Welcome to HHO Towing Clinic

sidesaddlegirl

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11 November 2007
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2,594
Location
Wigston, Leicestershire
Rog, I'm getting my 401 trailer this weekend. Any chance that you know of any instructors in Leicester (unless you are one yourself!) that could give me a few lessons to get used to it all! Sorry for posting this here but can't seem to message you :D
 

ROG

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8 January 2010
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8,841
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LEICESTER
Rog, I'm getting my 401 trailer this weekend. Any chance that you know of any instructors in Leicester (unless you are one yourself!) that could give me a few lessons to get used to it all! Sorry for posting this here but can't seem to message you :D
I have helped two leicester members already so it looks like you are number three
I just need my expenses covered and dry weather
Please Email me on my spare account = r0g@live.co.uk

Has the trailer been down plated for your B licence?
 

sidesaddlegirl

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Joined
11 November 2007
Messages
2,594
Location
Wigston, Leicestershire
I have helped two leicester members already so it looks like you are number three
I just need my expenses covered and dry weather
Please Email me on my spare account = r0g@live.co.uk

Has the trailer been down plated for your B licence?
Not yet, once I get it, I was going to ring Ifor and get it done so won't be for a few weeks yet as I need to get my mechanic friend to remove it and fix it back on for me. I will email you when I get home from work as shouldn't really be on H&H during work time, lol :D Thanks so much!!! :D
 

ROG

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8 January 2010
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LEICESTER
Not yet, once I get it, I was going to ring Ifor and get it done so won't be for a few weeks yet as I need to get my mechanic friend to remove it and fix it back on for me. I will email you when I get home from work as shouldn't really be on H&H during work time, lol :D Thanks so much!!! :D
Not got any email - try advanced.driving@live.co.uk
 

alexomahony

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Joined
12 January 2015
Messages
700
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1250kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2250kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 1500kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer - 1200kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 650kg

Am I legal ROG? I'm pretty sure I am according to GOV rules below ...

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:
##drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
##tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg


For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

Thanks x
 

0310Star

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Joined
5 October 2010
Messages
1,228
Rog, I need a bit of advice!

I have just bought a Ford Kuga AWD 2.0 TDCI and thinking of using it for towing. I have a B licence only but OH has licence to tow if B licence is a no.
What weights am I allowed etc? Horse is 550kg.

I am totally new to this towing malarkey, as you could probably tell :p
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
1 - What licence they hold - B
2 - Unladen/empty weight of the towing vehicle - 1250kg
3 - GVW of the towing vehicle 2250kg
4 - GTW and/or towing capacity of the towing vehicle - 1500kg
5 - Plated MAM of the trailer - 1200kg
6 - Unladen/empty weight of the trailer - 650kg

Am I legal ROG? I'm pretty sure I am according to GOV rules below ...

Licences held from 1 January 1997

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:
##drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
##tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined (MAM) weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg


For anything heavier you need to take a category B+E driving test.

Thanks x
I put in what they missed = (MAM)

Perfectly legal on your B licence because the total MAM is 3450 (2250+1200=3450) so below the max of 3500

You can load 550 into the trailer (1200-650=550)

The 650 does seem a little low but if you have confirmed this then ok
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Rog, I need a bit of advice!

I have just bought a Ford Kuga AWD 2.0 TDCI and thinking of using it for towing. I have a B licence only but OH has licence to tow if B licence is a no.
What weights am I allowed etc? Horse is 550kg.

I am totally new to this towing malarkey, as you could probably tell :p
How strange .... your GVW of 2250 is exactly the same as the poster above ... perhaps you both have the same vehicle?

That means the max plated MAM the trailer can have is 1250kg

You need the same trailer that the other member has to get 550 into it BUT it needs to be plated at 1250 not 1200 like theirs because you need a little weight load leeway so that extra 50kg will do that

What is the current plated MAM of your trailer and what is its empty weight?? - perhaps posting what trailer it is might allow me to get that info off the web

OH can sit next to you so you can tow it if its a B+E set up ....
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
 

alexomahony

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Joined
12 January 2015
Messages
700
My vehicle is the Toyota RAV4 - doesn't seem to be rated as a good tow vehicle by the horse community, but loved by the caravanning crews! It tows my trailer and pony very well, up and down and in all weathers, to hunt and for local shows and shows no signs of struggling with anything. Will upgrade if needed, and take trailer test, but until I need to, then I shall not :)

Thank you ROG x
 

alexomahony

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 January 2015
Messages
700
How strange .... your GVW of 2250 is exactly the same as the poster above ... perhaps you both have the same vehicle?

