What are your thoughts on this - vet related.

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BBH

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Good friend took her dog to the vet for his injections and asked to book in for teeth cleaning . The vet said well cleaning his teeth will be £313 and we'll need to do bloods but if you sign up to this pet plan ( leaflet given ) teeth are covered. We won't do anything tonight but have a read and come back.

Friend was in there 2 mins and went to reception to be charged 38 for a consultation . When she said I haven't consulted she was told yuk took up the vets time didn't you , ?

Friends husband livid when she got home and rang up to question cost for 5 mins in vet room.

Reception told him that if they took the pet plan iout they would waive the 38.

Is this ethical and / or reasonable do you think
 
BBH said:
Good friend took her dog to the vet for his injections and asked to book in for teeth cleaning . The vet said well cleaning his teeth will be £313 and we'll need to do bloods but if you sign up to this pet plan ( leaflet given ) teeth are covered. We won't do anything tonight but have a read and come back.

Friend was in there 2 mins and went to reception to be charged 38 for a consultation . When she said I haven't consulted she was told yuk took up the vets time didn't you , ?

Friends husband livid when she got home and rang up to question cost for 5 mins in vet room.

Reception told him that if they took the pet plan iout they would waive the 38.

Is this ethical and / or reasonable do you think
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Not ethical or reasonable in my opinion but then vets are really just businesses. Why would a dog need his teeth cleaning anyway ? Or is that just me ?
 
What was the breakdown of their vaccine charge?
A health check must be performed prior to giving the vaccine. Some vets include the consult fee in the vaccine charge, some vets charge these both separately.

Lots of vets do the payment plan thing now, not heard of one that completely covers dentistry, usually 10% off or something. Sounds like they might be a bit pushy about their payment plan and the receptionists response probably wasn't the best!
 
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I'd expect to pay a consultation fee for a pre-op assessment, yes. No idea about the pet plan, lots of vets run a monthly payment scheme but it's usually for preventative care like boosters/flea/worming, I've never heard of one that would cover dental work.
 
Consultations with my vet tend to be charged at £16 or thirty something. For basic, swift consultations, we are charged the lower rate (I haven't yet been charged the higher, not even for assessment and prescription regarding a false pregnancy!). I'd change vets if at all possible. The hard sell and barter are not ethical practice, in my opinion.
 
Isn't the consultation cost for the appointment to have the injections? I have always been charged for the appointment when mine have had theirs. If I were in your friend's position I would ring round some other vets and get a quote for doing the teeth over the phone. I should think it costs that much because they have to give quite a bit of sedation, a bit like a minor op. I think we paid similar to have our elderly cats teeth done.
 
So was the £38 charge on top of the fee for vaccination ? Like black cob I have never heard of a pet plan covering dentals. Most dentals need a GA and I would expect pre op bloods to be taken with a dog of that age.
 
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She didn't have the vaccinations the vet said they weren't due straight away so read the leaflet and come back. The visit consisted of the discussion outlined in my original post.
 
Is the pet plan a health plan or actualy PetPlan the insurance?

Now, fair enough she saw the vet so could be charged a consult fairly - the dog was examined - did she book for vacc or for a health check ?
Hwoever if the petplan is the insurance company that is fraud
 
pet plan (2 words not petplan)

I imagine it is similar to our medical cash plan we have through work (medicash) and some denplans pay x amount per month and you can claim x amount for vaccinations, x for dental, x for physio etc etc.
They don't worry about pre exsting conditions.
 
So from what i can gather ....feel free to correct me if i have misinterpreted

....your friend booked an appointment with the vet to have her pet examined as she has been worried about its dental health ....
the vet examined the pet and determined that yes it needed a dental,that their were no other health issues apparent on exam that would make an dental a bad idea-heart murmur,abdominal mass etc .
The dog is older so bloods were recommended in case of underlying illness that cannot be found on exam prior to the anaesthetic,
vet provided an estimate on how much the anaesthetic and dental would cost. She was also given alternative solutions for payment in the pet plan scheme that the practice provides and provided information on this for your friend to read up on and decide if as it might be a good value in their case.
The dog wasn't due for vaccinations so did not recieve any on the day and it sounds like they would have been discounted if she went for the pet scheme.

But your friend resents having to pay the vet for the clinical exam and the consultation as her pet was healthy so the exam only took a few minutes.....

