what do you expect/want from your trainer?

[Partoow]

I was thinking, like i sometimes do,when you go to a trainer what do you expect?
I will put this in context. I trained 'on the continent' and there training does not save your blushes. It is very clear that you must first face your own weaknesses before you can even think about training a horse. This is very tough in a self disciplined kind of way.
I therefore teach very much along the same lines and am always clear with people that if you expect to be told how wonderful you are and your horse 'must do this or that' , i.e it's the horse's at fault not yours, then i'm not for you.
I have watched a lot of other trainers as it is important to think about other approaches, but see a lot of "thats great well done'' and it clearly was'nt and they were too interested having either a chat with someone or just there in body not mind!!! Taking someone apart and rebuilding is hard work both mentally and physically for all involved. There seems to be a lot of 'jargon' and little explaination of these terms.
I know when i have training i expect to be taught and told the truth and get value for money.
Any comments on this?????

 

[Sarah_Jane]

I agree with your approach but have found with the odd trainer that they try and change too much too quickly. I know I have faults but at the end of the day I am an amature with limited time and resources. I am keen to improve but can only focus on improving a few things at once. If every fault is highlighted then I end up feeling demorilised.

My present trainers are not afraid to critise and improve me but also accept certain limitations or maybe the style of riding that suits me. So as long as trainers don't go over the top I don't expect to be told I'm wonderful!

 

[Llwyncwn]

Interesting post Partoow.

What I want from my trainer is to get me where I want to be. What I expect from my trainer is to teach me the correct buttons to press at the exact time I need to press them to enable me to connect with my girl. This is no easy task with me as a student due to age, lack of supplty and gravity! However, wanting to progress and being focused on where Im going means that I would be happy to do as I am told. My brain is a sponge and will soak up any amount of help and information a trainer can give me. I dont want to be told that Im wonderful but dont want insults either. Just tell me how it is and what I have to do, and I will do it. Dont know if any of this makes sense but Im sure you know what I mean.

 

[dozzie]

I think you have to read the situation. Some people can take this approach and some cant. Some will benefit and some could be destroyed and give up.

Id benefit!! Cant stand namby pamby! And I have the self-confidence to deal with it. But have a friend who would change instructors rather than be critcised too much.

The only thing I would add is that I would expect to be given clear reasons for changes required as this would help me to apply the changes correctly. This is sometimes a failing with instructors. They tell you what to do but not why and therefore it is difficult to know when to do the same if instructor is not present! If you get my meaning...

 

[Tempi]

I expect to be grilled and shouted at in my lessons!! I want my trainer to tell me exactly all MY faults and what i need to be doing to get the best out of my horse - if what im doing is crap he tells me its crap, which is the way it should be. I dont want to be riding around being told im doing well when im not - it would be a complete waste of my time effort and money.

I guess some people need positive encouragement tho, im just not that type of person. Yes when im doing it right of course my trainer tells me its good - i wouldnt go to a trainer who kept telling me i was doing well and wasnt paying full attention to the lesson.

One person whos always very straight talking is Dane Rawlins - ive watched him teach a few times now and he always says what hes thinking, and tells it like it is. He dosent go around telling his pupils how wonderful they are if they're not - which is something i admire about him.

 

[CSYMolly]

I think the difference is between those riders that just want to purely have a bit of fun and those that want results. I don't like soft instructors, I liked to be pushed but also like to understand why I am doing what I am doing and where I am heading. My current instructor is the only one I have had that has done this for me, at times it felt like all we were doing was going round in 20m circles for months on end but she wouldn't let me move on till the basics were established and rightly so!
For some people this is all a bit too serious.

