What breed/type was it?

[alainax]

Met a lovey jet black german shepherd type dog today. About the length and height of a small Shetland pony. But it was his coat which struck me. It was the same sort of texture as a horses mane. Smooth, silky, straight and flat, the longest parts about 4 inches long. All the german Shepards I've know have been quite fluffy more like regular dog coat. Is this a specific breed or type? Or just one very gorgeous dog!

 

[Cahill]

Groenendael ???

 

[cobgoblin]

Belgian sheepdog?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Might be a Belgian Shepherd Groenendal or a longcoat GSD with no undercoat, the texture is fine and silky and not waterproof, which is why it is considered a fault. I know one that parts along the spine!

Neither should be that big though. Dunno about Belgians but a male GSD should be 65cm at the withers, tops, they never were a giant breed.

 

[CorvusCorax]

From the Groenendal breed standard:

Size

Ideal height: dogs: 61-66 cms (24-26 ins); bitches: 56-61 cms (22-24 ins). Weight, in proportion to size.

 

[alainax]

Yes it looked a lot like one of those! Thank you all (goes off to find out more about them)

 

[GirlFriday]

They don't always get the best press around here (HHO, not where I live!) but I did grow up around a rescued one who was good with kids, cats, etc Beautiful

 

[yhanni]

Russian Black Terrier? They've got different faces though but they are enormous!

 

[alainax]

They don't always get the best press around here (HHO, not where I live!) but I did grow up around a rescued one who was good with kids, cats, etc Beautiful

I was just about to ask if anyone had experience of them as pets so far I've read that they are good with kids and cats, as long as it's "their" family and have been brought up with them, although will herd toddlers...

 

[Moobli]

Doesn't sound like a GSD or a Groenendael if it was that size to be honest, although some GSD breeders who favour longcoats and non-standard colours seem to be breeding some oversize dogs.

If it was a Groenendael, I know a couple of people who breed, keep and show them so will ask about their temperaments as family pets.

The variety of Belgian Shepherd on here that gets a bad press is the Malinois, and I believe a Groenendael is much more suited as a family friendly pet.

 

[Moobli]

In the meantime, this is what the KC say about them

https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/services/public/breed/display.aspx?id=5111

And this looks a useful site for info

http://www.bsdaofgb.co.uk/

 

[Laura2408]

I've got a large black GSD cross with no undercoat, he has a long glossy coat with a parting in the middle. It's much better than the actual GSD coat to maintain!

I looked into groenendael but the high risk of cancer combined with the very high drive put me off.

 

[GirlFriday]

The one I knew was introduced to the cat(s) I knew it around when all the animals were adults. I was a baby when introduced though... do recall being nervous (simply a size thing) but not herded

Wasn't good with men in uniform and have no idea if that was due to what happened to her in previous homes or the police kennels where she was kept after being found and classified as 'lost property' (she later went to my relative who'd found her and handed her in to the police the first place). Fine with anyone not in uniform and also women in uniform.

Healthy and lived to reasonable age.

 

[Moobli]

One of the lady's I know with Groenendaels has said that hers are quite sharp and would not be suited to a family that wouldn't spend lots of time with them and keep them active. However, if brought up with children and each taught to respect the other, she would expect them to be good family dogs.

As with most breeds in the herding category, they are intelligent, quick to learn (good AND bad habits), very active, and need abundant early socialisation and training. Nervousness and fear aggression can be a problem throughout all the Belgian Shepherd types so buying from a reputable breeder is very important.

Regarding health, all breeding stock should be tested for HD (although the average scores for the breed are low) and eyes should be tested for hereditary cataracts.

Epilepsy is the most serious health problem in the breed – often late onset and with a complicated mode of inheritance, research projects have been started to examine heritability and to survey how widespread the problem is – many breed clubs now compile databases showing affected dogs which can enable breeders to avoid using those lines.

Groenandaels (and Tervuerens) need a fair amount of grooming and shed their abundant undercoat twice a year in the case of bitches and in males, generally once a year.

 

[alainax]

That's brilliant information, thank you very much for going to the effort of finding out for me

 

[Moobli]

I've got a large black GSD cross with no undercoat, he has a long glossy coat with a parting in the middle. It's much better than the actual GSD coat to maintain!

I looked into groenendael but the high risk of cancer combined with the very high drive put me off.

A GSD standard coat is very easy to maintain, but they do shed copious amounts twice a year.

It is the Malinois (working lines) that have the very high drive.