And your friend is suspecious now as the practice as willing to waiver their exam fee of she is decides to sign up for their health pet plan....which sounds like very good value tbh..

So the real question how much was your friend expecting to pay for the consultation?
Nothing? or a reduced fee because the pet is healthy and wasn't due any vaccines...

I am bias by the way as I'm a vet...

I would have charged a consultation fee in this situation as well. Difference is my practice would not have offered to waive it regardless of complaints...as this devalues my time,history taking and clinical exam in the clients eyes and makes it seem like a clinical exam is not of equal if not more importance than the act of giving a vaccination... it may have only taken 5 minutes....but if the exam was preformed by a vet then yes,you will be asked to pay full consultation costs for it. If the consultation had found a heart murmur/abdominal mass other issues then it would have taken a lot longer and the charge would have been the same...
Your paying for the medical knowledge and expertise to access a dog as healthy etc not the time it takes to preform.
 
Aru said:
I am bias by the way as I'm a vet...

I would have charged a consultation fee in this situation as well. Difference is my practice would not have offered to waive it regardless of complaints...as this devalues my time,history taking and clinical exam in the clients eyes and makes it seem like a clinical exam is not of equal if not more importance than the act of giving a vaccination... it may have only taken 5 minutes....but if the exam was preformed by a vet then yes,you will be asked to pay full consultation costs for it. If the consultation had found a heart murmur/abdominal mass other issues then it would have taken a lot longer and the charge would have been the same...
Your paying for the medical knowledge and expertise to access a dog as healthy etc not the time it takes to preform.
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I wish i worked for vet that felt as you do it makes many clients want to bypass reception and be rude to reception staff in order to speak to the Boss as they then get money off and makes us all including the vet look undervalued.
 
Aru said:
So from what i can gather ....feel free to correct me if i have misinterpreted

....your friend booked an appointment with the vet to have her pet examined as she has been worried about its dental health ....
the vet examined the pet and determined that yes it needed a dental,that their were no other health issues apparent on exam that would make an dental a bad idea-heart murmur,abdominal mass etc .
The dog is older so bloods were recommended in case of underlying illness that cannot be found on exam prior to the anaesthetic,
vet provided an estimate on how much the anaesthetic and dental would cost. She was also given alternative solutions for payment in the pet plan scheme that the practice provides and provided information on this for your friend to read up on and decide if as it might be a good value in their case.
The dog wasn't due for vaccinations so did not recieve any on the day and it sounds like they would have been discounted if she went for the pet scheme.

But your friend resents having to pay the vet for the clinical exam and the consultation as her pet was healthy so the exam only took a few minutes.....

And your friend is suspecious now as the practice as willing to waiver their exam fee of she is decides to sign up for their health pet plan....which sounds like very good value tbh..

So the real question how much was your friend expecting to pay for the consultation?
Nothing? or a reduced fee because the pet is healthy and wasn't due any vaccines...

I am bias by the way as I'm a vet...

I would have charged a consultation fee in this situation as well. Difference is my practice would not have offered to waive it regardless of complaints...as this devalues my time,history taking and clinical exam in the clients eyes and makes it seem like a clinical exam is not of equal if not more importance than the act of giving a vaccination... it may have only taken 5 minutes....but if the exam was preformed by a vet then yes,you will be asked to pay full consultation costs for it. If the consultation had found a heart murmur/abdominal mass other issues then it would have taken a lot longer and the charge would have been the same...
Your paying for the medical knowledge and expertise to access a dog as healthy etc not the time it takes to preform.
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What's written above.

Aru, I am not a vet, but I think the same as you, although you were much more eloquent and thought provoking in your response than I would be :)
 
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BBH said:
Good friend took her dog to the vet for his injections and asked to book in for teeth cleaning . The vet said well cleaning his teeth will be £313 and we'll need to do bloods but if you sign up to this pet plan ( leaflet given ) teeth are covered. We won't do anything tonight but have a read and come back.

Friend was in there 2 mins and went to reception to be charged 38 for a consultation . When she said I haven't consulted she was told yuk took up the vets time didn't you , ?

Friends husband livid when she got home and rang up to question cost for 5 mins in vet room.

Reception told him that if they took the pet plan iout they would waive the 38.