 

[chriscrogul]

I have just changed instructors because unfortunately our "partnership" went sour after nearly 15 years. There were lots of silly little disagreements but the main thing was that I have a new youngster and I now have a lovely sharer for my older horse. He knows his job inside out but has retained his "Welsh" sense of humour. My sharer is polite and doesn't ask enough of him yet so he sees no reason to take the pee out of her. While having shared lessons with her I was constantly being belittled by my instructor ie Lad doesn't do any of the silly things with her, it's your bad riding blah blah. I gave it a few weeks to think things over (and to make sure I wasn't getting too sensitive in my old age), tried someone new and havn't looked back.
Sorry for straying from the point but I don't want anyone to tell me its good when its not but sarcasm and belittling have no place in training either!

 

[jumpthemoon]

I hate it when instructors say 'that was really good' when I feel it clearly wasn't, as I feel that I will not know if I do get it right, as they always say it's good anyway (if you get my meaning). I do like to be told if something is improving though, or I would feel a little disheartened I think. I want an instructor to tell me exactly what I am doing wrong and hat to do to correct it - there is no point just saying 'it's wrong', I expect and explanation of what should be done to correct it and why.

I think it is pointless to say something is good when it isn't, but if the pupil is showing signs of improvement, this should be mentioned, so they know when they are headed in the right direction. For some of us, if what we did had to be perfect, we would never get a nice comment in a lesson ever! I think this would be a bit de-motivating TBH...

 

[Eccles]

I want to be told exactly what I am doing wrong and why if I change something I am doing it will help me. On the other side of the coin if I feel that something is good and it looks good I need to know the positives too! I also need an instructor who can cope with my constant questions, some tend to want you to change something but then can't justify the change. I have no problem being shouted at, and told I am being rubbish as long it is balanced out with good comments - if I deserve them!

 

[Tempi]

Just to add that i think different people want different things - i train because i want to succeed in dressage and i want to get to Grand Prix level. Whereas someone who has a lesson once a month and is just a happy hacker is after something totally different than someone like me is (if you see what i mean).

 

[samp]

I expect my instructors to tell me if I am doing something wrong and then to explain things to me. I expect praise when I do something well of course. It helps to build your confidence after years of being with an instructor that never once told me I was doing something right, but was quick to shout if wrong.

 

[Stoxx]

When I have a lesson, I like to come out thinking that I have achieved something from it - not that we've gone over the same old things. My instructor likes the basic's to be spot on before moving on, and this is a good thing, however due to my horse's conformation his basic's won't ever be spot on (although that is what i strive for). I think it is important for an instructor to be straight and honest about what they are presented with, but also think they need to evaluate the long term goals for that particular combination.
Problems generally start from the rider not the horse so I think it is important to focus on the whole picture.
However when I do something right I need to be told that it is right or I'll think i'm wrong and try a different way.
I would love to go and have a lesson from an advanced rider but my horse and I are far from perfect and am worried about being belittled.

 

[miller]

I'm with PG on this - I want someone to shout at me and tell me what's what!

Partoow - you sound just what I need - where are you based??

 

[Baggybreeches]

I want someone who has my goals and objectives in sight when teaching me and also takes into account any strengths or weakness that may hinder or help us along the way.
I know that I am not perfect and have alot of room for improvement, but my goal of competing at a decent level in several disciplines must be achieved whilst still having fun otherwise its pointless.
I dont mind critiscm but also enjoy praise when it is deserved.

 

[Pasha]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with PG on this - I want someone to shout at me and tell me what's what!

Partoow - you sound just what I need - where are you based??

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto - you sound like just what I need!!! The trouble with me is that I analyse everything too much - give me someone who will just say STOP! Try this? Would be wonderful

 

[sfward]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The trouble with me is that I analyse everything too much - give me someone who will just say STOP! Try this? Would be wonderful

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally agree! I'm always blaming myself and trying to analyse over what I need to improve; I need someone who can guide that in a positive way, yes pointing out faults but also offering some encouragement so I don't get off and start self-flagellating!!

