say 1900kg then the car would also need to weigh 1900kg or more? is that with 'stuff' in the vehicle? or is it that the unladen needs to be more?
 

Nata

New User
Joined
3 May 2021
Messages
2
After the recent poll by perfect11s:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=489592

Many agreed a sticky would be very useful, but the format needed to change to avoid the confusion/arguments.

At the end of the above thread, ROG kindly agreed to help run a Towing Clinic for those who find the laws & limitations as confusing as I did.


Here is an example of how it will work:-

"If a member on here was to provide me with the relevant info then I can say whether the set up is legal or not on either a B or BE licence and WHY

I would need -
1 - What licence they hold - B or BE
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer or if no plate then the load rating on the tyres
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer "


- ROG

"I'll start here first...

1. B+E Licence
2. 2410kg (this is kerbweight/unladen right?)
3. 3450kg (not too sure about this - what does it mean? Max load of vehicle?)
4. 2500kg (Capacity)
5. 1905kg (HB505)
6. 905kg


Thanks ROG. "

- tallyho!

"LEGAL

1 - max vehicle GVW of 3500 (you got 3450) and max trailer MAM of 3500 (you got 1905)
2 - correct - usually listed in handbook
3 - correct - number 2 (2410) with full load of 1040 (2410+1040=3450)
4 - max weight of empty trailer plus the load on it
5 minus 6 1905-905=1000 so 1000 is the max load that can be loaded onto the trailer


5 is much lower than 4 so a fully laden trailler weighing 1905 is well within the max towing capacity of 2500

Your max combination weight would be 5355 with that set up (3450+1905=5355) but you could go up to 5950 if you got a trailer with a MAM of at least 2500 (up to 3500)

ADD - the problem in getting a trailer with a greater MAM could be that it is heavier when empty so getting a 3500 MAM trailer which weighed 1500 empty still only allows you a max payload of 1000 because of the 2500 towing capacity limit for your vehicle

If you are happy with the trailer load capacity of 1000 then great! "

-ROG

Hope that makes sense and you find it useful. Any questions about using the clinic, please PM me so we can keep the clinic running as smoothly as possible.

Useful Links:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

http://www.uktow.com/towing capacity.asp?make=Nissan#tab1

http://www.towinghorsetrailers.co.uk/index.htm

TYRE LOAD RATINGS calculate KGS by multiplying the number of tyres

ROG's thread: http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=475968
Hi , help please it’s all to confusing my car is
Empty weight towing vehicle 1944
Gvw. 3050
Gtw. 3500
Mam trailer. 1550
Unleaded weight of trailer. 1000
 

Nata

New User
Joined
3 May 2021
Messages
2
Hi , help please it’s all to confusing my car is
Empty weight towing vehicle 1944
Gvw. 3050
Gtw. 3500
Mam trailer. 1550
Unleaded weight of trailer. 1000
I have a b class license do I need to take a further driving test , please any advice thank you
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
Hi , help please it’s all to confusing my car is
Empty weight towing vehicle 1944
Gvw. 3050
Gtw. 3500
Mam trailer. 1550
Unleaded weight of trailer. 1000
I have a b class license do I need to take a further driving test , please any advice thank you
That must be a van???
Deffo need a B+E licence
Max you can tow with a B licence is 750kgs plated MAM with a GVW of 3050
 

Pd19

Member
Joined
20 June 2020
Messages
9
Hi, needing to buy a new family car that fits 3 child car seats, has boot space and tows my Bateson Ascot trailer (mostly one 500kg horse, rarely another 450kg pony as well)

Shortlist includes Skoda Octavia Scout 2.0l 4x4 TDI-figures below:

1. B+E license
2. 1451kg Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 2.0 tdi
3. 2096kg
4. 2000kg
5. 2300kg (Bateson Ascot)
6. 925kg

Is this combination legal?
Thank you.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
Hi, needing to buy a new family car that fits 3 child car seats, has boot space and tows my Bateson Ascot trailer (mostly one 500kg horse, rarely another 450kg pony as well)

Shortlist includes Skoda Octavia Scout 2.0l 4x4 TDI-figures below:

1. B+E license
2. 1451kg Skoda Octavia Scout 4x4 2.0 tdi
3. 2096kg
4. 2000kg
5. 2300kg (Bateson Ascot)
6. 925kg

Is this combination legal?
Thank you.
Yes it is legal for B+E licence
Max load for trailer is 1075kg (2000 minus 925)
 
Joined
20 November 2020
Messages
5
Hi Rog, slightly different question, but I thought you'd be a reliable source (I've found so much conflicting information online) - I'm currently a learner b+e driver (i have standard b licence). Can I be supervised by a driver with grandfather rights (passed pre 1997)? Thanks
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
Hi Rog, slightly different question, but I thought you'd be a reliable source (I've found so much conflicting information online) - I'm currently a learner b+e driver (i have standard b licence). Can I be supervised by a driver with grandfather rights (passed pre 1997)? Thanks
YES 100% - your 100 year old granny who still has a licence can do so!
Supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are going to drive it
 
Joined
28 December 2020
Messages
298
Hi ROG
Please could you help me?
Car can tow 1400kg
Trailer unladen weight 860kg
Trailer gross weight 2300kg
Trailer capacity 1400kg
Horse 500kg
I only have B licence

can I tow legally? Do I need to get my (potential) trailer downplated?

thanks in advance
 
Joined
28 December 2020
Messages
298
That is probably the empty weight/mass in service

The GVW is likely to be between 1900 and 2300
Check V5 keeper doc for max permissible weight OR find weight plate hidden in car which is usually under bonnet or in a door frame - the top of the 4 listed numbers is the GVW
The Max permissible mass from the v5 is 2155kg
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,809
Location
LEICESTER
The Max permissible mass from the v5 is 2155kg
Hi ROG
Please could you help me?
Car can tow 1400kg
Trailer unladen weight 860kg
Trailer gross weight 2300kg
Trailer capacity 1400kg
Horse 500kg
I only have B licence

can I tow legally? Do I need to get my (potential) trailer downplated?

thanks in advance
GVW of 2155 leaves max trailer plated MAM of 1345
I think you have a IW HB 505/6 which can only be down plated to 1400 no lower so no good for B licence towing
What you need is a lighter trailer such as a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty and can be down plated to 1345 leaving a max trailer load of 670
 
Joined
28 December 2020
Messages
298
GVW of 2155 leaves max trailer plated MAM of 1345
I think you have a IW HB 505/6 which can only be down plated to 1400 no lower so no good for B licence towing
What you need is a lighter trailer such as a Bateson Derby which is 675 empty and can be down plated to 1345 leaving a max trailer load of 670
Thanks so much for your help ROG. I’m looking at a Bateson Deaville, do you know if that can be downplated sufficiently?
 
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