Is this ethical and / or reasonable do you think
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It sounds to me and from what you say, as though the vet had a look at the dog and gave a quote (£313 jeez!) for the teeth to be cleaned and then suggested a 'pet plan' system what ever that may be. Two things occur to me, firstly had the owner of the dog 'phoned the vet's practice and received the same quote/plan, would they still have been charged £38 and secondly, if the vet didn't actually do any work bar give a quote, I fail to see how there could be any service supplied which was chargeable.

Love the line about 'You took up the vet's time' and so were presumably charged! :) I've never yet seen any vet at the appointed time and often sit about waiting for half an hour, perhaps they should pay my charges for my time!

Would a 12 yo dog have dental work done under a GA? If so, that wouldn't be ethical. With a dog of such advanced years, what would they be blood testing for? With a senior dog, and lets imagine that bloods reveal something unpleasant or underlying, then the often suggested treatment is so intrusive as to more than touch on the question of ethics. Vets have to earn a living, we know, but far too many put the interests of their businesses before the well being of their patients, or their owners.

What's Pet Plan, does anyone know?

Ethical? That would be arguable. Reasonable, not if they expect a client to return it isn't. If I take a car to a garage and ask for a quote for new tyres, do they charge me for that? You can tell your friend's OH that I'm with him.

Alec.
 
Lol thankyou Alec

Personally my friends are horrified that after 24yrs of loyal custom a small conversation was charged at full rate . She didn't even look at the dog never mind it's teeth. They would have been better staying at reception and asking how much for a teeth clean .

And yes I do think some vets are a money squeezing operation particularly the big practises. I myself was charged 43 for a packet of anti sceptic wipes for my dog before I got wise.
 
Alec Swan said:
It sounds to me and from what you say, as though the vet had a look at the dog and gave a quote (£313 jeez!) for the teeth to be cleaned and then suggested a 'pet plan' system what ever that may be. Two things occur to me, firstly had the owner of the dog 'phoned the vet's practice and received the same quote/plan, would they still have been charged £38 and secondly, if the vet didn't actually do any work bar give a quote, I fail to see how there could be any service supplied which was chargeable.

Love the line about 'You took up the vet's time' and so were presumably charged! :) I've never yet seen any vet at the appointed time and often sit about waiting for half an hour, perhaps they should pay my charges for my time!

Would a 12 yo dog have dental work done under a GA? If so, that wouldn't be ethical. With a dog of such advanced years, what would they be blood testing for? With a senior dog, and lets imagine that bloods reveal something unpleasant or underlying, then the often suggested treatment is so intrusive as to more than touch on the question of ethics. Vets have to earn a living, we know, but far too many put the interests of their businesses before the well being of their patients, or their owners.

What's Pet Plan, does anyone know?

Ethical? That would be arguable. Reasonable, not if they expect a client to return it isn't. If I take a car to a garage and ask for a quote for new tyres, do they charge me for that? You can tell your friend's OH that I'm with him.

Alec.
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Yes dogs of that age have dentals all the time and yes it is ethical, what is not ethical is leaving them with rotten teeth, the infection in the mouth can and does effect the heart amongst other things.
one of my dogs had a dental this year at the age of 14yrs, he and his kennel mate (16yrs) had bloods run and nothing alarming was revealed on either of them-with the bloods being clear the dog that needed the dental had it rather than spending his last months on antibiotics to deal with an painful infection in his mouth. medicine is advancing all the time and whilst you may not choose to welcome all of it (I don't) you cannot ignore it.
 
it sounds like the vet should have examined the dog, you cannot suggest a dental if the animal has not been examined, why did your friend not check before booking the appointment to see if vaccs were due? it would have meant noones time was wasted
 
The simple answer is just to change vets, that's what I would do.

My vet regularly sits in my kitchen drinking coffee and shooting the breeze for 2 or 3 hrs - perhaps I should charge him for taking up my time.
 
Alec Swan said:
It sounds to me and from what you say, as though the vet had a look at the dog and gave a quote (£313 jeez!) for the teeth to be cleaned and then suggested a 'pet plan' system what ever that may be. Two things occur to me, firstly had the owner of the dog 'phoned the vet's practice and received the same quote/plan, would they still have been charged £38 and secondly, if the vet didn't actually do any work bar give a quote, I fail to see how there could be any service supplied which was chargeable.

