What did we do before the invention of "back people"?

lexiedhb

lexiedhb

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 January 2007
Messages
13,957
Location
Surrey
Visit site
Back in the day, When I was younger (Im 32) and had my own pony and then horse, there was no such thing as a "back person"- that I was aware of.

If your horse was lame, you called the vet, if it didnt feel right when you rode it, you gave it a few days off, possibly a few days of bute. and 9/10 all was well by the following week, with no reoccurance.... if there was again the vet was called.

I have NO experience with back people/Mctimoney people/physios yadda yadda yadda, but do find it AMAZING that so many people really belive that some little 8 stone woman (or whoever) can lay their hands on a horse claim that its hip/shoulder/leg/back is "out" and proceed to put it back in............ the musculature/skeletal structure of a horse is so much stronger than that!!

Ok so I get you can manipulate muscle, usually using the horses own strength, and maybe free certain tense areas, but popping a hip back in is just nonsense to me (mainly as if a horses hip was truely dislocated surely it wouldnt be able to weight bear!!).

Just wondered what others think?

ETS- perhaps it is just the terminology used by these people that is the problem, as in it should be "your horse is very tense through the muscles in his right shoulder" instead of " your horses right shoulder is out"
 
Last edited:
My previous Vet, who is now no longer with us, sadly, was still around at the start of this "new craze".
He would laugh at such an idea, that someone proclaiming to be able to "put back" something that couldn't "come out" in the first place.

If a "vertabrae" is out, then surely that would be akin to a slipped disc and not readily and instantly repairable?
 
I've often wondered the same and the mind boggles when people declare that their horse's pelvis/neck/whatever is 'out' - out where, exactly? :rolleyes:

I recognise the benefits of massage and stretching exercises, certainly, and these are probably best performed by a trained professional, but I refuse to believe that a human being can manipulate the skeleton of a horse - or, indeed, that such problems exist... a few day's rest and painkillers will sort out muscular strains and anything else or that doesn't go away after a few days should be examined by a vet.
 
Well my horse frequently puts his pelvis "out" as my chiro puts it but I am well aware that she doesn't mean the bone structure of his pelvis is out but it is a muslcular problem causing an alignment issue. When this happens he goes from being a very supple balanced horse that scores over 70% in most of his dressage tests to something that cannot canter a circle on the left rein. More often than not he will put his pelvis out looning around the field and we think this was originally caused when he was a youngster so has a slight weekness there. After much manipulation / massage from the chiro he is pretty much back to normal within a day or two so there really is something in what these people do. Without them I would have a horse in a lot of discomfort and one I could not compete a smiple dressage test. However in all my years of growing up and hooning around on ponies jumping anything that was in my way I never had a back person to look at them so I don't think this is just a craze now but a case of us being more educated than we were years ago.
 
i guess before 'backmen' were around people used to ride horses with bad backs?

having had a horse with a frozen shoulder who needs a lot of manipulation (and he is so much better after it) i don't understand why people knock something that either they haven't tried or don't need themselves?

i also get my own back checked to ensure i am not crooked- how new fangled am i?? :)

i also hate the 'pelvis out' term but i think that was coined the same way people refer to 'putting their back out' lifting something heavy etc and most people understand it doesn't mean the bone has popped out of the joint!!
 
This is eaxctly what I mean, they need better terminology and explainations of what the actual problem is!

ETS- by the way I am not saying these people are a waste of space!! :)
 
I've been around a lot longer than 32 years, and I remember my Grandpa getting a "back person" for a horse. I'm now a practitioner myself, and the positive results that horses get from a very gentle modality never fail to amaze me. If you don't "believe" in it, try it for yourself - most horse practitioners will have trained with humans too.

And yes - the horses of some people who don't "believe" in it are often the ones with their heads in the air, running out at jumps and bucking people off!!
 
Well I'm having my back seen to next week after years of back pain and putting up with it. I have noticed that I sit to the left when driving or sitting and I also get muscle spasms down my rightside. Haven't ridden for awhile because of my back, so most probably safed my horse from the same thing:D:D
 
well I'm 40 and can remember back men back in the 80s so I wouldnbt be surprised if there were some way before then. I think back then horses with behavioural issues through pain were ridden through it, shot more quickly etc. an awful lot of back problems are caused by undiagnosed lower leg/foot problems also.
 
I agree that the terminology is deceptive but it's far easier to say "pelvis out" or whatever than it is to describe the whole thing perfectly accurately. Everyone knows what they mean - even you, you admitted as much in your post!

I've been around horses for over 40 years and I can recall the old farmer down the road (who was a farrier as well) manipulating his Belgian's hind legs and hips and asking him what he was doing. He told me the horse was sore in his back end and he was fixing it. Very similar to what I've seen a chiro do.

So I'm not sure it's as "new" as it seems. And I have seen horses helped enormously with it.
 