 

[LottieandMaisy]

I have had trainers from whom a compliment would have me ecstatic for days, but it could be quite grinding to keep working and working and never feeling like you were improving. My trainer now has just the right mix - he tells me when I'm doing things wrong and how to correct them and when it is better, he says so and when it's not, we look at it again. I am quite ambitious in dressage and want to be told when it's wrong, otherwise you don't improve, but a balance needs to be struck.

 

[Little_Mare]

I expect to be told what I'm doing wrong but I don't expect to be insulted e.g. "you need to sit up straight" rather than "you're sitting like a sack of sh!t" - but I do want to improve not have my ego stroked. I do pity some trainers when faced with some combinations - how do you politely deconstruct almost every element with tact?

I also think its very important that instructors/trainers appreciate the needs/aims of different riders.
I saw quite a few trainers in action at the regionals (I'm only on a small yard so don't get much chance of it) and saw examples from both ends of the spectrum. One in particular I thought was very scary but then I thought how mine might sound to others and decided he's probably quite scary too its just that I'm used to it now!

 

[Gonetofrance]

I agree, Partoow, if you are serious about learning then you need your faults pointing out, hard as it may be. But if you succeed to a degree, then even if the movement/jump isn't perfect, but much better than before, then you should be told "well done, that was better''. It may not have been great, but all significant improvement should be remarked on.
What I also look for, which is difficult to find, IME, is a trainer that can really read whatever horse I am on as well. It makes improvement much more rapid.

 

[LusoLover]

I'm afriad I have little time for trainers that tell me 'well done, that was great' when I know myself it was clearly awful. My old trainer, who sadly emigrated to Australia, would tell me when it was awful. But when on the rare occassion she did praise me, I knew I really had got it right and it meant so much more to me. That said, this trainer did also upset a few people by being quite blunt at times. Some do need to be molly coddled along, but I do believe only be being honest about your own weaknesses can you improve. Let's face it, the trainer isn't criticising you to be horrible, they are trying to help you.

 

[not_with_it]

I like to be told im fantastic

- but only when it is.

I like to feel as though ive worked after a lesson and done something to improve. Im not a wuss and can take critisism and prefer to be told when something isnt right. I also like something to work on after the lesson.
Im sure my instructor works me harder than everyone else, no one else leaves the yard as sweaty as me and my horse, and Gin is very fit. Im not complaining though as it obviously works.

Some people need a softer approach, especially if they lack confidence but IMO to progress you have to be told straight.

 

[Santa_Claus]

For me the best trainers are those that tell you its wrong when its wrong without making me feel like a complete idiot and priase you when it is right. Sadly so few seem to get the right balance. When i was young had the most amazing instructor, very old school and not afraid to tell you how it was, but he drilled into me the importance of flatwork for jumping and when I got a compliment from him it meant an awful lot and made me rather proud

Sadly he died a good 10 years ago now but his legacy lives on. One of his daughters is a very similar instructor for starters. But I also look at the horses he produced and bred. How many people can say their horse was so correctly produced you can put it in an arena having done nothing than hacked for 2 years and after about 10 mins produce a very correct elementary/medium test!! Well I know one of his who can still now having been a happy hacker since his death!!

I want results at the end of the day but I don't wish to be insulted. I don't mind being told when something is wrong, infact I encourage it but I want an extent of tact to be applied and more importantly how to correct the fault.

Although my current instructor is perhaps not blunt enough at times for my liking her teaching style works and I am getting results I can clearly feel.

 

[FREESTYLER]

I believe it all depends what the rider wants. I do not like to be told that was great when it was pants, tell me it was pants and explain how to correct it and what I did wrong! I believe riders should be taught about "feel". Sometimes you can be too technical and get bogged down with this without ever giving something a go, and I think you have "to do" to see if you get it right, if that makes sense! Most of the time it is the riders who unbalance the horses, impede their movement etc so I do think position is very very important but some people cannot adjust quicky, some may have physical disabilities etc so all these have to be took into consideration too. What I do see is people having lessons and a year down the road there is no improvement......... that is disheartening.... I think to teach you need to have expertise in psychology too!! For both horse and rider!

