What Colour Foal Might I Get (Piccies)

devilwoman

devilwoman

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As an extremely impatient first time ever (in over 30 years of owning horses) expectant granny, what colour foal do you think i'd get from these two lovely animals :-)) thankyou.

Dam : 15.2hh Blue/White (now fading out to grey only) Cob X TB

Misty-1.jpg



Dad : 15.3hh Welsh D Bay

George.jpg
 
ooh i have no idea thats a tricky 1 someone more clued up on breeding will know better than me but i reckon you will get something very nice i hope you'll post some piccies when foaly arrives i'd be really interested to see how it turns out x
 
As always it's not simple!

Do you know any of the grandparents colours, and has the stallion ever produced a chestnut foal?

If your mare only had one grey parent or if she had two grey parents but only inherited 1 grey gene then it's 50/50 that the foal whatever colour will go grey. If she had 2 grey parents 's and got a grey gene from each then it is 100% certain that the foal will go grey. grey is dominant so only 1 copy is needed to show the effect.

That's the easy bit!

Dad is black based so he has at least 1 gene for black coat, so it's 50/50 that the foal will inherit this from him, giving you a black based horse as opposed to chestnut. I suspect as you say mum was blue that she has at least one black gene also. What you need to know is if both carry chestnut, hence the question of the grandparents and offspring colours!

If both have two black genes then the foal will be black based and no chance of chestnut. If one parent has two black genes the the foal will be black based but may carry chestnut. If each parent carries chestnut you have a 25% chance of chestnut.

Dad has at least one Agouti (bay/Brown) gene, if mum was black and white when born, she has none as if she had any she would have been bay or brown and white. So if dad only has one then it's 50:50 bay/brown to Black, if dad has two A genes then you will not get a black.

I can narrow it down a bit if you can answer the questions!

OOps forgot the coloured bit 50/50 a foal will inherit the coloured gene (am assuming it's tobiano can't quite see what the patetrn was) but it's hard to say how much white you will get as it depends on more genes inherited that can be hidden for a few generations!
 
Thankyou, that reply is great - i've attached a piccie of Dam when wet as it shows her colouring more promiment, she is unregistered but I contacted her breeder who told me her father was exactly the same colouring as her and her mother was a Chestnut TB, thats all I know about her background.

0072.jpg



Sire's breeding lines are here : http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/tynyrheol+cymro





does this help at all ?
 
Oh Darn as usual they don’t fill the damn colours in!!!

The sire of your foal:

Can’t find any chestnut offspring in the sire BUT only 3 have the colour recorded!!!! If you can ask the Stallion owner if he has produced a chestnut but if he hasn’t sired a significant number of foals you still won’t know. There are chestnuts quite close in his ped his maternal grandma was chestnut and looking at the foal in the picture of his mum, it’s a chestnut so his mother carries chestnut for sure! His paternal great grandma was also a chestnut, so it’s quite possible he carries it.

There is also some “dun” in there via gornoeth rosie on his sires side, I suspect this is much more likely to be buckskin than dun, a single cream gene and since there are a lot of blacks and black and tans in there it’s not inconceivable that he has a cream gene too!!!

He is by a black and if it was a true black and not an extreme black and tan then we know his A from his mum and a from dad, but I’ll stick my neck out here and say he is At a (black and tan and a black gene). His dad certainly looks black in the photo.

So he is probably genetically E ? At a, with the ? possibly being e (chestnut) or E (black)
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Your mare when wet looks like a tobiano pattern to me but I am no expert on those patterns probably Angrove or Volatis can say, (she doesn't look happy being wet BTW!) she has one grey gene then and carries chestnut so she is probably

Ee (black carrying chestnut) aa (no Agouti = black) Gg (One Grey gene) and Tn (One tobiano coloured gene)
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So if dad has a chestnut gene the possibilities for the offspring are

EE (Black no chestnut) 25% Ee (Black carrying chestnut) 50% and ee (chestnut) 25%

If he has no chestnut then you foal will be black based but could carry chestnut.
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On the Agouti side which only applies if you don’t get a chestnut:

Ata (Black and tan carrying black) 50% and aa (black) 50%

___

Then its 50:50 tobiano and 50:50 that the foal will inherit grey.
 
Wow Karyn you are so clever, thankyou so much for your analysis - I will look forward to posting once baby is here with some piccies for you all to see.

Think she was dozing off being bathed- it was very hot that day - she nearly always has that miserable look on her face "well so my hubby says anyway".
 
At the end of the day never bet on colour! Good luck with the birth, I think she will look miserable closer to her time! and yes please pictures!
 
I was trying to breed blacks, so I put this stallion (sire dark bay, dam black)
IMGB13313VF1.jpg

To this mare, (sire black, dam bay)
hols14.jpg


And got these!!!!!!!
scan.jpg

P1010253.jpg

I gave up after the second, as the WPCS wouldn't register him because of all the white!
 
Two stunning foals you got though maybe not what you were banking on lol. I know of someone who's foal had too big a white splash under the belly and the WPCS wouldn't register it either, wonder where the white came from in your foal.
 
Oh dear, like me you lucked out, bred my Black and Tan mare to a Bay stallion 75% chance of a Bay or Black and tan, got chestnut, bred her daughter (a chestnut) to same horse 50% this time, sure enough a chestnut!!!! Like the two parents in my 1st case both parents with yours were chestnut carriers. Lovely babies though.

The white is sabino markings, though both parents were conservatively marked with white, chestnut being recessive is thought to let white through easily and if the parents had stored white out it comes!

The trouble is that in recent years white markings have been promoted in the breed and this crop out can become more frequent as the white builds strength.

I do wonder how they get away with not registering these horses now since the EU have said if it is the product of 2 stud book horses and you have a covering certificate the foal must be registered???????
 
The WPCS will only register these white marked offspring in Section X, which meant I could not show the colt in any welsh affiliated show classes, or stand him as a welsh D stallion. despite the fact he had the best of bloodlines,so in the end I registered him with CHAPS. Such a waste. I went back 7 generations in his pedigree, and could not find any similar markings, such is breeding!
 
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