Also to the OP - Groenendael breeders seem to be comparatively rare, so you may have a longer waiting time for a pup.

https://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeds/belgian-shepherd-groenendael/breeders

 

[Moobli]

That's brilliant information, thank you very much for going to the effort of finding out for me

No probs. Let us know if you do decide to go for one I bet they are super cute as pups! I keep getting slightly seduced by some of the nice working line Malinois I see, but they are a bit too "pointy" aesthetically for me to really fall for them (unless they look more WL GSD than Mali)

 

[Moobli]

This thread actually reminded me of a book I read as a child. I still have a copy. It is called "Jack" and is by author Frank Walker.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Frank-Walker/dp/0718114167

 

[alainax]

A GSD standard coat is very easy to maintain, but they do shed copious amounts twice a year.

It is the Malinois (working lines) that have the very high drive.

Also to the OP - Groenendael breeders seem to be comparatively rare, so you may have a longer waiting time for a pup.

https://www.champdogs.co.uk/breeds/belgian-shepherd-groenendael/breeders

There's one on that list near here ( which is surprising! I usually have to go down south for breeds I like!) I'll maybe drop them a message and see if they have any litters planned. Would be talking late 2018 anyway

The main thing is we have young children here and cats. The dog would need to get on with or at least tolerate them. There's an adult at home all day, huge garden, beach and countryside etc so excercise shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Moobli]

There's one on that list near here ( which is surprising! I usually have to go down south for breeds I like!) I'll maybe drop them a message and see if they have any litters planned. Would be talking late 2018 anyway

The main thing is we have young children here and cats. The dog would need to get on with or at least tolerate them. There's an adult at home all day, huge garden, beach and countryside etc so excercise shouldn't be an issue.

Sounds ideal! Good luck x

 

[GirlFriday]

Nervousness and fear aggression can be a problem throughout all the Belgian Shepherd types so buying from a reputable breeder is very important.

Having had my own dog attacked by a 'very well bred' breeding dog (definitely not a Belgium shepherd) I'd disagree - finding one eating the boxes outside KFC works wonders! ;-)

More seriously WorkingGSD makes a good point about spending time with - the one found outside KFC went to work (and most other places) with owner and had obviously been very well trained before it got lost/abandoned too.

OP's set up sounds rather promising! (Although I've no idea how to introduce to the cats - I think it was mostly luck in our case!)

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is the OP thinking of a dog which is the same breed as Mali, the recent Dickin medal winner?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42031729

Handsome dog, but not sure about having a similar dog as a family pet? (I don't know all the fancy modern foreign dog breed variations, so could well be wrong ).

 

[alainax]

It looked very much like this.

 

[CorvusCorax]

The Belgian Shepherds has four types. The one pictured above is the Gronendael. A Malinois has a short tight coat (and sounds nothing like the Op's description). The Tervuren is the plush version lol. Lakenois has a curly coat. In the country of origin they are considered the same breed with different coat types and can be interbred.

A lot of people mistook my own dog (LSH black GSD) for a Groenendael as a pup but his head bulked out in adulthood thankfully

 

[Moobli]

Is the OP thinking of a dog which is the same breed as Mali, the recent Dickin medal winner?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42031729

Handsome dog, but not sure about having a similar dog as a family pet? (I don't know all the fancy modern foreign dog breed variations, so could well be wrong ).

The four varieties of BSD should all be of the same structure but with different coat types and colours (as above). In 1891 a club was formed called the Club du Chien de Berger Belge -the Belgian Shepherd Dog Club. A meeting was held to determine if the shepherd dogs from the different parts of Belgium could all be described as one breed; the Belgian Shepherd Dog. However it was then found that the look of the dogs differed depending on what region they had been developed in. Some had long coats, some short, some wiry, some were red or fawn and others were black. The dogs hailing from the region of Maline were all short coated and red/fawn with black face masks, and it was decided that this variety would be known as the Belgian Shepherd Dog, Malinois variety. The other three varieties became known as the Tervueren (longcoated and red or fawn), The Groenendael (longcoated and black) and the Laekenois (wire coat and red or fawn).

The Malinois has outshone the other three types in the working dog sphere and is now as popular as GSDs for police and military work. This has caused a split in that variety of BSD and so you have distinct differences between the show and working lines. The working lines are extremely sharp, high drive and most definitely not suited to a pet or inexperienced home.

 

[Moobli]

My own working line GSD has been mistaken for a Malinois on a few occasions which surprised me, as GSDs are so much more popular than Malis. However, I think many people associate GSDs with the black/red variety that is seen in the show ring at Crufts and aren't aware there are working lines which are drastically different. In fact there was research undertaken recently that showed working line and show line GSDs are genetically different.