What are your minimum requirements for a Trainer / Instructor?

[meardsall_millie]

This thread is inspired by a conversation I had with a friend earlier after seeing an advert for a clinic and being somewhat surprised by the level/experience of a 'trainer' and what they were planning to do....

What are your minimum requirements when looking for a Trainer / Instructor / Coach?

Do they need to be qualified - to what level?
Do they need to show ongoing professional development?
Are you happy with a professional with no qualifications and if so what do you class as 'professional' and what sort of level would they be riding/competing at?
Would you be happy with someone with 'experience' but no qualifications - what would this need to be?
What about someone who has produced horses to a certain level - is that sufficient, if so to what level?
Any other permutations I haven't included?!

Do your requirements change depending on the discipline you're looking for instruction in?

Any other thoughts??!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Mmm. Personally I would be very much inclined to rely upon personal recommendations. I'm one of these people who TBH couldn't give a stuff about paper qualifications, BUT if people DO have them, to me that's an indication of the level they're accustomed to teaching at, i.e. I wouldn't go to a BHSI for a bog-standard riding lesson for a complete novice!!!

My trainer is someone I went to school with. She HAS got paper qualifications, and has regularly competed to a high level in an equine discipline and has produced horses both for herself and others. She currently mentors someone in this discipline and is known in the area as being good for sorting our problem horses and starting youngsters.

I think one's requirements WOULD change depending on the discipline you're working in. But basically whatever the discipline my requirements would be that I would look for someone who had an innate sense of what both myself and the horse were capable of doing plus the ability to challenge that ability to the limit of our current proficiency, plus that little bit extra, but without destroying confidence of both horse and rider combination. Its a gift, and not many have it, and its a little bit nebulous and can't really be summed up by paper qualifications......although people with the necessary qualifications DO have it (and others patently don't!!).

Sorry, hope I'm making sense.

 

[cptrayes]

I want them to have competed successfully at the level that I am aiming to reach. I am not concerned whether they have any qualifications.

 

[ann-jen]

I use one regular and one irregular dressage coach. The regular coach competed to advanced medium and now is a BD judge (not sure what level!). The irregular coach competed to the equivalent of advanced in Germany but no longer rides/judges etc.
My jump instructor was a Bsja accredited coach but she now teaches abroad so much she can no longer teach me. Am gutted and now looking for a new coach. I approached a few people and have a lesson planned with a guy who has done his training with the old coach but as far as I'm aware he's not competed to any great level but hopefully teaches along the same lines as my old coach. Time will tell.
I think an ability to teach, whether through training or being a naturally good communicator is often better than competitive experience really. So fingers crossed this new guy will work out well!

 

[meardsall_millie]

I want them to have competed successfully at the level that I am aiming to reach. I am not concerned whether they have any qualifications.

I think an ability to teach, whether through training or being a naturally good communicator is often better than competitive experience really. So fingers crossed this new guy will work out well!

Now these are key points to me - just because someone can ride, how can we be sure they can teach?

I can ride reasonably well but I don't feel that automatically means I can teach others to do the same (how often do we hear about top riders being rubbish trainers?).

I also have formal teaching qualifications and spent a lot of time being taught how to teach - there's more to it than standing in the middle of the school and shouting at people, which comes as a surprise to many people when they start out!

 

[LEC]

Do they need to be qualified - to what level?
I am a massive fan of UKCC3 as never had a bad experience with anyone who has done it and having seen the process I have a lot of respect for those who hold it especially in the disciplines as Eventing is seriously tough to get. I am more wary of BHS but its because it is so hit and miss with AI and then I would look at their competitive experience, other clients and having seen them teach.

Do they need to show ongoing professional development? Yes its vital - I want them to be excited by teaching and always looking for that extra tool in the box that might make a difference. Things change all the time and the sports move on. I noticed my regular trainer take a huge upward curve when doing her UKCC3.

Are you happy with a professional with no qualifications and if so what do you class as 'professional' and what sort of level would they be riding/competing at?
I have sessions with someone who had no quals but an amazing CV (Sjed on teams) and she has got better and better at teaching. On the whole I tend to go for qualified trainers but I know this trainer pretty well and she has amazing facilities which is why I have stuck with it.

