what classifys a warmblood?

[lannerch]

Having read my eventer magazine this month an article which is specifically about selles francais I read that for example jaguar mail is 80% of tb blood but as he is french is classified as a warmblood!

Surely strictly speaking he is more a tb. And does that mean I can call my 75% tb 1/4 warmblood (and you can track his pedigree right back ) a warmblood, or is that only the case if his passport is french?

 

[Kate260881]

I was under the impression that a warmblood was mix of 'hot' and 'cold' bloods a few generations back but now they are more breeds in their own right (KWPN for example). I may however be completely wrong on this as I'm no breeding guru so would be interested in the replies to this thread.

I also think that warmbloods should have pedigrees that can be traced. For example a lot of ISHs have basically unknown breeding but were graded so even though you have no idea what the breeds are that went into it its still classified as a warmblood. Rightly or wrongly I don't think they should be warmbloods. I think warmblood indicates some kind of ability to track a horses pedigree and origins.

 

[Ciss]

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I was under the impression that a warmblood was mix of 'hot' and 'cold' bloods a few generations back but now they are more breeds in their own right (KWPN for example). I may however be completely wrong on this as I'm no breeding guru so would be interested in the replies to this thread.

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The old hot and cold definition was a useful general guide but things have moved on considerably from there now.

As many of the different warmblood studbooks have varying -- sometimes even conflicting -- rules as to what breeding is eligible for them to grade into their studbooks and regsiter foals from, the only realistic definition is to say that a warmblood is a horse with papers issued by a warmblood studbook that is a member of the WBFSH This animal must also be eligible for grading into the main breeding registers of the studbook concerned which maintain their quality by a grading process involving a progressive series of conformation and performance assessments for both stallions and mares .

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I also think that warmbloods should have pedigrees that can be traced. For example a lot of ISHs have basically unknown breeding but were graded so even though you have no idea what the breeds are that went into it its still classified as a warmblood.

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Actually an Irish Sports Horse is NOT a warmblood in the term as used by WBFSH. The ISH did until recently performance test its stallions (but this no longer happens becuase according to Nick Finnerty who headed it up until the end of November 'It never worked becuase noone ever presented their stallions recently') and some of the stallions graded into it do have birth papers from warmblood studbooks, but becuase of the mixed and non-warmblood orgins of a number of the stallions -- and a great many of the mares -- the ISH is what it says it is (a sports horse register) and the horses with its papers are sports horses NOT warmbloods. The same applies to horses with SHBGB, BSHR and actually (ducks to avoid missiles) AES and SSH horses as well. However, becuase some of these horses may actually have 100% warmblood blood they may be accepted as eligible for grading into a warmblood studbook on a case by case basis according to the % of authenticated, graded warmblood lines in their pedigree.

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Rightly or wrongly I don't think they should be warmbloods. I think warmblood indicates some kind of ability to track a horses pedigree and origins.

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Presumably you are talking about ISH's here not SFs. SF's have always been regarded by wb studbooks as a quality improving breed with a lot of TB in it and thus a way to get proven performance TB-based bloodlines into wb lines that need upgrading for speed, quality, jump etc as the whole SF breeding programme is totally performance based and has 100% verified pedigrees.

BTW, the problem of sport horse approval into wb books is probably why AES, SHBGB and ISH horses are not eligible for grading with either the KWPN or the Hann Verband (a decision that has caused much wailing and nashing of teeth in the past!) but makes perfect sense in this context.

 

[Birker2020]

I think it is quite confusing too. For instance my horse is dutch bred - his grandsire is Nimmerdor, and when you count the number of dutch horses on his passport compared with belgian bred horses (on his dams side) he is more dutch than belgian but because he was born in belgium he has the belgian warmblood brand (BWP) and passport belonging to the BWP society. He has TB in his gene pool too. I always look at him as dutch. I think maybe then it does depend in what country they are born. As Jaguar Mail was born in france maybe thats why he's classed as a warmblood. I always thought warmbloods were selle francais, dutch, belgium, danish, etc, but I am confused about what makes a british warmblood too.

 

[Adina]

This is what I understand it to mean :
I think the word "warmblood" is used (and misused) in several ways. Scientifically it is not a breed because the DNA is too mixed. But studbooks can decide what horses with what mixes of blood they want to admit to their studbook. Historically if you look at some of the European "breeds" you will find that different areas developed distinct types and names were given according to the area where they were born. All these studbooks are looking to maintain quality, hence various rules and perhaps some anomalies.
Basically a "warmblood" is a mixture of hot and cold blood types. But a "Warmblood" (capital M) has become to mean something else.

 

[Spyda]

My registered Warmblood is pretty much an Anglo Arab, with some Trakhener blood crossed in a few times, if you look back at her extended pedigree! No other breeds in her breeding, so where's the 'cold blood' to = her being a Warmblood? Mystifies me.

 

[magic104]

I thought Trakhnener's were just that Trakhneners like TB's are TB's & Arabs, Arabs, & if anything I would have classed them as Hot not Warm??

 

[Cluny]

However you look at it though, WB's have a high percentage of TB in them, as the old cold blooded draught horses were cross bred with TB's to lighten them to give you the Warmblood.

My Danish WB can be traced back to old english hunters (Grey Bloody Buttocks I kid you not!)

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/schaufuss2

and my Oldenburg goes back to Nijinsky and then way further
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/centurion15