I'm pretty sure there were "back people" back in the day but maybe they weren't called that and probably were not so mainstream.

My back goes 'out' all the time since my knee's buckled and I see a chiro and I feel like I've got new legs sometimes.

I use a "back man" and see the difference. In fact that has just reminded me, need to book him in again....
 
People had a lot more money!!!!
I had various back people telling me my horses back was fine, when in fact he had a severe kissing spine, and it cost me £50!!
I sometimes get a massage therapist out, but 'back' people in my opinion makw no difference, especially as anyone can do it. A vet/back man near me said if something is 'out' you would need a landrover to get it back in not a small lady poking!
 
I'm just going slighlty off track but still to do with back people.

When a back person runs along the spine and 'pops' bits back in how hard do you expect them to bang everything back in place?

I have used to different back people, one is gentle and doesn't cause horse distress no matter how 'out' the back may be but the other uses a fair amount of force that has made the horse very upset and wondering what the hell is going on.

So does it mean that one is getting the job done and the other just wasting my money.

What are your thoughts?

Hope this makes sense and sorry for not using the right terminolagy.....
 
My horse has regular treatments from a mctimoney chiro, Shiatsu and saddle fitter. And they have all made a great deal of difference to my horses way of going. He has all three at least every three months, maybe more if we have a problem. I know if he needs the chiro as when riding him he will find something more difficult or he will resist where he wouldnt usually. I wouldnt spend the money if i didnt see any difference. And i wouldnt ask my horse to work if he wasnt in fully working order!!!
 
I am old enough (a lot older than 32!) to remember furious rows via the correspondence page in H & H by vets who said it was impossible for anyone to manipulate a horse's spine. The first I heard of was Ronnie Longford (? is that correct) and Caoline Arkell. They don't move the bones, but they can help with muscle tensions. I only half believed that a "back person" could help, but I had Caroline to one of mine and she cured what the problem was, so I was converted then!

Horses got to PTS if they bucked, once owners can contacted the vet and rest didn't do anything to resolve problems they gave up. Also horses were not in all year round competition or even riding, as there weren't any indoor shows and Horse of the Year Show was the end of the showing season, so lots of problems went away with rest i.e. a hunter with a bad back was given the summer off, a show horse would have the winter off. They also had their shoes removed in the off season, so that helped as well.

The thing is that in my early years a horse was considered elderly once it was past 12 or so, when a couple of 14 year olds went round Badminton there were mutterings about crulety to horses, there was far less spent on keeping a horse going.

A chiropractor saved my horse from being retired as a 6 year old as he had a chronic tripping problem and I use a chiro or physiotherapist regularly to keep him supple and it does work!
 
We used Ronnie Longford back in the mid 70's. There were back men in the dim and distant past, there just weren't so many of them.
 
Firstly to the 'dont knock it till you have tried it' comment..... i wasnt, just wondering how either of my nags ever survived without these miracle workers, and currently share a horse who is exhibiting no issue, so should I just get a back person out 'just in case' ..... maybe the vet aswell whilst im at it.... think not!

Really interesting--- so the back man has always been about, just less poncy (ie the old farmer down the road knew how to stretch his horse out without spending £50 a time!!), the terminology is UTTERLY rubbish, and actually I dont see why it is- we are intelligent and would understand if it was explained properly - you would want a doctor to tell you your vertebrae were "out" when actually he mant you had very tense muscles running up your spine.......

and experiences differ massively..... SURELY a back person should be able to tell if a horse has kissing spine??
 
but not all back people are created equal and there are good and bad in all modalities. I am constantly amazed at the results gained from gentler methods such as equine touch, Bowen and the like that don't involve the more violent manipulations seen from the old school chiros and back people. I have used a chartered physio in conjunction with my vet with great success, not many modalities have such rigorous training as the chartered physios (and I am trianing in a couple of them!)
 
lexiedhb said:
Firstly to the 'dont knock it till you have tried it' comment..... i wasnt, just wondering how either of my nags ever survived without these miracle workers, and currently share a horse who is exhibiting no issue, so should I just get a back person out 'just in case' ..... maybe the vet aswell whilst im at it.... think not!

Really interesting--- so the back man has always been about, just less poncy (ie the old farmer down the road knew how to stretch his horse out without spending £50 a time!!), the terminology is UTTERLY rubbish, and actually I dont see why it is- we are intelligent and would understand if it was explained properly - you would want a doctor to tell you your vertebrae were "out" when actually he mant you had very tense muscles running up your spine.......

and experiences differ massively..... SURELY a back person should be able to tell if a horse has kissing spine??
Click to expand...

Have you tried it?
 
No I havent, but same as I dont go myself to the doctor/physio/chiro if nothing is wrong then why would I pay good money to have someone come out to a horse if nothing is wrong?
 