What about someone who has produced horses to a certain level - is that sufficient, if so to what level? Communication is vital for me so if they can communicate and teach then I would be open to it.

Do your requirements change depending on the discipline you're looking for instruction in? Nope

My feeling is not enough people watch someone teach, do their homework about their background, look at recommendations, the type of clients they teach regularly and really think about their goals and what they want to achieve. I think long and hard before going to someone new as I know spending even an hour with the wrong person can set me back.

 

[charlie76]

Interesting thread. I am qualified to teach with BHS teaching qualifications at Senior Coach level and also UKCC level three. The way you are trained to teach for the BHS exams is totally different to training to be a coach. The BHS exams at PTT level and to an extent BHSIT level are more about directing the rider whereas the UKCC encourages you to get the pupil to learn for themselves and for you to understand different learning styles in order to gain the most out of our pupil.
For me, the mix of both has been great. I can adapt my teaching style and method depending on the people I teach. I teach private lesuire riders totally differently to competition riders. I then have a totally different style when teaching clinic and groups , it then changes again for nervous riders and beginners.
A good trainer needs to be able to adapt.
From my own point of view. I have had lessons from some of the top people in the country. One top dressage rider, who is a fab rider, was a totally useless teacher. Another top dressage rider was far too aggressive and had no empathy for the rider.
I have had other well known riders that have given me brilliant lessons, however, most , if not all, of these riders also have a UKCC... or BHS........ After their names so they have been taught HOW to teach and how to structure the lesson.

I would be happy to have lessons from some one who is not qualified if they could deliver the goods. I also have no issues with having lessons from some one who is not competing at the level I want to, you don't have to compete a a certain level to have a great set of eyes from the ground.
I took my BHS Senior Coach and passed it easily , I taught to Advanced/ psg level on the flat, fox hunter over fences. I have never competed at that level as I have never had the horse to do so but by watching others train, asking questions, studying the riders and horses from the ground and learning as much as I can I was able to help and improve the horse and rider.

I also continue to learn, attend as many demos as I can and read as much as I can to keep up to date with rule changes, new training methods etc.

 

[TarrSteps]

Now these are key points to me - just because someone can ride, how can we be sure they can teach?

I can ride reasonably well but I don't feel that automatically means I can teach others to do the same (how often do we hear about top riders being rubbish trainers?).

I also have formal teaching qualifications and spent a lot of time being taught how to teach - there's more to it than standing in the middle of the school and shouting at people, which comes as a surprise to many people when they start out!

Very true. They are virtually unrelated skills and, aside from the issue of training/experience, there is the simple fact that not everyone who has aptitude in one area has similar aptitude in the other. I would even argue there are many very good horsemen who are, to put it tactfully, not that great with people. They are notably intolerant of people who do not grasp things equine or are able to put instructions into practice at the same rate they do.

I will say, I have changed my tune somewhat. I used to think novice riders should have the most experienced help they could have access to but I have reassessed this and now think that the farther a rider gets from a stage, the harder it is for the rider to teach people who are still in it without constant practice and conscious thought. They don't even know what they don't know anymore.

I do not get as much instruction as I would like now for logistical reasons as much as anything, but have had masses over my life time. I look for someone who coaches well. If they also ride to a high level, fantastic, but I have been very well taught by people who were not necessarily particularly successful themselves for all sorts of reasons. I think I differentiate from the sort of collaborative help I would get from regular "eyes on the ground" and occasional visits to very high powered people to address specific issues, raise the game etc. For the latter I would probably pick someone very high level even if the teaching was a bit suspect (if I couldn't have both) so long as I felt I could steer the instruction the way I wanted it to go.

I really don't agree with people going to a huge list of different people, although differing viewpoints are very useful and every instructor has strengths and weaknesses. But I do think you have to have a system before you can start tinkering with it.

Re qualifications, I think they are very useful but, rather like the riding, only in concert with practical experience and proven ability. Some people are very good at taking tests. But yes, teaching is a learned skill and I don't think there are too many prodigies around. (Although, believe it or not, they do exist!)

