What diet for my veteran??

Hels_Bells

Hels_Bells

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Winter is coming and as my veteran struggled last year esp when we lost the grass for weeks under snow, and I want to give him a bit of a diet overhaul now ahead of winter setting in.

He is now 15.1hh (he used to be 15.3hh but I think has suffered from old person shrinkage). He is and ID x TB (about 50/50 I think) and is 32 years old. He has always been a very good doer, but for the first time ever dropped some weight last winter. He has 1 maybe 2 teeth left but manages to graze on grass fairly well. He also scoffs his dinner down easily but struggles a bit with his haylage sometimes (yet sometimes by morning it's all gone!!! :confused:)!!!

At present he is looking well after a summer of 24hr grazing and at last weight tape (though I find them very unreliable) he was 450Kg. He is currently grazing 8am-6pm though this will (become 8-4 as winter sets in) and he gets 2 small feeds daily of:-

16+ (1/2 stubbs scoop over two feeds)
Bran (1 stubbs scoop over two feeds)
Sugarbeet (1/2 watery stubbs scoop over two feeds)
Linseed oil
Bute (he has artritus)

This (apart from the bute) has been his standard diet for most of his life and has served him well until last winter so I want to make some changes to help him now he is much older.

The only problem I see in his diet at present is that his poos are quite runny. Could this be the bran?

I posted last year on veteran diets and got some good suggestions and have been recommended various feeds: Fibre Beet, Fast Fibre, Mollichaf Herbal (he loves this as tried it last winter), Readigrass (again loves from last winter), Hi Fi Senior, Alfa Beet (he doesn't much like Alfa A etc, but I think that's because of the texture with his lack of teeth).

I intend to call some of the feed companies for advice but would also like to get opinions and suggested diets and potential measurements (if poss) from other people. Also keen to know what feed co's you have sought advice from and how they were etc (I use baileys for my eventer and they suit him very well, but think their veteran feeds don't seem to be quite as well regarded as some other firms).

Thanks ever so!! :)
 
I have had to put my 24 year old arab on a forage replacer diet this autumn as he has teeth missing and struggles with a net.

He gets:
2 round scoops Speedibeet (forage)
2 round scoops Dengie Alfalfa pellets (forage)
1 round scoop rolled oats (condition and energy)
1 round scoop wheat bran (weight and phosphorous balances the calcium in the alfalfa)
handful of Readigrass (to slow him down)
2000iu vitamin E capsules (replace lost vit E in lost forage intake for immune system)
1 small scoop Carob meal (condition, digestion, vits and mins, calcium)
1 tsp tumeric (joints)
1tbs salt
300mg micronised linseed (condition, joints, gut health)
10g brewer's yeast (gut health)
10g Yea-Sacc (gut health).

I have actually had to cut his amounts down as he was getting too tubby!

I would say that for your boy, I would look into supplementing Vit E, brewer's yeast and yea-sacc even if you wanted to keep feeding a commercial mix. Also Boswellia is good for arthritis.

Another veteren feed I have heard good things about is Ready Mash Extra.
 
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Thanks very much Oberon, some great information here. May I ask how you decided upon this diet, did you speak to feed companies etc? I have tried botswelia for quite a few months but haven't noticed much difference so have stopped it.
 
Jamin is on:

Alfa A Oil (1 scoop)
Speedibeet (1 scoop)
Spillers Slow Response Cubes ( 1 scoop)

All soaked over nights othat is is very soft and easy to eat.

She comes in off the grass for 4 hours a day to have her feed and gets hay and a bucket of Readigrass to pick at.

When the colder weather kicks in I shall increase the Speedibeet and Alfa and drop the cubes to 1/2 scoop and add pink powder to help her gut and replace the vits/mins from dropping the cubes (I would only drop the cubes due to cost of increasing the other two - im poor lol).

If Jamin began to struggle with any chop again then I would give her a hay replacer of:

Fast Fibre and Speedibeet with maybe some Micronised Linseed to help with her condition. I would also continue to add Pink Powder in the colder months.
 
When looking at recommended feeds, don't forget to check their comparative 'calorie counts', which are expressed in MJDE/kg. A lot of veteran mixes are lower in calories than conditioning cubes/mixes - for example, 16+ has 11 MJDE/kg, compared to Build Up Cubes which has 12.5 MJDE/kg and Baileys No. 4 which has 13.5 MJDE/kg. So if you find he starts dropping weight on the 16+ you may be best to switch to a higher calorie feed.

The alternative to feeding a mix/cube is to feed fibre and oil-based straights (alfalfa, beet, grass chaff, grass nuts, micronised linseed etc.) alongside a balancer (ie Top Spec, Pink Powder etc.) The advantage is that the balancer will provide the right amount of vit/mins, but you can adjust the calories by decreasing/increasing the other feeds according to condition. (Thus avoiding the situation you are in at present, where you are not feeding enough of the 16+ to provide the amount of vit/mins that the manufacturer intended). Another advantage of a balancer is that they contain probiotics to encourage healthy bacteria in the gut and help the horse make the most of the feed it gets, plus could possibly help with the runny poos.

Again you need to look at the calorie content of the different fibre feeds if you are struggling to maintain his weight and try and pick the higher calorie ones. For example, Fast Fibre and HiFi Senior are low calorie feeds at around 8/8.5 MJDE/kg, whereas Readigrass is high calorie at about 12-13 MJDE/kg. So you would have to feed a lot more HiFi or Fast Fibre than Readigrass to get the same weight gain effect.

If he sometimes struggles to finish his haylage overnight, then supplement this with a tub of soaked grass nuts or a grass chaff, as the haylage would normally contribute a high proportion of calories to his diet.
 
Our 36yr old, 14.2hh, Arab x welsh has fast fibre, hifi senior, spillers veteran conditioning mix and readi grass. She only has front teeth now so can still eat grass but not hay. She came out of last winter looking fantastic and hardly dropped any weight at all.

I've just got a sample of Allen and page new veteran feed called veteran vitality, again a soakable feed like fast fibre but higher in calories.

I hope this helps, we basically went and talked to every feed company at your horse live and out of all of them Allen and page were the most helpful xx
 
my old lad has 1 stubb scoop of hifi senior, 3/4 stubb dry scoop of fast fibre and 1/2 stubb scoop of old faithfuls. i will be replacing the old faithfuls with the AP veteran vitality if the horse takes to it.
 
I make up a mixture of Speedy Beet and Lucie Nut (From Simple Systems) soaked over night.

I put a good scoop in a bucket and on top what ever hard feed they are having.

My 12.2h 21 yr old New Forest mare gets a scoop of Baileys Senor Mix, a tea spoon of salt and some NAF Super Flex

My 15.2h good doer Arab gelding will get Baileys Lo cal Balancer, salt Super Flex and the Hilton Herbs Cleavers and Marigold.

My other Arabs a 14h mare, a 15.1h mare and a 14.3h gelding will get the lo cal,salt, Super flex and Baileys Conditioning cubes.

After Christmas when they are fed the hay in the morning I will add big scoops of soaked grass nuts and put some on each pile of hay.

A mixture of the speedy beet, lucie nuts and grass nuts all soaked make a very good base for a veteran horse.

You can also add some vegetable oil (I buy mine from ASDA)
 
Wonderful thanks so much for all your suggestions, really interesting to hear about all the different approaches and useful tactics you employ! I have been looking into them and am also organising a consultation with an independent nutritionist recommended by some of you kind folk!!
 
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