What do you do with a gooddoer who is putting

Leo Walker

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
on weight on ad lib forage? I am a very, very firm believer in ad lib forage at all times. I also believed that if you fed ad lib forage they would learn to self regulate. Except mine isnt :( Hes a rising 4 yr old cob and hes out twice a day in an all weather turn out for an hour at a time, but he just stand still waiting to come in! He has ad lib hay/haylage. Its not quite hay but not haylage either but is clearly nutritious. He gets a wheel barrow full on the floor and a small hole haynet in case he runs out. He gets a large haynet stuffed at breakfast time. I'd rather it was loose but he gets fed for me. He also gets 500gms of Rowan Barberry Soft n Soak ready mash which is very low calorie etc. Hes gets about 150gms of high fibre nuts in a treat ball, and several huge parsnips hidden in his hay, loose and haynets. He also gets pro balance, lysine and 50gms of linseed. All he cares about is eating :( Its a running joke on the yard that you never see Frankies head over the door because hes always flipping eating!

Hes not 4yr old till the beginning of April and I hoped he'd put the calories into growing. Admittedly he has grown about 2 inches but hes also got fatter and I'm not happy that a youngster is carrying excess weight! He "works" about 4 times a week, usually longreining, and generally his brain is tired way before his body! Hes chaser clipped and unrugged as he was sweating buckets just stood in his box, so I've clipped him to make him more comfortable. He has a coat like a yak!

Before anyone comments about 24/7 turnout it isnt going to happen here! The fields are waterlogged and he wont stay in the mud paddocks behind electric, so I am quite happy with him having 2x turnout in the all weather turnout. And he really is happy and content with his current regime. His stable is in the barn with the indoor school in so he gets to see lots of interesting things, but he is definitely putting on weight, not massively, but enough for me to worry!
 
cut out the linseed, cut the mash, cut the parsnips (if you want to feed a succulent, try swede instead) mix forage in with some straw. or limit hay and leave a trickle net or similar with straw so he has something to nibble at. ad lib forage doesn't have to mean stuffing gob with both front hooves constantly, it means picking at stalky, low calorific forage regularly.

I have one who doesn't 'self' regulate although I didn't get him until he was 14 and massively fat. He simply can't have an all you can eat buffet because he just doesn't stop-can't feed him linseed either. he gets a mix of straw and hat, a straw chop with some fibre nuggets (literally 4/5) and some farrier's formula.
 
Swap some of his forage for oat straw? Or soak his hay? My good dooer drops rapidly on 24 hour soaked hay and oat straw whilst still being on ad lib forage.
 
I give him a decent bed so he can eat straw, which I'm pretty sure he does. Its a rip off trickle net he has overnight, just in case he runs out. He gets about 50gms of linseed, actually its probably less than that as its a 50gm scoop of pro balance which is much heavier!

I get ad lib haylage/hay and straw in with my livery so I'd rather not have to source anything else. I'm not keen on haynets at ALL as they buildup totally the wrong muscle, but I guess I'd rather deal with that than the other options! I'm genuinely taken aback at what an absolute pig he is! I thought all horses learnt to self regulate, but this one doesnt! He would literally eat till he popped!
 
I have one the same has no idea bout self regulating all he knows is eat, eat & way again!

i'd stop all hard feed. If you want 2 make sure getting vits etc give TopSpec Lite Balancer- been shown not 2 put weight on good-dooers

All hay in2 small holed haynets & well soaked. Yes it may build up muscle under neck but don't tie them up really high & working correctly will sort it.
If you not keen on trickle net shires now do one with same sized holes & look up martnets in ebay/Facebook they do nets with even smaller holes & loads if sizes. I've got a few of there nets & really slow horse down
 
As much as i would love to give ad lib food, for fatties it just does not work. My cob and shetland get turnout in the day and in at night but only one haynet each, trickle nets. i dont feed my cob any sort of real food, only a VERY small scoop of balancer to try and get some vits in and a handfull of herbal chaff to bulk it a little. its a token feed.
 