 

[Sol]

Mostly, I look for someone I can communicate with. I don't like to be 'told what to do' and just expected to follow orders. That doesn't teach me to ride, it teaches me to follow orders (something some may argue I need teaching more about how to do ) I like to feel able to discuss how things are going/feeling throughout the lesson, not just for 5mins at the end, AND ask questions outside of lessons if necessary. I'm not overly keen on instructors who are only open to their own ideas, regardless of whether that's best for the horse/rider, there needs to be give & take - I've had some unpleasant rides where instructors just haven't wanted to see that that way does NOT suit that particular horse. I do like an instructor who gives a lot of specific information & explanation too... not just 'jump this' or 'circle at B'
I don't think I've ever asked about qualifications though... but I did find my current instructor by searching for EE instructors, as all of the EE people seemed to be on the same wavelength & their teaching methods seemed likely to suit me. Seems I was right anyway as I think my current instructor is fab

 

[ann-jen]

Just wanted to add.... The two dressage/flat instructors I use, I love because they always teach in a way that makes things easy for the horse. Jenny is now 18, and not a horse that finds dressage easy. She was bred to SJ and finds dressage quite hard. She is mildly arthritic generally now, and both instructors get me working on exercises that get her working in the correct way by using a series of exercises that make it easy for her .... Difficult to explain what I mean..... But I also had lessons at one point with a "name" from dressage and she just kept trying to force the horse to go in a way she found physically difficult, which just upset the horse and me! The instructors I use now, still end up getting me and the horse to go correctly but instead find a way that makes it easy for her.... Hope you understand what I'm getting at!
Edited to add the old mare has a few points at elementary despite her arthritis etc so the method must work!

 

[Carefreegirl]

Qualifications aren't important to me. Experience at the discipline is important. Someone who lets you and the horse have breathers during the lesson, sounds obvious but I've seen a few who don't.
My jumping trainer is Nick Turner so I think he's just about experienced enough to teach at my level :biggrin3:

My flat instructor wouldn't have a clue if she has any qualifications on paper but she's a damn good teacher. My previous flat instructor had no qualifications on paper but rides at PSG and is also very kind to the horses and encouraging to the rider as are Ginny and Nick.

 

[JVB]

Having just started this process and going through a very gradual career change I'm going to be doing the following as I feel it will give me the best all round offering. It sounds a lot but I know myself and by working through a system it will guide me and keep me motivated, each bit of paper means I'm one step nearer to being self employed, my ultimate goal. I really enjoy teaching and am more of a coach, than a teacher so will probably find the BHS stuff harder than the UKCC.

I also think that the BHS does need changing, which it does seem to be starting to do but if I can impact on that then all to the good and the only way to improve something is to be involved with it.

Already got PGCE and taught in school
Working through BHS up to BHSI, will plan to become an assessor
Plan to become listed BD judge
Work thorough UKCC in SJ and DR
Will be working to become more competitive rider/ get reputation for training horses/ backing etc
Will be looking to build own yard, have schooling liveries etc

I'm giving myself about 10 years to do all this so feel it will be achievable, main plan is to teach freelance and get part time work as an equine lecturer so I'll earn enough and have permanent work.

I prefer the idea of the UKCC but think most people still recognize the BHS as the main one, I've not had a bad experience as yet but who knows this may change.

Weirdly, with instructors I choose, I tend to go for those who have competed at a high level, are quite demanding and that I learn from and get on well with. I'll give most a try and continue with those I click with and feel I learn something with each time. I've never really asked about qualifications!

 

[BeckyD]

To be perfectly honest, as long as someone has something to teach me, then I am happy to learn from them (true to all walks of life, not just riding, for me).

Having said that, my flat instructor is a BE Coach and a BHSI (she is a Chief Examiner for the BHS up to BHSI etc). She is also FEI ground jury up to 4*, and does a lot of judging (list 2A). She is a great all-round equestrian coach and has helped me on so many levels in the last 11 months.

My jumping instructor I actually don't know whether she has any teaching qualifications; it somehow seems irrelevant as she is such a good teacher! Again, she has taught me a lot, and not just abouot jumping.

So I will learn from whoever can teach me. I learn from friends as well. Someone doesn't have to have competed to a high standard to be able to impart a few words of wisdom.

I do know what you mean though - there's a local person who gives lessons and I have to wonder why anyone would pay the price that is charged; no teaching quals that I can discern, no teaching skills that I have observed and not competed to any level of note.

 

[Horsemad12]

Qualifications don't matter to me but I would want someone who had competed to a level above rather than below me.