That means the max plated MAM the trailer can have is 1250kg

You need the same trailer that the other member has to get 550 into it BUT it needs to be plated at 1250 not 1200 like theirs because you need a little weight load leeway so that extra 50kg will do that

What is the current plated MAM of your trailer and what is its empty weight?? - perhaps posting what trailer it is might allow me to get that info off the web

OH can sit next to you so you can tow it if its a B+E set up ....
SUPERVISING A B+E LEARNER
In April 2010 new rules were introduced for those supervising certain learner drivers but they only affected those supervising VOCATIONAL categories such as C1 C1+E D1 & D1+E where the supervising driver had those categories given to them for free when they passed a pre 1997 car test.
They do not affect those with a pre 1997 B+E licence who wish to supervise a B+E learner.

All B licence holders have B+E provisional on the paper part of their licence and can tow an empty or loaded trailer on all roads including motorways.

The usual rules apply when a learner is driving -
The supervising driver must be aged over 21
The supervising driver must have held a B+E licence for at least 3 years
L plates must be fitted to the front of the vehicle and the rear of the trailer
Correct insurance for a B+E learner
The supervising driver does not need to be insured unless they are driving
Or you could have a single cheval liberte... I'm sure they're pretty light. If your horse is 550KG, he must be quite big - most of the lighter trailers are pony trailers... mine will only take upto 16hh - my horse is 15hh and between 450-500kg x
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
To alexmahony - As sinclair trailers are no longer trading then you are lucky to have one with a low MAM because they cannot be replated any more

To 0310star - a good trailer for you would be the Bateson Derby at 675 empty because they can be replated for £10 from 1700 to 1250 by contacting Bateson - you remove and send them the plate as well as a tenner then they send you a new plate for you to fix on
 

alexomahony

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Joined
12 January 2015
Messages
700
Mine has been re plated by Wessex for £15. Sinclair was purchased by Pegasus, which was taken over by Wessex. They take responsibility for re plating and are happy to do so.
 

0310Star

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Joined
5 October 2010
Messages
1,228
To alexmahony - As sinclair trailers are no longer trading then you are lucky to have one with a low MAM because they cannot be replated any more

To 0310star - a good trailer for you would be the Bateson Derby at 675 empty because they can be replated for £10 from 1700 to 1250 by contacting Bateson - you remove and send them the plate as well as a tenner then they send you a new plate for you to fix on
Brill, thanks Rog!

So if I had a Bateson Derby and had it replated, I could tow my 550kg horse under my B licence? And my Kuga would be capable of this too?
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Brill, thanks Rog!

So if I had a Bateson Derby and had it replated, I could tow my 550kg horse under my B licence? And my Kuga would be capable of this too?
YES

Assuming I have the GVW correct at 2250 for your Kuga which you can confirm in either of two ways ...
The hidden plate under the bonnet or in a door frame - its the top number of the four
The max permissible mass on the V5 keepers form

If the 2250 is correct then get a Derby down plated to 1250 - at 1250 with an empty weight of 675 that leaves 575 for the max trailer load
 

stevieg

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Joined
29 May 2010
Messages
438
Hi. Brilliant thread on a ridiculously over complicated issue :(

Looking to buy a car to tow an Ifor Williams 510 trailer.

I have two in mind and would appreciate your help with the legalities.

1. Pre 97 licence

First car - Nissan X Trail
2. 1525kg
3. 2050kg
4. 2000kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg

Second car - Mitsubishi Shogun LWB
2. 2300kg
3. 3030kg
4. 3500kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Hi. Brilliant thread on a ridiculously over complicated issue :(

Looking to buy a car to tow an Ifor Williams 510 trailer.

I have two in mind and would appreciate your help with the legalities.