Sorry but if you want him to lose weight he has to eat less and move more I would be more concerned about his lack of movements than his face stuffing as he isnt building the muscle he needs and isn't using his bones and joints that he needs to be a healthy young ridden horse. He needs to be out a lot more preferably on a large grass field or a paddock paradise track, hay can then be dotted about so he has to move. If turnout isn't possible where you are for his sake you need to find him somewhere he can be out and about an awful lot more than he is at the moment. Oat straw is a fair solution but wont help if he isn't moving too
 
windand rain said:
sorry but if you want him to lose weight he has to eat less and move more i would be more concerned about his lack of movements than his face stuffing as he isnt building the muscle he needs and isn't using his bones and joints that he needs to be a healthy young ridden horse. He needs to be out a lot more preferably on a large grass field or a paddock paradise track, hay can then be dotted about so he has to move. If turnout isn't possible where you are for his sake you need to find him somewhere he can be out and about an awful lot more than he is at the moment. Oat straw is a fair solution but wont help if he isn't moving too
Click to expand...

agree with this
 
If it were me he would be getting hay soaked in a trickle net or elimanet and the hay tied in two or three places when turned out to make him walk in between.

I'd also be cutting out the feed except the pro balance sounds like he really doesn't need it. My coblet wasn't self regulating, she would have stood at a large round of hay until every little bit was gone, I put a normal square bale 7/8 slices) in the hay box one day and I was at the yard for less than two hours and she had eaten the full bale and was pawing at the gate for more. Had chased the TB away so he got none.
 
If you're worried about haynets, why not build/buy a slow feeder to go in his stable? If you make it yourself you can have the holes as small as you like. Although I agree with needing more movement, can you walk him in hand every day or longrein more? Or get more turnout? Or even looseschooling each day?
 
I am a big fan of my Trickle net, but I did have to tie it on the ceiling so it swings free and is more difficult to access.

As for the muscle, yes there is some build up, but when you ride correctly the under muscle relaxes and can't be seen. I too would prefer my horse eating off the floor, but the danger of being over weight is higher than muscle from haynets IMO. Plus, hay nets mean more dentistry as the teeth are used at the wrong angle.

Another vote for more work too. Weight control = less food and more work, and less rugs.
 
Replace some of the hay with chopped straw .
Stop all other food except the pro balance lysine and the 50 grammes linseed.
And use a trickle net .
 
I don't think I could let my Frankie have loose hay on the floor, he has standard small holed haylage nets and always has a bit left in the morning- I too would want them to have free access to forage. (he eats about 16lb 2pm-7am if that helps (he gets a second net at 10pm).

It isn't ideal for muscles but doesn't really seem to have done his much harm over the years- he really doesn't have an under neck build up at all. (excuse for summery picture!)
1498_10152919948405438_2033898304_n.jpg

He doesn't always wear his teeth quite straight but usually they pull hay towards the door so if you have a couple of different tie rings you can help account for that- and he has mostly had 6 monthly visits. Mum's mare fed the same has never had any teeth issues.

I would probably follow GS with regards to feeding too. def no parsnips!
 
Lesson the amount of mash you can feed for him still to eat the minerals. Drop the micronised linseed altogether - no good for a fatty.

He should be getting 1.5% of his body weight in hay to lose weight so get the weigh tape out. Also take photos of him now at his current weight and keep records.

Net all hay, and stop letting him eat his bed!!!! - if you need to get several of those tiny ruby ball nets and scatter about so he has to move to get it. Don't feed it loose if he's a gannet its pointless and you're just adding to the stress on all his internal organs.

Can he be walked out in hand/long lined/ ponied 3 or 4 times a week? horse walker?
 
are they getting fed in the all weather turnout?

If you still want to feed any mash their readyfibre mash is lower in calories.
 