I got held back / bad advice from an instructor that was great when I got my youngster and he really set me on the road to eventing (Had the coaching qualifications and was a FAB coach) but had not evented to BE Nov and did not understand the questions (and width of fences at that level).

Since then I have had lessons from someone who has evented to 3* but has no formal teaching qualifications to someone who is a fellow of the BHS. Both have helped my riding significantly but in different ways.

I think key areas are results, recommendations and that the style of instruction works for you and your horse.

Of course those with the qualifications will say that they are important, why would they do them if not and it does provide a standard and open many doors with organisations such as PC who I am sure insist on them. For my work I would say exactly the same, you need qualifications to open the door, but once you have them it is the person you are that makes you good or bad at what you do.

 

[PolarSkye]

See answers in red:

This thread is inspired by a conversation I had with a friend earlier after seeing an advert for a clinic and being somewhat surprised by the level/experience of a 'trainer' and what they were planning to do....

What are your minimum requirements when looking for a Trainer / Instructor / Coach? - Knowledgeable, experienced to at least a couple of levels above our current level (as in competing, not just teaching), a good communicator, creative

Do they need to be qualified - to what level? No
Do they need to show ongoing professional development? Yes
Are you happy with a professional with no qualifications and if so what do you class as 'professional' and what sort of level would they be riding/competing at? Yes - a professional is (to me) someone who makes their living training, competes (affiliated) to a high standard, and (this is a bonus) has also run their own training/competition yard producing horses for other people - for me, high standard (at dressage, for example, would be PSG)
Would you be happy with someone with 'experience' but no qualifications - what would this need to be?
What about someone who has produced horses to a certain level - is that sufficient, if so to what level? Experience and no qualifications is fine - but they do need to be able to teach/train . . . by way of example, we've had jump lessons with three international event riders . . . Piggy French, Dan Jocelyn and Paul Tapner . . . while Piggy French is an incredible rider and a true professional, she isn't a natural teacher . . . Paul and Dan, on the other hand were motivational, inspirational, inventive, creative and we learned a lot.
Any other permutations I haven't included?!

Do your requirements change depending on the discipline you're looking for instruction in? No

Any other thoughts??!

 

[Jango]

I think personality is hugely important when choosing an instructor, someone can be a good teacher, experienced, qualified and everything but if you don't get on what's the point! My current instructor is fab, encouraging and enthusiastic when we get it right but totally willing to say when it's gone badly wrong. She used to work with horses professionally and is an AI but now just has her own horse and teaches in her free time. Her attention to detail is amazing and I really enjoy my lessons and come out feeling motivated (and very tired!). She has competed to Intermediate eventing and Ad-Med dressage and as we're at Nov/Elem dressage that's plenty for us. Competition experience is more important to me than qualifications and riding ability is important as it really helps for the instructor to be able to hop on for 5 mins and help with any issues.

A previous instructor was technically very good and was improving me and my horse, however I left every lesson in tears because she made me feel terrible about myself. Whenever I questioned anything she'd shout and put me down, whereas my current instructor is happy to explain things in a different way or have a discussion about something. I also had a lesson last year from quite a well known dressage rider and that was bad because it was just constant 'do x' 'good' 'do y' 'good' and I felt we didn't learn anything.

 

[Applegirl]

Totally agree with you. The BHS exams are so out of date. Shame that the Pony Club and Riding Clubs did not develop their own coaching system.

 

[Lolo]

Totally agree with you. The BHS exams are so out of date. Shame that the Pony Club and Riding Clubs did not develop their own coaching system.

The PC has... Well, it has a program in place with exams and training days that are accessible to you when you've passed your B test...

 

[Cortez]

I have BHS qualifications, and I honestly think they are useless; I don't teach the BHS "Way" because I have enough experience to know that it is not going to produce the results that an advanced rider needs. For a novice rider I actually think that it's even worse, because if they are taught in this way they will ingrain habits which will hold them back should they wish to advance. So, no: paper qualifications are not necessary. What I do look for is experience, that they should be able to ride and train to a higher level than I am training my horse at. Effectively this means that the instructor should be fairly OLD! I object to classes of beginners being taught by "qualified" teenagers; they simply do not have the experience and time under their belts.