 

[Bossanova]

The truth and a logical explanation of how to improve horse and rider.
Most people dont want this though, they rate a trainer on how much praise they rec eive, without knowing it! Drives me mad.

 

[seabiscuit]

I'm so pleasantly surprised and really pleased to read that all of you guys like to be told whats what and not be told that everything is fantastic all the time. All I see round here is people being told how absolutely amazingly well they are doing things when they blatently aren't even improving one little bit!

I dont want any praise- like to know every single little detail if Im doing something wrong and how it should be done better. I only want to be told when Im beginning to do things the right way or when Ive done something really well combined with logical explanations. In fact I would LOVE to be trained in more of this continential style/regimented way that Partoow is talking about. But also important is that the trainer understands the horse and understands the horses mind and how to conduct a training session so that the absolute best is brought out of that horse, that also means stopping at the perfect moment when something has been done really well. Cannot bear trainers that want to go on and on and on and the poor horse is just exhausted and had enough! There are just too many trainers out there that go on for too long and dont know when to stop.

 

[carthorse]

You can only teach those that want to learn is true but are we all able to learn. Most want to learn but there bodies are not able to absorb changes too quickly.
Partoow ,you always think you are a task master ,when in fact you are a clear an sympathetic teacher[ even though my daughter feet were bleeding after last lesson.lol

 

[clipclop]

I like a trainer to be straight. I don't want to hear something is good if it isn't.

However, I don't like someone banging on the same instructions if it is quite clear I am not getting it. (I try ever so hard in my lessons) Then it is down to the instructor to make it clear. That is what I am paying for.

Sarcasm isn't a good use of time either.

I get the best results from someone who I am relaxed with and also I respect.

 

[Iestyn]

I would like you. I know it can sometimes be upsetting as I've experienced but I'm getting better and can now start to "feel" things. If it's one thing I can't get my head around is the jargon - explain it in English! Also, being a man, I can only process one or maybe 2 things at a time. Last week my instructor/trainer realised this and we went back to working on one thing at a time!

 

[Doublethyme]

The best trainers IMHO are those that can assess and mould to the personality and goals of their client. Some people can take the blunt, no nonsense approach, some can't and need a bit more "dressing" and encouragement.

Like others have said, I do not think there is any room for belittling and sarcasm in teaching. I think every instructor/trainer should have the thought foremost in their mind that if a pupil isn't improving/doesn't understand, then its their training that needs to be changed, not the pupil.

As others have said too, it really does depend on what your goals are. If you are a serious competitor then the harder approach may be more relevant. For many of us though, it is something we fit in between jobs/families etc and mainly for fun, whilst we want to do well and improve, we also don't want to spend vast amount of time and money just to be shredded to bits and bought to tears (have seen this many times with friends and a particular male instructor they used).

A bit of positive reinforcement goes a long way though, but just gaily going along and telling someone they are wonderful and brilliant when they aren't is also not right, so its a middle ground.

 

[Wishful]

The ability to tailor the lesson to the personality and ability of the student.

If someone is overcritical of themselves, it helps if the instructor is a bit more encouraging - you can do it - that was really good etc. The more self confident student may well need taking down a peg or two and properly ripped to shreds if they are getting too cocky.

I often find I need someone who will focus on putting me in the right position and getting the basics right - and drilling out any bad habits I may have acquired. But they also need to be able to push/encourage me to go further than I think I can - as I am quite nervous and find it easier to stay in my comfort zone. Quite often I will need a metaphorical kick up the behind to stop me being wet and pathetic about something. Skiing last week, it took a thunder storm to convince me I wouldn't die if I went more than 2 mph down (or rather across) the slope. I was more scared of the lightning than the speed, so I went faster and didn't die (even though I did manage to fall over and lose a ski in the process) so I had a lot more confidence after that point.

There has to be enough trust that the instructor can say "do this now" but the instructor also needs to explain why and when for future reference/memory purposes.