Last edited:
FrankieCob said:
on weight on ad lib forage? I am a very, very firm believer in ad lib forage at all times. I also believed that if you fed ad lib forage they would learn to self regulate. Except mine isnt :( Hes a rising 4 yr old cob and hes out twice a day in an all weather turn out for an hour at a time, but he just stand still waiting to come in! He has ad lib hay/haylage. Its not quite hay but not haylage either but is clearly nutritious. He gets a wheel barrow full on the floor and a small hole haynet in case he runs out. He gets a large haynet stuffed at breakfast time. I'd rather it was loose but he gets fed for me. He also gets 500gms of Rowan Barberry Soft n Soak ready mash which is very low calorie etc. Hes gets about 150gms of high fibre nuts in a treat ball, and several huge parsnips hidden in his hay, loose and haynets. He also gets pro balance, lysine and 50gms of linseed. All he cares about is eating :( Its a running joke on the yard that you never see Frankies head over the door because hes always flipping eating!
Click to expand...

I am shocked by the amount of food this cob is getting!

Cut out all hard feed and cut down the hay by putting less in a couple of trickle nets. Increase his exercise too.

Last thing you want is to go into spring with an overweight horse.
 
About using nets I agree it's not ideal .
However it's far more important that the horse does not gain wieght.
Sometimes managing horses is about choosing what's the most important goal and in this situation that for me would be controlling wieght.
On the Linseed I would not stop this because its an excellent source of things horses need in winter and 50 grammes is not enough to cause an issue but the fibre nuts and mashey stuff you buy in a bag the would not get a sniff of it if it where mine .
As Amymay says if you keep them out at this time as year as long as its possible with no access to hay in the field they forage about and get moving.
 
Chocy said:
i'd stop all hard feed. If you want 2 make sure getting vits etc give TopSpec Lite Balancer- been shown not 2 put weight on good-dooers
Click to expand...

I'm afraid my good doer put's weight on with this, even when not feeding the full recommended amount.

I use a small cup of Fast Fibre (or if your horse wont eat it, half a cup of Spillers High Fibre Nuts) soaked in hot water (this makes it fluff much more) with a powered vit&min such as Equivite Original.

My elderly mare is an exceptionally good doer, living out on really poor grazing (it's lovely in the summer, when she is restricted, but obv crap at the moment) with a token feed for her supplements and medication and a small slice of small bale hay. She is clipped out (cushings) and rugged accordingly, but as little as possible if that makes sense.

I would definitely put the hay in net/s and also weigh it so that you know how much he is getting and to slow him down.
 
I'd measure out how much forage he should be getting, weigh that out, and stick it in a haynet. He might not have a constant supply to forage at first as he scoffs it, but they quickly become self-regulating...

When Smokes got chubby this summer (sudden influx of good grass and 3 weeks no work due to a minor injury) he got considerably less food than your little cob does, and he's a TB prone to going skinny. He got 2 haynets of hay, and half a scoop of good doer chaff in the morning and evening with some soaked pony nuts (the feed was very wet with this). Due to his background he is the type to be very prone to stomach problems (ex-racer and ex-polo pony!) yet this strict diet didn't trigger any problems...
 
I think you need trade off some time without food against ad lib, but soak all haylage to remove sugars, no sugars/molasses, and add the daily requirement for minerals and vitamins to his feed, fast fibre is very basic, or some other lite chaffy feeds.
It sounds as though he would do OK out 24/7 unrugged, with shelter, but this is not possible.
A young horse needs to be out and about, stabling is not good.
Is he strong enough to start breaking, if so I would get on with it. Even consider sending him somewhere else so he can get turnout, you may find someone willing to break him for you over a four month period, ie slowly, with daily field turnout, so you get back a good young horse in spring. This would be cheaper than sending one to be broken in six weeks as the handler can work away when it suits both parties [horse and handler].
 
Last edited:
My fatty eats the hay slower from the floor than a haynet. I think its because she doesn't panic about it so much and also because she can get straight to the good bits first. Then she often takes a break before coming back to the stemmier bits...with a haynet she never stopped until it was all done. I also buy coarse hay which she doesn't like so much and mix it in with nicer meadow hay so she has to forage to get the good bits.