1. Pre 97 licence

First car - Nissan X Trail
2. 1525kg
3. 2050kg
4. 2000kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg

Second car - Mitsubishi Shogun LWB
2. 2300kg
3. 3030kg
4. 3500kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg
First car - max load for trailer = 1000 (2000-1000=1000)

Second car - max load for trailer = 1700 (2700-1000=1700)

You have a B+E so those will be legal
 

ROG

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8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Great. Thank you

What about on a B Licence?
First car - Nissan X Trail
3. 2050kg GVW
4. 2000kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg
For B towing down plate trailer to 1450kg but only leaves a max trailer load of 450kg

Second car - Mitsubishi Shogun LWB
3. 3030kg GVW
4. 3500kg
5. 2700kg
6. 1000kg
Not possible on a B licence because max MAM for trailer is 750kg
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Just following these posts with interest, would I be able to tow a ifor Williams single trailer with 05 Kia sorento, horse weighs 500kg but I only have B entitlement on my driving licence. Been trying to find out but the weights etc have had me confused! Thank you
http://www.autoevolution.com/cars/kia-sorento-2002.html#aeng_kia-sorento-2002-24-16v
GVW 2455kg which only leaves 1045kg plated MAM for a trailer which is not enough for a horse trailer - well, it would be for a minature pony!

You need a vehicle with a GVW around 2100kg
 
Joined
22 January 2015
Messages
10
Hi and thank you so much for this thread. Prospective setup is as follows.

1. I have the B and E licence, test taken before 1997
2. Prospective towing vehicle Saab 95 Vector Tid. This is my regular car, and I want to be able to tow one of my horses with it, on short trips only. We are currently looking at the purchase of a land rover defender to pull both, but this is some way in the future.

Mass in service 1785 kg, no alteration since factory other than tow bar
Max permissible mass 3960kg

Trailer is a Bahill Sportsman, unladen weight 650kg (confirmed on weigh bridge)

Horse weight approximately 600 kg

Saab handbook gives this model a towing capacity of 1800 kg ( they seem to be popular as towing cars for heavy caravans )

This combination would seem to be well within the legal limit for the car - is there anything I'm not taking into account here?

Obviously I don't expect to drive it across a muddy field!

Many thanks.
 

ROG

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Hi and thank you so much for this thread. Prospective setup is as follows.

1. I have the B and E licence, test taken before 1997
2. Prospective towing vehicle Saab 95 Vector Tid. This is my regular car, and I want to be able to tow one of my horses with it, on short trips only. We are currently looking at the purchase of a land rover defender to pull both, but this is some way in the future.

Mass in service 1785 kg, no alteration since factory other than tow bar
Max permissible mass 3960kg

Trailer is a Bahill Sportsman, unladen weight 650kg (confirmed on weigh bridge)

Horse weight approximately 600 kg

Saab handbook gives this model a towing capacity of 1800 kg ( they seem to be popular as towing cars for heavy caravans )

This combination would seem to be well within the legal limit for the car - is there anything I'm not taking into account here?

Obviously I don't expect to drive it across a muddy field!

Many thanks.
Towing capacity = 1800
Horse = 600
Empty trailer = 650

As long as the trailer is plated at 1250 or more then all is ok

If no plate is fitted then the total of the tyre load ratings on each tyre is the MAM
 
Joined
22 January 2015
Messages
10
Towing capacity = 1800
Horse = 600
Empty trailer = 650

As long as the trailer is plated at 1250 or more then all is ok

If no plate is fitted then the total of the tyre load ratings on each tyre is the MAM
Thank you again.
I've only just bought the trailer so will ask them to check the plate. Bahill designed these to carry two 16.2s and I believe the MAM was about 1900kg but that is hearsay from someone else who used to have one. The firm's been out of business for a long time so hard to get original spec sheets. Will now print all of this off and put it in my "folder-to-show-clueless-coppers" which I hope never to need :)
 

ROG

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Joined
8 January 2010
Messages
8,841
Location
LEICESTER
Thank you again.
I've only just bought the trailer so will ask them to check the plate. Bahill designed these to carry two 16.2s and I believe the MAM was about 1900kg but that is hearsay from someone else who used to have one. The firm's been out of business for a long time so hard to get original spec sheets. Will now print all of this off and put it in my "folder-to-show-clueless-coppers" which I hope never to need :)
If the trailer MAM is 1900 and the towing capacity is 1800 then the lower of the two is used as the maximum the trailer can weight when loaded
 
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