went to see youngster. . .why do people do this?

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FAB1

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Ok I'll keep it brief. I'm looking for s youngster to bring on behind my lad. Cue me looking at some young ones round my area. Looking at jumping bloodlines and found a two year old seemed cheap for money asked if any issues and all relevent questions and as only 10 miles away thought worth a look. Got to yard and most gorgeous head poking out of stable beautiful dark bay gelding . Breeder said to go in and help myself. I got in stable and the poor horse had the most awful roach back very obvious absolutely heartbreaking as lad was so lovely I asked breeder and she said he needed to grow that was all. Now I've been around a lot of youngsters and this was awful his spine was raised from literally behind the wither in an arch. it was horrible. I obviously explained why o wouldnt buy him to which she said she had a foal that would suit me she took me around the corner to the two year olds full brother a 6 week old foal with yet another awful roach back but the most lovely personality when I mentioned his back the breeder yet again said ah he'll grow into himself. I went home feeling really sorry for both horses only to see the advertiser then changed her advert to a lower price and put lowered due to timewasters?? I do not consider I wasted her time and I can actually ignore that. But why do people continue to breed a pair that clearly throw a fault and think its ok. Admittedly she wasnt a registered breeder just a 'for fun' in her words but why do people do this. I know a pointless thread but I'm so worried about these two I want to have them just so I can look after them but I also dont want to endorse her so that she can breed more and think it acceptable. I feel so awful for them they are so young and quite severely disfigured. Sorry marathon post but just had to vent somewhere.
 
Sadly, that is not unusual in the breeding of domestic livestock. People breed for all sorts of reasons and seldom with the single minded purpose of improving their livestock. But then love is blind.:rolleyes:
 
:( Shame, but fortunate that you didn't drive miles to view I suppose.

I wonder if the sire and dam, or one or the other, had an obvious roach too, you obviously saw the mare with the foal, what was her back like?

Perhaps, just perhaps, the breeder was hoping that the roach back of the first colt was one of those unfortunate things but not necessarily hereditary and decided to risk trying the pairing again.

I had a beautiful, very well bred, correct mare bred to my horse, stunning foal, dreadful long back pasterns, and I mean LONG pasterns. Neither sire, nor dam have that. So, the owner thought as above, maybe it was a one off, bred the mare back, got an even more stunning colt, with the same long pasterns :( Both colts are in work now and their pasterns haven't caused any problems. The mare was bred to a different stallion and again, long pasterns - so it was obviously the mare passing this on :( By looking at her you wouldn't have known though. The owner does not intend to breed from her again as far as I know.

Fortunately youngsters aren't exactly hard to find, so I am sure you will come across just the right one sometime. Good Luck. :)
 
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I met a broodmare called Lucky Dip as her withers took a 90° angle to the centre of her back. Truly awful back conformation and on hope of a normal work life outside of racing. She's passed it to the last 4 foals i know of so far...
 
I know which youngster you went to see, it did look very roachy in the photo too though- did you not see pic before you went? The dam isnt very roachy though? I dont remember her being so anyway- are they full siblings?
 
I personally wouldn't rebreed a mare who threw a dodgy looking foal but as mentioned above it does take at least a couple of foals to see what the mare will throw and many breeders will take a risk to find out. In the case above, unless the mare is bred to a different stallion next time no-one will know whether it is the mare or the stallion who is throwing the roach back.

I owned a little horse with a roach back for a number of years. She's still doing the rounds as a beginner ride horse and is loved by everyone who owns her. She must be about 17 or 18 now and she's still going strong (she was at my farm last week for bringing back into riding after the winter off), a total little trooper. Many people don't have a problem with horses with roach backs and many horses with roach backs continue to live a good decent life.
 
Spring Feather said:
I personally wouldn't rebreed a mare who threw a dodgy looking foal but as mentioned above it does take at least a couple of foals to see what the mare will throw and many breeders will take a risk to find out. In the case above, unless the mare is bred to a different stallion next time no-one will know whether it is the mare or the stallion who is throwing the roach back.

