What do judges look for in hunter breeding?

[arwenplusone]

Hey, just wanted to canvas opinion, i have a beautiful (not that I am biased AT ALL lol) filly foal born 28 April. Stud thought she was show quality and that I should show her so I tootled along to a hunter breeding class.

Was placed third (out of four) not such a great result but was thrilled because foaly behaved herself and there were no rearing (!) incidents. :grin:
However, I truly could not see what was better about the others. The one placed first just seemed to be the bigger (older) foal. She was the foal of the winning broodmare - would this be a big influence?

 

[joy]

No idea, took my lovely 4yo TB to an in-hand show only to have him placed last of 7 below 5 big gormless warmbloods and a fat cob. Needless to say I left the arena.
Showing youngstock is a nightmare, last year as a 3yo entire he was constantly placed below taller, fatter, commoner animals because judges didn't seem to think 15.2 a viable height for a hunter.
But good luck if you have nerves of steel and appreciate that many of the youngstock shown are produced for those age classes and nothing more, at 1 yo mine looked like a long stringbean and at 2 he was a giant head followed by a horse.
Also bear in mind that a few weeks in age is a major difference and judges will go for size over quality.

 

[sallyf]

Not always we have shown small hunter mares in open classes for many years and my foals which are at least 3/4 TB have always held there own and often beaten the larger ID X and Warmblood "hunter foals".
Often down to judges personal choice.
We have also showed many of our youngstock with success and none have been "produced " as such just well handled ,turned out and fed but in just covered condition which is how i like them anyway.
Often foals are judged on how there joints and limbs look at the time and whether they are moving straight and freely.
One of my small mares topped her grading so i honestly dont think that height is an issue or it never has been for us.
These are two of the ones that we showed with great success virtually unbeaten they are actually full sisters but the bay filly was a late April foal.
http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/s..._background.jpg
http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h146/s..._background.jpg

 

[virtual]

[ QUOTE ]
No idea, took my lovely 4yo TB to an in-hand show only to have him placed last of 7 below 5 big gormless warmbloods and a fat cob. Needless to say I left the arena.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry you didn't get the placing you thought you deserved, but if you left the arena before the class had finished it is very bad manners, however upset you are with the result.

I don't envy judges of youngstock classes at all, where horses can change so much from one week to the next and it's so hard to assess their true potential. Hunter judges tend to look for adequate limb, and a generally good bone structure (good front, not long in the back etc), plus good, hunter movement. It *is* hard to compete against older or bigger animals, but usually the best do rise to the top.

Why don't you try a few more classes and ask why you are placed where you are? Judges are often happy to give an opinion and/or tell you ways you could improve your horse or it's performance on the day.

 

[arwenplusone]

Thanks guys, I'm going to try another class or two over the season and see - it was our first outing and it's one person's opinion on one day. I didn't ask the judge for any comments on my foal but mostly because I wasn't sure I was allowed to ! (new to showing) and the judge was really dismissive (and I thought a bit rude). Still, we'll carry on.

Trouble I have is that my mare (love her as i do) is blemished so is never going to win the broodmare class (she's also a bit too deep and that makes her legs look short

) but does that affect the foal's placing? I assume the judge can't help thinking that the foal might have inherited mother's traits?

 

[sallyf]

Depending on how bad the blemish is it shouldnt make that much differance unless it is a glaringly obvious scar.
This a picture of my small mare who we showed into her late teens (still managed res ch at county level at 19)and she had blemishes albeit not scars but also a big knee laterly after one of her foals kicked her and the most that stopped her from doing was winning at the national championships (she was second)she did manage to be show supreme with it though at another county show and was never lower than 4th which was at the Hunter show.
There is also a picture of my TB small hunter mare at the bottom admittidly she was blemish free but had a great record .
Both of these mares are short legged and deep on the whole that is what judges like.
Do you have any pictures of your mare i might be able to give you a few tips to help.

 

[arwenplusone]

Aw nice pics, your horses are all beautiful - The grey mare in particular.
I attach some pictures but they don't do the pair justice - didn't get any good ones at the show.
The mare has no way near perfect conformation but it's the foal I am looking to get opinion on really - so hard to assess them at this age (and from a dodgy photo!)

unfortunately, foaly refused to stand still! horrid little thing

This is the first foal I have bred from the mare so I'm trying to decide whether it is wise to have any more.

(Also - I do have to admit, they are not hunters. mare is 100% WB and foal is 3/4 wb + 1/4 TB!)

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
and judges will go for size over quality

[/ QUOTE ]
You couldn't be more wrong in that statement I'm happy to say.

Whilst showing is subjective, luckily it's not that subjective.

I stable at a very successful showing yard. Youngstock oooze quality, are never over produced, and always hold their own against sometimes older and or fatter entries.

 

[sallyf]

It could be as simple as the foal not standing still that is a pet hate of judges because they find it difficult to see if foal is four square.
IMHO i wouldnt plait the foal up the mare is a nice stamp but her fault is with her neck being slightly short and low set and by plaiting the foal up you are encourageing the foal to look the same.
Alot of foals can look a bit like it but you dont need to excentuate the fact.
Judges will look for a mares faults in the foal you just dont need to help them.
Two other small things the mare would look better in a heavyish double bridle or a pelham with two reins.
Both you and your helper need to be wearing hard hats.
Often with showing the overall appearance will win you a few places its all about catching the eye when you enter the ring.
If a judge falls in love with your horse when it enters the ring you can only be put down so far if they find something they dont like.
Not sure of the show you were at but we always try and avoid shows that dont have SHB panel judges as often it is then the judges hunting buddy that wins.
Hope you find this a help.

 

[Ciss]

It was difficult to tell from any of the photos, but one thing that can pull foals down is if they have developed an 'underneck' (ie too much muscle under the neck from having to stretch their necks down and then heads up to nurse). This often happens when the mare is deep in the body (ie short in the legs) and if the judge has *any* experience as an educated rider he/she might well be concerned about the possible long-term problems this may cause when the adult animal is required to work on the bit. It is surprising how many foal and youngstock exhibitors do not seem to be aware of this problem in their otherwise correct animals, although it is often the result of trying to add height by putting a long-legged stallion to a low-slung mare <sigh>.

Next time you show, ask the judge (in a polite non-hassly manner of course ) why he/she placed you where they did. A good judge -- whether it be hunter, sports horse, warmblood, riding horse or any other category -- should be able to tell you straight away, and if they can' t (or are unwilling to) then he/she is probably not that good anyway and you cn put it all down to experience.