Love the line about 'You took up the vet's time' and so were presumably charged! :) I've never yet seen any vet at the appointed time and often sit about waiting for half an hour, perhaps they should pay my charges for my time!

Would a 12 yo dog have dental work done under a GA? If so, that wouldn't be ethical. With a dog of such advanced years, what would they be blood testing for? With a senior dog, and lets imagine that bloods reveal something unpleasant or underlying, then the often suggested treatment is so intrusive as to more than touch on the question of ethics. Vets have to earn a living, we know, but far too many put the interests of their businesses before the well being of their patients, or their owners.

What's Pet Plan, does anyone know?

Ethical? That would be arguable. Reasonable, not if they expect a client to return it isn't. If I take a car to a garage and ask for a quote for new tyres, do they charge me for that? You can tell your friend's OH that I'm with him.

Alec.
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Deary Me, Alec you sure do talk a LOT of ****e

yes aged dogs do get dentals, and YES in this day and age where they can live for a very long time it IS ethical and is the right thing to do rather than let them suffer with minging sore mouths. And as for the bloods? Yes they want to be sure before they put a dog under a GA that they are as safe as can be. You don't HAVE to it, but it's an option I'd not go without personally.

£313 is not that dear for a dental, depends on whether or not it includes extractions. Extraction work is very hard physically for a vet to do - and my old boy was under for 2 1/2 hours for his most recent dental - 5 teeth out, 2 slab fractures, 3 tumours removed (plus histology), an abcess on a poor old boy with arthritis in his jaw. That dental was £400 odd and that's with my staff discount! He's coming up for 14, and the difference in him since that dental is unbelievable. Never underestimate the power of a good dental to make a dog feel better. Don't believe me, ask anyone who's had teeth which really needed the work and had it done!

Yes you would be charged a consultation time - the vet can't really give you an estimate on a dental without seeing your dog. No more than a garage can give an estimate for your car to be worked on without having a clue what's wrong! However unlike many garages, where you probably don't need to make an appointment, the vets surgery has to cover the cost of the appointment time. Garages will drop their wrench and have a peek under the bonnet and then go back to working. A vet has certain time set aside for surgery and certain time they have set for consults. All of which is billable.

FFS people, work it out. Vets aren't the NHS, they do need to make a profit at the end of this work.
 
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twiggy2 said:
Yes dogs of that age have dentals all the time and yes it is ethical, what is not ethical is leaving them with rotten teeth, the infection in the mouth can and does effect the heart amongst other things.
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Yes, our 12yo JRT will be having his teeth scraped soon under a GA. Better now, whilst he is fit and healthy than when he is sore and sick. The vet assessed him as being fit for this during his annual check up, which is a proper hands on job.

I never begrudge paying vets bills, but £38 for a 2 min chat without examining the dog? Er, not sure I'd be happy about that one.
 
Just as a guide one of our local practices puts all their prices online... http://vetsklinic.co.uk/pricing?gclid=CPSQxeWxwMkCFRQTGwodZUYNJA

I appreciate that these are all for "standard" cases and should problems arise you can expect to pay more but it does highlight that the £313 quote for the teeth would on the face of it, be a little high...

I would have been a little surprised at the consult charge if the vet didn't even look at the dog. I suspect the pet plan is a version of what I used to pay for - it was about £20/month I think in the end and covered worming, flea treatments, vaccinations, 1 vet consult per year.
 
the vet wouldn't have suggested a dental without examining the dog. pure and simple. So consult for nothing doesn't wash IMO.

Alec, as for my aggression - I just get tired of ***** talk - been seeing an awful lot of it lately.
 
One of my dogs is 15 going on 16. Earlier this year at her annual vaccination and free health check, I told the vet that her breath smelled and was becoming a fussy feeder. He thought she needed a dental check but recommended bloods be taken first as she was old for a GA. That day I paid just the price of the vaccination.
On the day of her op I was rung to say that the blood test showed her kidneys were not working to full capacity, did I want them to proceed.
We decided she needed the teeth sorting so she would be on a drip during the procedure and for the rest of the day in recovery to keep her hydrated. All went well and she needed one extraction.
The bill was £160 and my little old girl is eating well.
 
Essentially if not happy with the charge friend should ring and speak to the practice manager, but if vet examined the dog's teeth then a consult took place.
 
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