I owned a little horse with a roach back for a number of years. She's still doing the rounds as a beginner ride horse and is loved by everyone who owns her. She must be about 17 or 18 now and she's still going strong (she was at my farm last week for bringing back into riding after the winter off), a total little trooper. Many people don't have a problem with horses with roach backs and many horses with roach backs continue to live a good decent life.
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This is true ^^, but still no excuse to keep breeding incorrect horses. The amateur/hobby breeder strikes again!
 
Just to say its the 7th foal from this mare and have since found that there are at least two of those that had same fault although aparently not quite as bad but bad enough. Dame didn't have the problem from what i could see in fact she was lovely - faracat i didn't actually see the picture before i went but i have since found an ad with pictures added so will send you PM - i don't want to witch hunt this person but i just found it so inhumane to keep breeding and those poor horses have a lifetime to have to try and live in this way - it has made me cross knowing there are other foals though - as someone else said once no one can really help - twice you are pushing your luck and but more is just silly - aparently the reason being is that the stallion used was a friends and therefore free to breed from :(
 
Thanks for the PM. :)

That's a proper roach, not up to Miss Camel's standards (the famous roached friesian) but he's not going to grow out of it. :( However, many roach backed horses can have a useful ridden life as long as the roach isn't too bad and therefore prevents a good saddle fit. It's certainly stronger than a dipped back of the same degree.

ETA
aparently the reason being is that the stallion used was a friends and therefore free to breed from
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That's just stupid.
 
I totally agree Faracat - about some roachbacks being able to grow out and with gentle work some even improve and as you say are able to be ridden with specially fitted or well fitted saddles but as you say i couldn't see this poor lad growing out of it and as i say the foal only being a few weeks old you could already see that he didn't have a the usual croup high bottom to enable him to grow - i do slightly worry thought that if someone viewed the foal its not as obvious at this stage to see that he has the problem obviously after seeing his full brother it was a lot easier to see the problem but still I hope someone doesn't buy the foal and get a shock. I just feel bad for them - as i say not wishing to witch hunt this person but does make me very sad that such lovely horses should have to live with this because someone wanted to 'have a go' at breeding.
 
Well Cortez, I disagree. Don't tar and feather hobby breeders that most of the time make informed decisions. Hobby or Amatuer means not making a living out of said pursuit. Not completely clueless. You think pro breeders make correct decisions? Not all. Do you think they all step away from hereditary factors? Think again. They just claim there's no evidence it is passed on.

In this case obviously one doesn't have a clue. However there are some jumper stallion lines floating around that have a pre dispotition for a roach back, however it's slight. But if you have a mare and no idea what's in her pedigree bar what's in front of you, good luck. Mind you we wouldn't call it roach in those circles, more a tendency to throw a "straighter" back. So yeah the pros play around a lot too.

Sad for this foal and siblings I guess. Not much of a bright future when so many out there that are correct. Unless horse is out doing a job well without issues.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Well Cortez, I disagree. Don't tar and feather hobby breeders that most of the time make informed decisions. Hobby or Amatuer means not making a living out of said pursuit. Not completely clueless. You think pro breeders make correct decisions? Not all. Do you think they all step away from hereditary factors? Think again. They just claim there's no evidence it is passed on.
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I agree with this - I would class myself as a beginner / amatuer / hobby breeder - my mare has just had her and my first foal. At their first show at the weekend we were complemented on the improvment on the mare's (minor) faults. This is something I specifically went out to improve on and was very careful about picking the stallion with the mare's faults in mind to produce as correct a foal as possible.

There are idiots out there who don't think about what they're doing and being a pro or a hobby breeder doesn't mean anything.
 
mynutmeg said:
There are idiots out there who don't think about what they're doing and being a pro or a hobby breeder doesn't mean anything.
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Absolutely, look what "pro breeders" have done to some breeds.

What happened to the classical Friesian for instance, or arabs with the extreme dry heads, or Quarter Horses that have got bigger arses than a good beef bull, or miniature horse breeds where conformational issues are rampant in the quest for a smaller animal. Is that good or bad? Depends on which side of the fence you are standing I guess. Dog breeders are worse than horse breeders.

To condemn all small/backyard breeders is not fair at all, I am a backyard breeder, my horses live in my backyard, but I defy any one to say that I produce bad animals, conceived without any other thought than here's a mare, here's a stallion. The same can be said for countless small breeders.
 
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