A while back I read pat Smythe autobiography. From fuzzy memory, in the early years with Stroller she had a real problem with him being stiff on one side, and one day decided to tie his head to his tail on that side, bending him round. It worked lol, and thereafter he was a flexible rubber ball -still lol................
 
I think of it in terms of human athletes. Footballers, athletic stars, rugby players, etc - physiotherapy and massage (and to some extent chiro work) is an integral part of keeping their bodies in peak condition and to battle the rigours and strains of performance. I see horses in the same way. We are asking them to be athletes, to use their bodies gymnastically, so they too deserve help to keep any muscle soreness and asymmentries at bay. In fact, because we through our own limitations can cause trouble for horses' bodies, I feel it is even more important to use every possible tool to keep them in top condition.

However, there are a lot of charlatans out there. A properly trained and qualified physiotherapist will have a degree in human phisotheraphy, and then an additional qualification in animal physio which will include theory and practical placements with veterinary practices. It is a long road to qualification and they are very knowledgeable about biomechanics. On the other hand, anyone can call themselves a "back person" and start pulling horses around.........:eek:
 
lexiedhb said:
No I havent, but same as I dont go myself to the doctor/physio/chiro if nothing is wrong then why would I pay good money to have someone come out to a horse if nothing is wrong?
Click to expand...

I totally agree with Lexiedhb.

I have never had a 'back man' out to my horse. If she had a problem or if I felt that she was stiff or out of the ordinary in any way, then for sure I would get her seen to - however my first port of call would probably be my vet, from whom I would seek advice as to what to do next.

I do have the dentist out every year, and I also get my saddle checked - these things are, I feel, very important. But I see no point in having a back man out if there is no problem - if the horse's attitude to work is unchanged, and if you dont feel there are any issues regarding soreness or stiffness, then why bother paying all that money for someone to come out?

I take the same line with human chiropractors/physios etc. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it! I wouldnt dream of going for a routine check of my back...although if I did have a problem, I would go straight away (and have done in the past.)

But hey, this is coming from someone who hasnt been to the dentist since she was 8 years old...! :eek:
 
Halfstep said:
A properly trained and qualified physiotherapist will have a degree in human phisotheraphy, and then an additional qualification in animal physio which will include theory and practical placements with veterinary practices.
Click to expand...

Sorry but this is not the only way to become a qualified physiotherapist. You can now become a veterinary physiotherapist with a degree in animal/equine science and an MSc Veterinary Physiotherapy.
 
Cocoa said:
Sorry but this is not the only way to become a qualified physiotherapist. You can now become a veterinary physiotherapist with a degree in animal/equine science and an MSc Veterinary Physiotherapy.
Click to expand...

Really??? arse! I have a degree in animal science, but my masters is in Cancer Biology..... I reckon there is more money to be had in animal physio!!

Mizelz- glad im not alone

Halfstep- that's a really good way of looking at it- although I dont think hacking, and a bit of schooling make the horse I share an athlete!! LOL
 
My view would be that prevention is often better than cure. By keeping an eye on things and adjusting any minor problems you may be able to stop them developing into more major ones. Hence why I have a physiotherapist (fully qualified and on the ACPAT list) out every 3-6 months to check on my boy.

I have had vets out to look at my horse before and have been disappointed to note that at least 2 of them have not touched a back or looked at saddle fit etc. They have done the most basic assessment of movement. Calling a vet would most definitely not be my first port of call, although I can understand how a vet can be part of the multi-disciplinary team should there be a significant issue. Feet, saddle, movement, physical examination should all be part of the process IMO.

I would want to speak to chiropractor, osteopath, physio or any other person coming to see my horse to ascertain their qualifications, method of assessment, and treatment methods, if treatment is required.

Like everything, I think some people get rather hung up on having this person or that person out and going with the latest fad. There is a place for these people though.
 
Well, I was having the "back person" to my horse and I realised that I was spending all this money on him, and wouldn't it be a good idea to spend some on me too. I breezed into the treatment room and then was required to give a medical history. I didn't think I had ever had much wrong, but when I sat down and went through everything it mounted up to quite a lot - particularly those horse falls! Since having regular treatment I have been in much better shape, I don't get backache for instance.

It is true that there are good practitioners and no so good, I have had a few of the latter! I currently have a chartered physio who not only treats my horse, but gives me exercises for him to do in between.

As regards the vet, always the first to be called in, but sometimes they will say you had better get a "back person" as they know more than me. Plus, I totally agree that too often someone will get a "back person" when in fact the problem is foot/leg. I had a perfect example of this with my horse this year, when muscle stiffness was causing strange hoof wear, which in turn was affecting the front end - so do feet cause back problems, or back cause feet problems? Both of course, it is just trying to find the first problem!

Horses are working at a much higher standard now. How would the dressage/eventing winners of the 1970s compare to the equivilant today? As already said, althletes, footballers, rugby players, etc. all use various physios and massage to improve athletic performance, so it is the same in the horse world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top