I don't think you can always feed ad lib hay unfortunately. Would be nice to but with fatties they need to be limited. Mine gets hers as late as possible in the evening but she must still go afew hours with nothing. I feed a good probiotic to help reduce any digestive problems.
 
Soak the hay and double net it.
cut out all the extras just give the pro balance in fast fibre
make walk when turned out, if field turnout isnt possible. Even in hand walking for 40 min will help.
dont over rug
 
This is the feed hes on: http://www.rowenbarbary.co.uk/horse_feed_products/light_exercise/15

The 500gms is soaked, so dry weight its probably about 100gms. Works out to about half a round scoop after its been soaked. I could reduce it, but the supplements work out quite a lot of powder and it needs a fair bit to mix it in properly. Hes not getting linseed for weight gain, but for its other benefits, thats why he gets such a small amount.

Hes a proper HW and is roughly 450kgs, probably more on a weigh bridge. Hes going through roughly 10 to 12kgs of haylage a day, which is clearly too much! He isnt hugely fat, probably about a 3.5, you can still feel his ribs etc, but he is definitely putting weight on, albeit slowly, but its a long time till spring and if he carries on he will be fat.

Hes just shot up which is the reason hes not being ridden at the minute. His bum is a good 3" bigger than his withers. Hes long reined about 4 times a week, walking and trotting for 30 to 40mins. He is bone idle however! Total sterotypical ploddy cob! I'm working on it and he is learning to go forwards, but even turned out he just stands or occasionally ambles about. I loose schooled him today in an attempt to get him moving about and burning calories. Didnt really work, but I burnt off most of my xmas dinner :P

Hes also clipped with a chaser type clip and is unrugged. He was clipped because he was stood sweating in his box. Hes incredibly hairy!

I'm going to up the long reining, we have miles of off road tracks, including some big hills, so if he wont move voluntarily, hes going to have to move on the long reins! And it looks like all his hay is going in nets from now on. I've got one rip off trickle net, the other one is a normal big holed one, so I'll change them all to trickle net type nets. Theres always a fair bit left in the morning, so if I give him a bit less he will have to work a bit harder at whats left over.

Thanks for everyones input I want to tackle this now before it starts to be a problem :)
 
Last edited:
dollyanna said:
If you're worried about haynets, why not build/buy a slow feeder to go in his stable? If you make it yourself you can have the holes as small as you like. Although I agree with needing more movement, can you walk him in hand every day or longrein more? Or get more turnout? Or even looseschooling each day?
Click to expand...

Whats a slow feeder and how do I build one? :)
 
I feed my hay in a trickle net attached to a short piece of rope with a rope clip on the end, which hangs from the bottom of the manger, the net then sits on the floor. I pull it up tight and knot the string then thread it inside and to the bottom of the net and knot it through the holes, this then prevents it becoming possible to tangle feet in. It works well, floor feeds and prevents any wrong muscle development.
 
My mare is a greedy madam who, if she had ad-lib haylage (can't have hay due to dust) would be as wide as she is tall! She will quite easily eat 1 1/2 - 2 large square bale slices a night, plus more if she was in at night, so ad lib simply isn't an option for her - she gets enough that she has haylage most of the night but as much as I would love to she can't have ad lib.

Sometimes there isn't an option but to limit forage. I would definately cut out the linseed tho - hay/haylage, clean straw as an option to top up if he's hungry (Roo won't eat it) then chaff and your vit/min supplememtn should be everything he needs (I also use fibre nuts in a treatball to keep her occupied)
 
My fatty is and always has had soaked hay. Even in the depths of winter. I would alsways have some on soak for your boy. Soak the morning load during the night and the evening load during the day. Cut out the veg he doesn't need it. The vets told me every 8 hours cuts 20% of the calories but they advised not to soak former than 16 hours as the protein levels drop too much.
 
soaking isnt an option I dont think. I'm disabled and just wouldnt be able to lift the weight of wet soaked hay. I manage with haynets just, but if they were wet I wouldnt be able to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top